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Andhaira

Will Renly and Loras's homosexual relationship be shown?

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Will we have in our face homosexual sex scenes, or will D&D go a more subtle route as it is in the books, and have the relationship be hinted at only?

My personal take on this is that in the first season we will only see hints; Renly and Loras glancing at each other, briefly touching, things like that. Then, in Season 2 we will see Loras and Renly have a full blow sex scene in Renly's tent outside Storm's End.

Thoughts?

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I wouldn't be surprised if we got some gay action here. Will they pass on the opportunity to "shock" some viewers? It's HBO, after all.

I think i would prefer it if they kept it the way it is in the books. And that ideally, most people would not get it before Loras reaction to Renlys death, or maybe not even until he says that line to Sansa about "his sun having set" or something like that. I like the tastefulness of it all. Not because i think love between two men needs censoring per ce, but somehow it makes it more romantic.

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There should be subliminal splicings of L&R sex scenes all the way through the series.

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I hope they at least show Renly and Loras kissing. This is HBO, we need more than some sly hints.

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I like the hint during the first season then show during the second season idea. I think it would be harder to hint at their relationship throughout the course of the show than it is through the books. I also thinks it needs to be shown because it provides the viewer with an understanding as to why the Lannisters and other nobles would be so easily willing to believe that Margery and Renly never consummated their marriage because he was "'too busy' with the march to Kings' Landing," even though Renly's march to King's Landing was notoriously and intentionally slow. Later on it will also add another layer of depth to Cersei's obsession with Margery's maidenhead.

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I want hints. No more. Possibly a flashback, if we get a Loras POV. But hints.

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We can do better than that for the first season, surely? Once on Renly's return to KL, again post-tourney, again around decision to leave KL. That works, totally. Who needs subtlety? The books have subtlety, but that's really just a practicality. Unless they demote both characters considerably in terms of importance, I think it'd be pretty lame for them not to show anything. It's a pretty easy way of making comparatively minor characters (against the primary cast) seem more sympathetic and 'real'. And, let's face it, Renly and Loras are apparently the two most beautiful men Sansa's ever seen (one of the few areas I'm happy to accept her judgment)... if they cast people anywhere close to the descriptions it would be totally criminal not to have any scenes relating to their relationship.

</fangirl>

Failing that (as it will be), I hope proper hints are included for sure.

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I'm all for as many gay sex scenes as they want to put in! Especially if the two actors are gonna be good-looking.

By the way, what happened to the spoiler free part of the forum??

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I think it will be fine if they keep the "sub"text at the level it's at in the books. Remember, we're talking about a visual medium here. Certain innuendo and not-so-innuendo, coupled with some lingering looks between Loras and Renly should be enough. I mean, even the books are not going for much more, and with more approachable visual cues like some puppy-eyed glances, a hand on a shoulder... could be interesting.

Just imagine how one would feel if they thought: "Wait... these guys can't be just BFF's, right?" Add to that the cringe at just how bad Sansas (or Briennes, for that matter) "gaydar" has to be to not pick up that Loras is not working in the vagina department.

I think keeping the audience guessing as much as the characters is a very nice touch here. Not that full-blown "praying" would annoy me, I liked it fine in Queer as Folk, but in the context of Renly/Loras, it seems... out of place somehow, especially since it seems to me to be presented as a very chivalric/idealized form of relationship, with less of a raw sexuality note to it. :dunno:

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I think some visual cues combined with hinting would be the way to go.

I might just be an idiot, but when I had read ACoK the first time, I never caught onto their relationship, which I believe to be a good thing. If there's a show that should reward repeat viewings and not violently wave plot details in the viewers face, it's this one.

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Horza,

There should be subliminal splicings of L&R sex scenes all the way through the series.

Are you an awesomeness machine, or are you simply made of awesome?

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Both - they are just facets of the awesome that binds and nourishes all life.

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I think in future now, when talking about a relationship between a man and a woman, i'm going to refer to it as a 'heterosexual relationship', as whenever it happpens between two men or women the homosexuality part is always mentioned, as if it needs to be spelt out and drawn attention to!

And i'm currently reading book 3 part 2 and i've only just picked up on the relationship, mainly thanks to this thread, but then that might be because i'm a bit slow on the up-take. I did, after all, remark in Kick-Ass when HitGirl was shot: "I bet she's got one of those bullet-proof vests on we've seen her in!" :thumbsup:

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Well, how they are pulling this relationship will depend on what they are doing with the characters of Renly and Loras in the first place, especially in the first season Renly will be essentially a non-character. I as read did not think about him at all, he never does anything interesting, nor does anybody care about him. He comes about as some kind of royal version of Littlefinger. Funny, liked, and irrelevant.

The few things that are worth to remember are him laughing about 'Lion's Tooth' - but to have that in the series they would have to introduce Renly at the same point the book does, and I'm not sure they are going to do that. If the Small Council is going to argue about the Dany issue (and I think they will) then Renly could show his pragmatic side by suggesting to finally have those obstacles to the Baratheon dynasty killed - but they could easily omit him there, as the whole scene is not about him.

Considering that Renly's importance will grow in the end, and in the second season (if they are not about to reduce his role), I think there should be one or two scenes establishing Renly's and Loras's plot involving Margaery replacing Cersei as queen. The book gives us this whole thing only through Varys talking to Illyrio and Renly showing Margaery's picture to Ned. These hints are easily overlooked, and in the show they are likely to change/reduce the conversation of Varys and Illyrio in the dungeons.

Especially they need to establish somehow that there is bad blood between Cersei and Renly.

But the core of Renly's scenes should be his offer to Ned when Robert was dying. That is the moment where the audience should realize that this funny guy in green really is not just funny (the same approach should be done with Littlefinger as well, no one should take him seriously - or suspect that he might be behind everything - until he betrays Ned). Also Renly's departure from KL should come to the audience as surprise as it comes to Ned.

A sex scene with Renly and Loras would extremely out of place in the first season, as Loras - who as a character is of greater importance and relevance to the reader/audience - is mostly seen through the eyes of Sansa, as possible love interest for her, and as the very embodiment of knightly valor (or at least the young, beautiful, reckless version of it). His important scenes should be the tourney scenes, the confrontation with Gregor and Sandor, and his plea to Ned to be charged with apprehending the Mountain.

I don't see much space for a Renly-Loras love story subplot. There should be hints, though, they could share glances at the Tourney of the Hand, maybe we could also see Renly greeting Loras when he arrives in KL, and there could be talk. I particularly remember Renly and Littlefinger talking about Loras in Ned's presence during the tourney. They could weave something in there.

Then there could be cuts to Highgarden to Renly's crowning in the end - I'm not sure if they are going to do this like it was done in the book. Just talking about the fact that Renly is now a King, too.

Whether there will be space for the relationship in the second season I do not know. That depends on how much space the whole Renly plot gets in the first place. If there will be scenes with Renly without Catelyn, it could be done pretty easily, but if not, I'm not sure. But the scene where Renly and Loras were 'praying' could be easily integrated, especially if this is mirrored by similar scene where Melisandre 'comforts' Stannis and gets the means to create the shadow babe (whose existence should come as surprise, afterwards, of course).

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Melisandre and Stannis's baby making scene will definately be shown, complete with eerie music, Melisandre chanting, the shadows writhing etc etc.

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Melisandre and Stannis's baby making scene will definately be shown, complete with eerie music, Melisandre chanting, the shadows writhing etc etc.

For some reason, I had a flashback to the second half of this scene:

:dunno:

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I wouldn't be surprised if we got some gay action here. Will they pass on the opportunity to "shock" some viewers? It's HBO, after all.

I think i would prefer it if they kept it the way it is in the books. And that ideally, most people would not get it before Loras reaction to Renlys death, or maybe not even until he says that line to Sansa about "his sun having set" or something like that. I like the tastefulness of it all. Not because i think love between two men needs censoring per ce, but somehow it makes it more romantic.

Why not? Loras/Renly at least has some relevance for the plot, unlike the absolutely unnecessary Dany/handmaiden scene which will surely be included.

On the other hand, I'd actually prefer both relationships not to be included because there is, well, much more interesting material in the books than sex scenes (well, Renly and Loras don't need to have a scene, but if they don't, what's the point? :D such an opportunity for fanservice should not be wasted!)

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Actually, this series does not have as much sex scenes as one could assume (at least, after watching Rome and Spartacus, or even The Tudors, where pretty much of the non-Henry VIII sex scenes are often completely unmotivated). The core sex stuff is about Dany and Drogo, and Shae and Tyrion. That's it. And I think making Shae/Tyrion stuff interesting would be difficult, as at least I have little interest in watching dwarf sex ;-).

There is not much Jaime/Cersei stuff either (only that mad encounter after Jaime returned), nor Catelyn/Ned (despite the one scene that should be in the pilot, and that's pretty much an after sex sequence). There is no children sex stuff yet (Arya, Sansa, Sweetrobin, Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen etc.).

They can (and should) show Lancel and Cersei in ACoK, although that would only be for the sake of seeing a nude Lena Headey, these scenes are not important for the story.

Dany and her handmaiden could be omitted completely, I think, unless they are going to make a story point out of the fact that Dany yearns for a (sexual) relationship again. But as this happens in ACoK, and as Daenerys still has no lover in the next season, I'm not sure if we need this.

Later there are Ygritte and Jon, and Robb and Jeyne, and maybe we can cut to Edmure and Roslin while butchering Robb and Cat, but that is not necessary. There are certain weird sex scenes (Littlefinger and Lysa for example), but I'm not sure if I need to see stuff like this.

Renly and Loras's last 'prayer' would likely be much interesting than intimate details about Lysa.

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