The Others in the pilot: heard but not seen

[spikebrennan]

I predict that in the Prologue part of the pilot episode, the Others will be heard and not seen-- except possibly for the briefest and blurriest of glances. Like the shower scene in Psycho, we'll see Ser Waymar and his companions being frightened and reacting, and perhaps Will's disembodied head tumbling to the snow, but we won't actually get to see an Other.

[Ran]

According to all reports I've seen drawn from what was alleged to be a draft of the pilot's script, that's exactly how it will play out.

[FilliamHMuffman]

I don't like that approach. I think it was important that the prologue of Game of Thrones established that the series takes place in a fantasy setting rather than a quasi-historical one. While it is somewhat incongruous with the subject matter of the first few hundred pages of the book, it allows us to suspend our disbelief when supernatural elements become more prominent in the story later. If the Others are not seen in the first scene, I fear that when the wights and dragons appear, it will be a jump the shark moment for the show, like what happened with Seaquest's second season.

Not showing the Others might keep the budget down, but it would not be the correct creative choice.

[Paxter]

According to all reports I've seen drawn from what was alleged to be a draft of the pilot's script, that's exactly how it will play out.

The draft of the pilot's script that I have seen involved something quite different - according to that version of the pilot we will get to see the Others in quite some detail :dunno:. Of course, even assuming that that version of the script was authentic, it may have been changed significantly since then.

[Guest Other-in-Law]

Not showing the Others might keep the budget down, but it would not be the correct creative choice.

Not seeing them at all doesn't seem right to me, but a brief and blurry flash that's enough to establish 'oh shit, these guys aren't human!' seems just right. Like 5 seconds worth of sighting, enough to be endlessly replayed on tivo, DVD, Youtube, etc and studied with fascination.

[Alexia]

If the Others are not seen in the first scene, I fear that when the wights and dragons appear, it will be a jump the shark moment for the show, like what happened with Seaquest's second season.

The wights appear in the first scene -- Ser Waymar is wighted and kills Will.

Not seeing them at all doesn't seem right to me, but a brief and blurry flash that's enough to establish 'oh shit, these guys aren't human!' seems just right. Like 5 seconds worth of sighting, enough to be endlessly replayed on tivo, DVD, Youtube, etc and studied with fascination.

I like the idea of brief flashes. I'm afraid of an actual alien looking somewhat ludicrous (have never seen one yet that withstood the suspension of disbelief) so I'm hoping that they either have really good costumes or that they don't focus in on them.

[Liadin]

They were described in some detail in the book, so I don't see any reason to be so mysterious about it in the show. If it's a matter of not having silly-looking creatures.... does anyone really doubt that there will be lots of Others in the final book(s) that the show would have to deal with if it were to get that far? Not to mention the one Sam kills--it was stationary and the subject of everyone's attention for more than long enough to get a good look at it.

[Guest Other-in-Law]

Well, the title of the thread refers to the pilot, so neither Sam nor whatever final battle happens will be therein.

I'd say the gold standard of non-cheesy supernatural monster depiction in cinema is the Balrog scene in RotK. We get a pretty good idea of what it looks like, but it's mostly brief flashes and there's a lot of obscuring going on. And the entire thing doesn't last very long, more time spent on the tense buildup than the monster itself.

I think it's a familarity breeds contempt issue... the more screentime, the less impact it seems to have.

[DizoakiusMaximus]

I agree with the "jump the shark" comment; for people who have no idea about the series, how will they react when all types of supernatural stuff starts cropping up?

To put The Others, even just the briefest of glances, in the prologue scene allows the viewer to know for sure that this isn't just HBO's version of The Tudors.

Like I said, it doesn't have to be a lot of screentime for them, just enough to see Waymar get wighted and then just icy fingers and Waymar's frost encrusted face as he strangles Will. (Btw for some reason, I always envisioned The Others as looking like Nazgul did when Frodo was wearing the ring, so I'm interested (VERY interested) in seeing what they look like according to GRRM/HBO.

[FilliamHMuffman]

The wights appear in the first scene -- Ser Waymar is wighted and kills Will.

That's not the way it's written in the pilot script. Will doesn't hide in a tree, and the Others kill Waymar and Will at the same time, although their deaths happen off-screen

[Alexia]

That's not the way it's written in the pilot script. Will doesn't hide in a tree, and the Others kill Waymar and Will at the same time, although their deaths happen off-screen

Oh, wow. I hadn't read the pilot script (would rather see everything brought to life before me for the first time) so I hadn't known. :dunce:

I'm not sure how I feel about that actually. It seems that the prologue was a good way of establishing the existence of scary zombies and aliens - seems rather jarring for the zombies to show up later. I think it was probably better to know about them all the time, especially when Benjen has gone missing and Ghost finds those bodies.

[daimonion]

I think just showing some hints of the Others so that theres no doubt that this isn't simply a fictional european middle age-world, is the right thing to do. But no more than that, because it might give people the idea that it's more fantasy-ish than it really is. So a middle of the road-thing like this is probabably most appropriate.

[Edward the Great]

I'm afraid of an actual alien looking somewhat ludicrous

Ever seen Alien or Aliens? The trick with Alien was to have a fully formed, detailed creature that is only shown in brief flashes (or focusing on a narrow part of the body) until the end of the story. Something that makes people go "Oh my God, what the fuck was that?"

[The Pita]

But at the end of the story, it looks ridiculous. That huge head on the tiny body looks really stupid.

[The Mance]

The trick with Alien was to have a fully formed, detailed creature that is only shown in brief flashes (or focusing on a narrow part of the body) until the end of the story.

See, I actually hate it when they do that. I want to see what the fuck it is I'm looking at right from the start. When a movie has me playing peekaboo with brief, shadowed, close-ups of a monster's ankle all that says to me is, "we really didn't have the budget to produce an effect that would stand up to the visual scrutiny of a sustained full screen shot."

[Edward the Great]

I am sensing a generation gap here.

[DizoakiusMaximus]

I am sensing a generation gap here.

Yeah, really.

If you saw the full image of the Alien (which is from 1979 btw) you would have known it was just a 7 foot tall Nigerian dude in a rubber suit.

By only showing partial shots, close ups, and with good lighting use you can both make the audiences fear and tension for this unknown and dangerous alien grow to enormous proportions. Like Spielberg did with the shark in Jaws, you don't show everything all at once, for good reasons.

[The Mance]

I am sensing a generation gap here.

You're probably right. You kids these days[/codger] have been so spoiled by the ubiquitous cgi effect that not ever getting a good satisfying look at the Feature Creature probably does seem artfully deliberate. :P

But trust me, having grown up watching movies in the '70s and '80s, it wasn't always so endearing. Not that that approach can't be done well, and Alien is probably one of the better examples, but more often than not it was a symptom of poor effects and a limited budget.

[DizoakiusMaximus]

You're probably right. You kids these days[/codger] have been so spoiled by the ubiquitous cgi effect that not ever getting a good satisfying look at the Feature Creature probably does seem artfully deliberate. :P

But trust me, having grown up watching movies in the '70s and '80s, it wasn't always so endearing. Not that that approach can't be done well, and Alien is probably one of the better examples, but more often than not it was a symptom of poor effects and a limited budget.

Ah, I gotcha.

Yeah I wouldn't expect them to go the Ray Harryhausen route with The Others, especially with a reportedly estimated budget of 4.5 mil per episode.

I just don't want them to go overboard in the first scene is all, just keep the exposure down to the bare minimum to convey that it was something other than a MAN killing these NW's rangers.

[Andhaira]

Not showing the others would be a cop out. I was hoping to see the full fledged duel Waymar had with the Other before it (and the rest) killed him. Like many others here I agree, establishing that this is a fantasy series is very important from the get go. Though I do guess HBO is terrified they will loose viewers if they do so.

Having Will be killed off screen is adding insult to the injury. It clearly needs to be shown that Waymar is now a zombie, and that he kills Will. After all, only a few episodes later we have Jon fighting the wights in Castle Black.