The Desert Spear by Peter V. Brett

[Keledar]

Then every leader of every pre-modern army, and (many modern ones) are all rapists!

If the leader specifically tells their men that they can go and rape anyone they want, then yes, I would say that they are rapists. I am not saying that it didn't happen. Just saying that it is an evil thing and men who would do so are evil people.

[jurble]

Then, again, every pre-modern and many modern army leaders are evil by that definition. Rape was a tool of war, you kill the men, and rape the women. That's just how war worked (and still works in many places).'

edit: Like, I'm not pro-rape. But I'm not going to consider Julius Caesar an evil man just because his men raped Gaulish women, as an institutionalized part of warfare.

[Keledar]

I believe your comparison of Jadir to Julius Caeser to be a rather apt choice. I would even say that he could be summed up by looking at any dictator that invaded other countries or oppressed his people, such as Hitler or Pol Pot.

When reading a fantasy book I like to place myself in the position of all the characters, even minor ones, in order to become engrossed in the story. With this story I saw it from the point of view of Jadir at the beginning as the author outlines his life and the choices he made, but I also tried to view it from the perspective of the people of Fort Rizon.

I would like to offer you a possible senario of what it was like for the people of Fort Rizon. Consider yourself to be a Father with a wife, 13 year old daughter and 11 year old son living in a small house in Fort Rizon.

One morning you are having breakfast with your family when suddenly you hear loud noises and screaming coming from outside, but before you can investigate your front door is kicked in by 2 of Jadir's soldiers. They rush in and subdue you, pinning you to the ground where one of them holds you in place. Your wife rushes over and the other soldier punches her in the face knocking her against the wall where she slumps down unconscious. Having seen his mother attacked, your son picks up a knife and attacks the soldier, maybe even gets in a lucky swing, cutting the soldier. The soldier reacts by stricking out at your child with his spear, stabbing him in the chest. He them falls to the ground in front of you drowning in his own blood as he tries to breathe with a punctured lung and dies there in front of you. Kicking your son off to the side they then grab your daughter and bend her over the kitchen table and take it in turns to hold you down and brutally rape her. You are held there and forced to listen to her wimpers and crying, maybe she even screams, whilst you can do nothing. After they have had there fun with her they drag your family out into the snow and dump you there whilst they gather your sons body and throw him into a pile with hundreds of other bodys.

I now wonder if you would stand before Jadir (or Julius Caeser for that matter) and say 'no hard feeling, your not an evil man for doing this, its just an "institutionalized part of warfare"'.

These people witnessed the murder of their fathers, sons and husbands, and the rape of their mothers, daughters and wives and I must say that I am disturbed that people would find it acceptable as a tool of warfare and dismiss it as inconsequencial just as Leesha chose to do in this book. When allowing the rapes to occur, Jadir destroyed the lives of many of those women. Based on current statistics approximatly 1 in 10 of them would have killed themselves and 1/3 would condider suicide and the majority would spend the rest of their lives in a state of depression and misery. These are the attrocities of war that he committed when he took his army across the desert to invade a peaceful city and I believe that this makes him an evil man (or at the very least a sociopath willing to inflict misery and suffering on others to further his own goals, which isn't a lot different to me). Looking at it from this point of view made it almost impossible for me to feel any empathy for Jadir or even Leesha. It was Jadirs choices that led to the suffering and misery that these people experienced although I do find it quite sad that he chose to head in this direction. Leesha I would just dismiss as being inconsequencial, just as she dismissed what had happened at Fort Rizon as being fabrications and not worth looking into.

I would like to reitterate that I am not saying that these things shouldn't have been put in the story because they do portray a realistic view of what would have happened. What I am saying is thats its easy to accept and even dismiss evil when you just look at the statistics or historical facts and not look at the humanitarian side of the story and place yourself in the shoes of the victims, looking at the suffering and misery that occurred.

Also i would like to add that the mass rape of women is considered to be a crime against humanity by the United Nations and there are Military Generals being indicted for these war crimes at the moment.

[jurble]

But Leesha dismisses it because everyone does it. She's living a medieval society, she got raped while on a god damn road. The idea that an army wouldn't rape people is what she would consider odd. Like, if you were a woman in a society where bride kidnapping was a major source of spouses, when you got kidnapped, you would probably feel shock, and dismay and all that shit, but you wouldn't completely lose it. It's not even like Stockholm, in this case it's quicker - your mother would have been a kidnapped bride, all your aunts, your sisters were kidnapped by men from another tribe, etc. It's terrible to us, in this society, but it was normal to them.

That's not a good normal, but to them it's no different. Like, I saw on Nat Geo about Kenneth Good and that Yanomamo woman - she was from a society where women with no husband were routinely raped. In fact, she was raped when a rumor spread among the Yanomamo that Kenneth Good had died (he had married her). He took her to America, had two kids with her, but it talked about how like, she was upset by female police officers. The idea that women could have power over men or be equal to men wasn't empowering to her. It actually frightened and upset her. She ended up leaving Kenneth Good and returning to the forest - where, without a husband, she was undoubtedly raped. She knew she was going back to rape, but she did it because it was her normal, and our society wasn't.

Leesha is like that, she can dismiss Jardir's army raping people because they're actions are her normal. To the people getting raped by Jardir's men, it's terrible, but to third parties, it's a fact of life.

[Renasko]

That's not correct, though. The world Leesha is living in is not one torn by human vs. human warfare. You can't include human actions like rape as something she would accept as common. I'm terribly disappointed with the direction Brett took the character.

[Keledar]

I also don't believe that rape was an accepted part of Leesha's society. The men of her village or the free cities are not running around raping women at will when ever they feel like it.

But the main reason I was disappointed in the character of Leesha was that she is outraged at what is happening to the people at Fort Rizon right up until she meets Jadir. As soon as she talks to him it no longer matters what he has done or will continue to do because she wants to jump in to bed with him. She is willing to ignore any attrocity so that she can happily do so. The fact she found him to be this attractive wonderful person knowing that he is responsible for the death and rape of thousands of people shows just how shallow she really is.

The author can write his characters how ever he want them, but I felt that it was because she was able to see past a lot of the small mindedness of the villagers and was willing to defend the innocent and help people, that set her apart. In the end there was nothing particularly special about her.

[Joanna vander Poele]

Uhh.. I liked The Warded Man, with minor quibbles to some of the language, but Leesha's rape and her reaction to Arlen was definitely off-putting. There was also something weirdly unsavoury about the majority of her chapters dealing with her virginity and baaaabies.

Guess I will pick up The Desert Spear (as the first book was still admittedly great fun), but not looking forward to the rape. Still better than hobbling, though.

[Tyrone Biggums]

So I just finished this book...a few things.

First, I hope Leesha gets killed, sorry but she changes her mind/attitude so much in the book that I found myself hating her more and more. Yes I get you like Jadir, but she doesn't bat an eye at what his people do...but whatever cause Renna is bad ass now. Loved reading her chapters, seeing at least 1 character in the book develop over time. Third book is going to be crazy.

And whats the difference between Arlen and Jadir? They both have wards on their bodies, is it the fact that Arlen survived on demon food and has absorbed more magic?

On another note, I can't wait for the third book. Arlen and Renna, the Warded Man and Woman now, bad ass murdering demons left, right and center. Going to be fun to read...

Also, what can stop Arlen now? Dude can basically teleport at will. I really hope the book is released before 2012...Too far away...

Maybe DWD will be out by then.

[Inigima]

First, I hope Leesha gets killed, sorry but she changes her mind/attitude so much in the book that I found myself hating her more and more. Yes I get you like Jadir, but she doesn't bat an eye at what his people do...but whatever cause Renna is bad ass now. Loved reading her chapters, seeing at least 1 character in the book develop over time. Third book is going to be crazy.

On another note, I can't wait for the third book. Arlen and Renna, the Warded Man and Woman now, bad ass murdering demons left, right and center. Going to be fun to read...

Also, what can stop Arlen now? Dude can basically teleport at will. I really hope the book is released before 2012...Too far away...

I'm excited, but I don't think things are as rosy as you think. Renna's gone wild, and Arlen could be sucked into the Core any day now.

[Stubby]

I enjoyed this one, but I agree that the rape card was overplayed.

I like PVB's wordbuilding and think this was a solid middle book. I know its a 5 book series but in that case its the first of 3 middle books. Jardir needed to be fleshed out and the flashback sequence worked.

The Jardir POV of the relationship with Arlen was cool. Overall, Jardir seems to be becoming more and more like the greenlanders while Arlen is getting wilder and wilder.

[drawkcabi]

Just finished both books. Loved The Warded Man all the way through though I was bothered a bit by how Leesha's rape was written. With The Desert Spear, at the halfway point I became disgusted with Brett and all his rape.

With the first book while I really enjoyed it I got the feeling Brett had a lot of issues with bullies and being bullied but it made for good storytelling. When the corelings finally started getting their asses kicked those were some great "Hell yeah!" moments.

Now though, with the second book I sense he's got serious woman issues too and that's a detractment to the story. There's a mysoginist streak running through this series that is very off putting.

I know bad things happen to the guys too but the way women are treated and how the characters are portrayed, Leesha in particular, leaves me feeling Brett doesn't have much respect for them.

It makes me feel guilty that I did enjoy the rest of the book, not as much as TWM but enough that I'm still looking forward to reading The Daylight War. Also Brett does leave room to redeem himself with his writing and treatment of female characters, I thought I saw a little of that at the very end of the second book, I hope he keeps it up, but I still am not comfortable with a lot of the treatment of characters in the book.

I guess were still coding the spoilers so...

If TDS and TDW have to be two books then I'm glad Jardir and Arlen did not meet at the end of the second book. By the midpoint of the book it seemed Jardir would be on even footing with Arlen in regard to power. Jardir had his tatoo wards and was power-upped by demon magic, but at the end when Arlen fought the coreling prince and tapped into his mind, he power-upped again to a whole new level. Got to be careful here though, Arlen is all ready a Gary Stu, but it's been working so far, for me anyway, I like his badassness, and if he's to be The Deliverer then a certain uber powerfulness is necessary, but Brett needs to balance Arlen's new powers with keeping his character interesting to read.

I think the way the coreling princes referred to them is a clue as to how things will turn out. I know that the princes considered both to have the possibility of being described by these terms but towards the end of the book Jardir became "The Unifier" while Arlen became "The One" (Maybe Keanu Reeves will play him in the movie? Yeah, it's been optioned).

So maybe Arlen will be The Deliverer with his power and strength greater than any other coreling buster while Jardir will be the Unifier bringing all the humans together to fight the demons. Jardir's attitude is changing toward greenlanders, it showed from close to the begining of the second book that a lot of the things he did was due to being manipulated by another of Brett's eeevil women, so possibly part of the way Jardir will unify will not be as he originally intended. He may increasingly accept the cultural differences between the Krassians and the greenlanders, he all ready started with his "Hollow tribe" and if Leesha gets back some of the character she had in the first book her influence on Jardir will enable him to make greater changes in his mindset of how people should be treated, maybe even reforming the more despicable elements of Krassian culture for people who were born into it.

So Arlen and Jardir have the big confrontation in book 3, maybe when he sees just how powerful Arlen is now it will shock Jardir into accepting he is not the Deliverer and when Arlen sees how Jardir has changed/is changing and learns more specifics of why Jardir betrayed him, Inevera's part in it and all, he'll forgive Jardir and this is when Jardir as The Unifier becomes Arlen's general in the demon war.

Of course I could be totally wrong about all this.

Anyway, I loved the coreling prince battles at the end of TDS, especially Arlen and Renna's. It seemed to me what happened at the very end was important because it showed Renna becoming Arlen's anchor in the human world and that he had a balance to the core's temptation and it was now something Arlen need not be as concerned about. I liked that. I do think the ending was too abrupt though, but again I'm glad the Arlen/Jardir confrontation was not put in this book, but a bit more foreshadowing of it in an epilogue could have been made to work nice.

[Jussi]

The Daylight War plot synopsis:

Continuing the impressive debut fantasy series from author Peter V. Brett, The DAYLIGHT WAR is book three of the Demon cycle, pulling the reader into a world of demons, darkness and heroes.

Humanity is fighting back. Although the night still belongs to the demons that arise as the sun sets, new wards and weapons are giving those willing to fight in the darkness a chance to retaliate against their core-spawned enemies.

But, as humanity is about to learn, not all monsters are confined to the dark.

Civil war ravages the north and south, battles fought between those who should be working together. It is up to Arlen – the Painted Man – and Jardir – the self-proclaimed Shar’Dama Ka, the Deliverer – to put aside their differences and bring their people to terms if they are to have any chance of saving their civilisation from demon-rule.

http://www.waterston...ht+war/8676442/

[Sci-2]

Leesha's mischaracterizations ruined the novel for me.

[Calibandar]

That 2013 release date is not encouraging. No confirmation yet on a final date I know, but the facxt that Amazon is now also moving to 2013 is a bad sign.

[Stego]

edit: Like, I'm not pro-rape. But I'm not going to consider Julius Caesar an evil man just because his men raped Gaulish women, as an institutionalized part of warfare.

Not considering Julius Ceasar an evil man means you probably don't know much about him.

ETA: Also, Peter is working on the book and completing scenes. I would not consider Amazon's opinion on the matter.

[RedEyedGhost]

I really hope that 2013 date is wrong, but I have plenty of other books to read so it's not a big deal.

This from a recent interview doesn't appeal to me all that much:

In The Daylight War, the primary protagonist will be Inevera, who will get the full childhood-through-adulthood POV treatment. By the time events sync back to the present, readers will have a clear understanding of Inevera’s motivations and moral compass, showing her reasons for some of the mysterious and scary things she had her hands in during The Desert Spear. the other main POV’s will be Renna Tanner, Abban the khaffit, and Leesha. Arlen, Jardir, and Rojer will have brief POV sections, but their actions will mainly be described as witnessed by others. In at least one scene, all of the above will be in the same place at the same time.

That's a lot of female POVs for an author that doesn't do that well with female characters... maybe that's what's taking so long? With any luck Inevera's opening section won't be nearly as long as Jardir's was in tDS.

[Calibandar]

REG

Not very encouraging that either. Pretty much the opposite of what I was hoping to read actually.

[Grack21]

So, this isn't a trilogy anymore I take it?

[aidan]

So, this isn't a trilogy anymore I take it?

It was never meant to be a trilogy. Brett signed a three-book deal with Del Rey, but he always stated his intentions to write more volumes beyond those three.

[RedEyedGhost]

REG

Not very encouraging that either. Pretty much the opposite of what I was hoping to read actually.

Yeah, I'm not nearly as excited about it as I was before I read that interview. Arlen's POV has been by far the best part of the books, and Rojer saw too little time in tDS - so I was really wanting to see much more of them.

It was never meant to be a trilogy. Brett signed a three-book deal with Del Rey, but he always stated his intentions to write more volumes beyond those three.

It was called The Demon Trilogy for quite awhile in parenthesis after the books' titles on amazon, B&N, tBD, etc. up to a few months after tDS came out. That must have been when Del Rey gave him the extended deal? Then it was switched over to The Demon Cycle.