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Lord Varys

Details that should not be omitted...

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There are plenty of details in AGoT that might end up being omitted in the series, especially dialogue.

What are the things you would include?

[Actually, something I'm rather pissed about is the changed style of the King in the leaked pilot script: It's 'King of the Andals, and the Rhoynar, and the First Men', not 'King of the Andals and the First Men' - no one would be hurt if they had used the correct line.]

I'm worrying about the subtle hints indicating that Lysa was behind Jon Arryn's death - being Maester Colemon starting to talk about where Robert was to fostered, and Walder Frey talking about the same thing. Then there is Renly accidentally revealing Littlefinger's dagger lie in Ned's presence.

These things are really fun, especially during a reread, or rewatch.

One thing that could really need exploration is Renly and Loras plotting to install Margaery as Robert's new queen.

Then there are the things that a left ambiguous in the books. How exactly did Littlefinger betray Ned to Cersei, or how exactly did he (presumably) motivate Joffrey into killing Ned.

Could these events profit from a new scene showing some of the things happening behind the walls? Or do you want these things be better left entirely the way they are?

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Details that should not be omitted: Renly and Loras

...and additional scenes you would like to see: Renly and Loras.

Please, HBO? Y'know diversity and all that. Apart from I really don't care about diversity. But it would balance things out a little. So that's a yes then? Lovely.

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Honestly, I think that the reveal that Lysa killed Jon Arryn is going to have to come in the 1st season rather than the 3rd. It would really complete the arc to have the "reveal" towards the end of the season, running parallel to Ned blaming Cersei for the death. The dramatic tension would be amped up - but the viewers would be allowed to sympathise with Cersei; she is being blamed for a crime she didn't commit. It would be nice for the reveal to coincide with Littlefinger betraying Ned... because it would show just how dangerous he can be. He had one Hand killed, what about another? Also - for the reveal of the real killer to come 3 (or 4) years down the line (or not at all if the show got canned)... nobody would really care, there are much bigger fish to fry.

I think Renly and Loras should be explored more too.

I think that Cersei needs to be humanised a bit, at the end of the day she will become a central player and the audience HAS to care about watching her. She needs to be a bit like 'House' - we all know that he is a nasty piece of work, but a joy to watch.

I could do with cutting out bits and pieces from the Mountains of the Moon...

I think important details not to be omitted are bits of the history... Rhaegar, Ashara, Lyanna, Elia, Aerys etc. And how past events have really driven the story to where it is now. The backstory is essential.

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Hehe, I'm just thinking, they do not know the truth about our little theories here, mainly "R+L=J", do they? So they really can't omit any hints leading to or away from this (un)truth, each one may or may not be important :D

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So they really can't omit any hints leading to or away from this (un)truth, each one may or may not be important biggrin.gif

That's the advantage of having GRRM involved though. He can mention if something important is going to be left out.

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That's the advantage of having GRRM involved though. He can mention if something important is going to be left out.

Hehe, I'm already seeing the "R+L=J"-Threads overflowing with conclusions about hints and actually rather unimportant scenes that get still covered in the TV series.

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I hope they dont show Eddard as a "perfect hero", in the books he makes a lot of mistakes and is acting really stupid.

They also shouldnt forget about the antipathy between Catelyn and Jon, Cersei and Tyrion and Cersei and Robert.

characters who should play a (slightly) larger roll in the first season than they have in the book: Theon, Jaime, Tywin.

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I hope they dont show Eddard as a "perfect hero", in the books he makes a lot of mistakes and is acting really stupid.

He does stupid things, but as he is shown as the protagonist it tries to make people think he'd get away with it as his actions were honourable. Therefore he should be portrayed as the "perfect hero" whilst doing things which are idiotic in retrospect.

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Well, there are points that could be explored in the series:

Why is Mace Tyrell not at the Tourney of the Hand? What, exactly, does Tywin know about Cersei's plans to get rid of Robert, and what is reaction when he hears about Tyrion's abduction. He was likely pissed off, but how does he see Ned? We never hear Tywin Lannister talking about Eddard Stark.

But I would not like to see the truth about the Jon Arryn murder revealed in the first season. It would reveal the depth of Littlefinger's cunning to early, I think, and he needs to appear as a harmless jester for most of the time. I did not take him seriously after he betrayed Ned, and I think that is an important part of his story.

Also, the fact that some important secrets are simply not digged into because there is war, or most of the people who knew about them are dead, seems to be a crucial part of the series, I think.

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Well, there are points that could be explored in the series:

Why is Mace Tyrell not at the Tourney of the Hand? What, exactly, does Tywin know about Cersei's plans to get rid of Robert, and what is reaction when he hears about Tyrion's abduction. He was likely pissed off, but how does he see Ned? We never hear Tywin Lannister talking about Eddard Stark.

But I would not like to see the truth about the Jon Arryn murder revealed in the first season. It would reveal the depth of Littlefinger's cunning to early, I think, and he needs to appear as a harmless jester for most of the time. I did not take him seriously after he betrayed Ned, and I think that is an important part of his story.

Also, the fact that some important secrets are simply not digged into because there is war, or most of the people who knew about them are dead, seems to be a crucial part of the series, I think.

Do we know Mace wasn't at the tourney? Given his apparent lack of fighting ability, perhaps his appearance just wasn't significant enough to be mentioned?

I doubt Tywin knew that Cersei was going to remove Robert. She'd have to explain why and she didn't really have the time.

But yes, we should see more of Tywin given Jaime and Cersei should have a higher profile.

And I agree that it should be interesting to see how been honourable led to disaster.

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They need to protray ned as the perfect hero so that its more shocking when he checks out before the end of the season, for the I&F noobs.

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[modeator hat]

Please be very mindful of spoilers in these discussions.

Thank you.

[/moderator hat]

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[modeator hat]

Please be very mindful of spoilers in these discussions.

Thank you.

[/moderator hat]

In my view this thread is just one big spoiler (what would people expect from a topic specifically about details from the books besides details from the books?), therefore instead of lots of spoiler warnings it should just say it's a spoiler thread in the title as per my understanding of Xray the Enforcer's instructions.

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We need folk songs! Especially "The Bear and the Maiden fair", and the "Rains of Castermere". I imagine they involve bagpipes. And shawms.

On second thoughts, maybe we don't need the songs. :)

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Can't wait to see how subtly they handle Renly and Loras! And I'm also looking forward to the scene when Sansa betrays Arya after the direwolf debacle (butcher's boy). Those two actresses have their work cut out for them.

In later seasons, Arya's descent into psychopathy will also be fascinating to watch unfold.

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But I would not like to see the truth about the Jon Arryn murder revealed in the first season. It would reveal the depth of Littlefinger's cunning to early, I think, and he needs to appear as a harmless jester for most of the time. I did not take him seriously after he betrayed Ned, and I think that is an important part of his story.

I agree. Lost has done fine with not explaining major stuff for 5 seasons.

(Very minor spoilers)

For me, one of the fun things of asoiaf rereads has been the recognition of names dropped or characters introduced that will become (somewhat) important characters later on. Examples of this that occur in the first book/season are the mention of archmaester Marwyn by Mirri Maz Duur, iirc the mention of the commanders of the other Nightwatch fortresses. But also the introduction of recurring characters such as the Lannister captain of the guards in Kings Landing, Gyles Rosby, Harwin, Anguy the Archer, Mance Rayder, Edric Storm, ser Balon Swann, Balon Greyjoy and the Red Viper.

I find that these things add a big layer of depth to the story, at the small expense of a few throwaway lines and cameos/extras.

Ofcourse, when only one season gets made all this only serves as stuff for more the involved fans to appreciate.

Besides that, small details that meat up characters; Tyrion needing Bronn to strike a spark, "I smell bacon!", Robb scolding Theon, etc.

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