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Infidelity - when, if ever is it acceptable.


BigFatCoward

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My friends partner had a child 13 months ago and they haven't had sex since, does there come a time when it is basically ok to be unfaithful in these circumstances?

p.s. there is no medical issues, she just says she is too tired.

I think he has been a saint by waiting this long, but he is a much better person than i am.

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In college, I lasted 14 months in a relationship with a girl who wanted to wait until marriage and then she cheated on me by making out with another guy.

fwiw, he and she waited another five years to tie the knot without doing it, or cheating on each other.

It's never okay but I can GUARANTEE that once the decision is made, the person in question will have a million reaffirming rationalizations that will sound perfectly reasonable and justifiable to them. The spouse in question being cheated on doesn't really have a chance once that decision has been made that it's okay, even months before it actually happens. The cheater will just build up a personal little universe of reasons why its okay, many of them blaming the victim in some way. That's the best way to preserve and assuage the ego and avoid guilt, blame the victim and avoid responsibility.

Because the rationalization offered in your post is a blame the victim rationalization for infidelity--it turns the cheater into a victim in their own eyes--very neat, very common.

Is one year worth throwing away fifty?

is one night worth throwing away Eighteen thousand two hundred and fifty nights?

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My friends partner had a child 13 months ago and they haven't had sex since, does there come a time when it is basically ok to be unfaithful in these circumstances?

p.s. there is no medical issues, she just says she is too tired.

I think he has been a saint by waiting this long, but he is a much better person than i am.

She doesn't want him anymore, but is staying married because of the baby.

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Communication Breakdown. This may sound stupid/wrong, but I will say it nonetheless. If you are married/in a serious relationship with someone and then one person stops having sex with you, there is a reason. They no longer find you attractive or they are using it as a reward system which is also bullshit.

We usually get a lot of guys cheating on women because the women won't have sex with them anymore. Let's face it though, sex is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) parts in any relationship. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves.

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Guest Raidne

Uh, I guess I need a little more info. Like, maybe he's a stay-at-home Dad, so there's no possibility whatsoever that she's metaphorically dying under the load of having a new child without sufficient help from the spouse, or there's no chance whatsoever that she's suffering from PPD? That would make your position a lot more sympathetic.

In similar circumstances, I would hope my husband would be worried about me.

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I'm inclined to believe her. The baby's just over a year old. How are things like night-time feedings and changings split? Daytime care? Is she still breastfeeding? Hormones also play a factor, and can affect libido.

Ultimately, I'm thinking two things. They should discuss it in detail, especially if it's bothering either of them. Second, even if your friend has been complaining to you (and you never actually say he has, just that you can't imagine waiting), I'm not sure why you're asking us this way. It seems from here that you're going to find people to agree with you so that... What? you can tell your friend he's wrong for waiting? You can give him justification to cheat? (Unless it *is* about you and you're looking for that previously-mentioned justification.)

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Infidelity is never acceptable.

The very implication of the word is that there is a loss of trust.

If you don't want to be with someone, be adult enough to admit it. End the relationship then go out and shag anything that moves.

Your friend should talk to his partner, find out what the problems are, find out if he can help her to feel less tired and feel good about herself again.

If you love someone, if you want to be in that relationship that is what you do. Sex in a relationship is part of being together, part of showing how you feel for each other. It's something you work on together. If it's missing and one or both of you is bothered by that then it is a sign that something is wrong - that something may be fixable or it may not but going out looking for sex is not the way to fix it and it isn't going to compensate for the sex you had in your relationship. Fix the problem, find a compromise or leave the relationship.

Also, where children are concerned, so you really want to tell them that you were a cheat when they ask why you and their other parent split up?

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Let's face it though, sex is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) parts in any relationship. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves.

This is the chief reason why monogamy is ridicules. Attempting to find one person who not only suits all your needs but will suit all of them for the rest of your life is just plain silly, and the chief reason the overwhelming majority of long term relationships end up being a complete disaster that rarely end in lasting friendship.

Directly on topic: Breaking a core commitment of a relationship is never acceptable, regardless of what that commitment is. Asking when it is okay to cheat in a monogamous relationship is as foolish as asking if it is okay to move into your own place without informing your lover or spouse.

If you wish to revise your core commitments, you talk to the other person first. If they refuse to budge, then you decide if it is time to end it. If your lover flatly will not budge on something important to you, odds are your relationship is heading in a bad place. If talking about it has a chance of changing their mind, then by all means pursue the method and any other, but having to give up something important to yourself to maintain a relationship is poisonous in many cases.

That said, in a 'traditional' sexually monogamous relationship fulfilling the emotional and physical needs of your partner is a fine example of a core commitment. Saying “I just do not feel like having sex with you anymore, I recommend dealing with celibacy by increasing the frequency of masturbation” is no less a breach of the commitment then saying “I am moving in with a friend, they want me to help with rent, so I hope you can handle the mortgage on your own.” or “I am bringing home a German Shepard, time to get over your dog phobia” or “I emptied our bank accounts and I am going on vacation alone.”

It just shouldn't be done. Commitment is about compromise. In all the above cases one partner is telling the other that “This isn't important to me, and I do not care if it is important to you, or if you are distressed by my choice.”

I see no reason to be with such an individual, save for the sake of children, which is debatable.

This line of reasoning leads to an interesting argument. If one member of a partnership breaks a core commitment, what is the other's responsibility for keeping it? In such a case, I think I would inform my partner of the consequences of his choice. That because they were unwilling to uphold their half of the commitment in this particular area, I wasn't going to consider it my responsibility to uphold my own.

Pretty sure that however would just be another way of ending the relationship in most cases, it just might take longer to kick in.

Short answer: Explain yourself, your needs and desires. If your partner completely ignores them and refuses to budge, I think it might be acceptable to do the same so long as you inform them, but odds are the relationship is dead and accepting that is the wiser course of action. You just do not tell someone you love that you don't care about their needs and refuse to accommodate them.

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Infidelity is never acceptable.

Yeah, no.

This is a huge, huge problem I have with people, brought out with the Tiger Woods witch hunt. You can only ever have a valid opinion when it concerns you or your significant other. If you said infidelity was never acceptable for any relationship you were ever in, then that's fine. Commendable. That's cool, if that's the decision you make.

But stay out of my relationship, please. Stay out of everyone elses, too, while you're at it. Morals are very personal thing.

I'd be more upset by my wife giving me the silent treatment than I would if she simply wanted an orgasm when I wasn't around.

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It's not cheating if it's not against the rules of the relationship. Under the circumstances, I think it would be entirely reasonable for him to discuss with her whether the rules should be revised.

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I'd be more upset by my wife giving me the silent treatment than I would if she simply wanted an orgasm when I wasn't around.

If you're happy with that and she knows that you're happy with that then it's not infidelity - she wouldn't be breaking a trust that you expect her to keep

Saying that infidelity is not acceptable is not interfering in your relationship.

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Yeah, no.

This is a huge, huge problem I have with people, brought out with the Tiger Woods witch hunt. You can only ever have a valid opinion when it concerns you or your significant other. If you said infidelity was never acceptable for any relationship you were ever in, then that's fine. Commendable. That's cool, if that's the decision you make.

But stay out of my relationship, please. Stay out of everyone elses, too, while you're at it. Morals are very personal thing.

I'd be more upset by my wife giving me the silent treatment than I would if she simply wanted an orgasm when I wasn't around.

But have you told her that? If it's an agreed thing between you, I wouldn't then call acting on that agreement infidelity. Not that I'm asking if she'd tell you if it happened; that's different. Just that it would, I imagine, be an act within an agreed-upon framework, and therefore isn't infidelity.

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But have you told her that? If it's an agreed thing between you, I wouldn't then call acting on that agreement infidelity. Not that I'm asking if she'd tell you if it happened; that's different. Just that it would, I imagine, be an act within an agreed-upon framework, and therefore isn't infidelity.

Ok, ok, but we're talking semantics, right?

When we say infidelity or cheating, we mean ejaculating from genital friction with someone other than your mate, right?

We don't have 'an agreement,' but she knows how I feel. We communicate and stuff. I want to make this undeniably clear, though... anyone who expects monogamy from someone else is being pretty damn unreasonable. It is irrational to want to own someone else's pleasure. Jealousy is pretty crazy stuff, and that's the only reason to ever want someone you love to not experience pleasure. (I say this as someone who has been monogamous for 10 fucking years next month, by the way, so I'm a complete fucking hypocrite.)

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Ok, ok, but we're talking semantics, right?

When we say infidelity or cheating, we mean ejaculating from genital friction with someone other than your mate, right?

No, or I'm not. I'm using the definition given above, which is doing so without the prior knowledge and consent of the person/people you're in the relationship with. There are of course other ways to break trust, but for this thread I'm using "infidelity" as a shorthand for breaking that trust through sexual or intimate acts. Doing something you've previously agreed on isn't breaking trust, unless you've superceded it with a new agreement.

And felice and tenalpia have both also specified that they're using "infidelity" to mean "outside the agreements of a relationship", not just "sex with someone not your spouse."

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We don't have 'an agreement,' but she knows how I feel. We communicate and stuff. I want to make this undeniably clear, though... anyone who expects monogamy from someone else is being pretty damn unreasonable. It is irrational to want to own someone else's pleasure. Jealousy is pretty crazy stuff, and that's the only reason to ever want someone you love to not experience pleasure. (I say this as someone who has been monogamous for 10 fucking years next month, by the way, so I'm a complete fucking hypocrite.)

I'm not sure I disagree with the cold logic behind this, but I'd say a sustaining a relationship during a long time without things like fidelity, trust, commitment, and a certain measure of exclusivity must be pretty hard.

If we consider sex in a total vacuum, as a sort of collaborative masturbation, then I think you could be right, but if we consider sex as an act of bonding, of intimacy, of sharing affection... that's a pretty big deal the cheated party is missing out on.

If you pay a prostitute for sex and don't remember what their face looked like the next day, then that's unlikely to affect your relationship too much (provided your partner isn't jealous or doesn't find out), but normal people don't usually enjoy being treated like that.

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No, or I'm not. I'm using the definition given above, which is doing so without the prior knowledge and consent of the person/people you're in the relationship with. There are of course other ways to break trust, but for this thread I'm using "infidelity" as a shorthand for breaking that trust through sexual or intimate acts. Doing something you've previously agreed on isn't breaking trust, unless you've superceded it with a new agreement.

Ok, I just.... to me?

Taking a child away from the other parent, that's breaking a trust. No exceptions.

Not being there for your spouse when they get sick or injured or go off to war or lose their job or any other major life-changing event, that's 'breaking the trust'.

Not siding with your mate against an outside force of some sort, that's 'breaking the trust.'

People do things a lot more reprehensible than sex could ever be all the time. There are a slew of women and men on these very forums that say horrible things about their spouses. Just venting, people will say. I think sex is just a release, but thinking and expressing hateful thoughts is ten times worse than showing love to an additional person could ever be. Am I insane?

It blows my mind that people think sex is the unforgivable crime, whereas publicly demeaning your fucking LIFE PARTNER is a common event.

I genuinely think this sex thing is completely overblown.

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but if we consider sex as an act of bonding, of intimacy, of sharing affection...

That's some ridiculous hallmark movie nonsense right there. :P

ETA: Just so I'm clear... bonding occurs through communicationand shared experience, not genitalia-meld. It might seem like a huge bonding experience if you haven't had many lovers, but the bedroom is not where a solid relationship is forged.

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This is a big moment for me, and Stego should probably take a screenshot as a keepsake but... I completely agree with Stego. I don't particularly want my spouse having sex with another person, but I in no way think its reasonable to expect a person to forgo a year of sex because I'm tired or don't feel like it. This obviously doesn't apply in the case of illness or mental distress. And I definitely don't think its as simple as ending the relationship and finding another one. It seems the obvious solution, I know, but relationships aren't always that simple.

Obviously, a person calls what is acceptable or not in their own relationship, but I think we should probably lay off the definites when it comes to other people.

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That's some ridiculous hallmark movie nonsense right there. :P

You only say that because you've never been in love. :P

ETA: Just so I'm clear... bonding occurs through communicationand shared experience, not genitalia-meld. It might seem like a huge bonding experience if you haven't had many lovers, but the bedroom is not where a solid relationship is forged.

*shrugs* Isn't sex communicating and sharing an experience? Don't you kiss your sex-partner? Hug them? Try and make them feel nice? Ask them what they enjoy and what they don't? I indeed haven't had many lovers, though, you're certainly right about that. Does there come a point where sex becomes merely physical relief? Is sex equally pleasurable when devoid of an emotional connection?

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