Which characters will be cut from the series or consolidated with other characters?

[FilliamHMuffman]

I don't expect the drastic cuts like a lot of other fans (I can't believe people are actually suggesting removing characters like Renly and Davos), but some things I do expect to not make the cut:

Quaithe - Her presence in the books feels like an aborted story arc to me, as though GRRM had intended at one point for Dany to go to Asshai, but scrapped the plan somewhere along the way because there just wasn't time for it. They'll probably be some hasty resolution to her plot thread in the book, while her character doesn't show up in the series at all.

Some of the more insignificant fantasy elements that would add a lot to the budget and aren't essential to the plot. The dragons and Others are necessary. The giants and mammoths are not. Likewise, I would not be surprised if the manticore in season two is replaced by, say, a venemous snake.

Yunkai - Dany will skip straight from Astapor to Mereen without the stop in Yunkai. If Daario and the other sellswords make it into the TV series, they'll be introduced guarding Mereen.

Crackclaw Point - One of the most loathed subplots in the series, and a complete waste of time, other than explaining what happened to Shagwell, and he probably won't make it into the TV show anyway.

[Lord Varys]

Let's stay on AGoT and ACoK with this discussion. Changes they make there may certain other changes in later seasons a necessity, but to ponder if they will cut aspects of Brienne's journey in AFfC is pretty pointless, as long as we don't know if there will be a Brienne in the series (I don't need her, for example).

I think Myrcella and Tommen are dealt with in the pilot is the way they are about to deal with Shireen as well. All of them are important when it comes to politics, even more so in the 2nd season, where Tommen and Myrcella both should have lines. I doubt that things as pivotal as the Dornish marriage and following it the riot in KL, or Tyrion's threatening Tommen's life will be cut, nor such amusing things like Joffrey's name day (where Myrcella and Tommen rejoiced when their uncle came back alive).

To cut Selyse would make little sense, too, as they could remove Stannis's whole plot as well if they did that. Selyse is a presence at Dragonstone in the second and third volume who (along with her uncle) opposed Davos. If they cut her, most of the scenes set at Dragonstone - and as Stannis will be the one completely new player in season 2, they should take time to establish him and his background properly - would be pretty pointless. I think if some Stannis related things have to go, it has to do with Davos's insight and thoughts (many of his chapters he deals with memories, or his feelings toward Stannis, which can not properly be shown on screen). That would include Salladhor Saan as well. It would likely be established that Stannis has hired a pirate Davos is familiar with, but I doubt that will have much to do in season 2.

About the Florents, if Dragonstone is supposed to look like a real castle and stuff, at least Ser Axell as castellan should be around. And Lord Alester later certainly, too, especially if they intend to make us believe that Stannis is a real threat to KL. He needs to win a certain amount of Renly's men over to his cause.

In any case, I'd rather see plotlines gone than whole characters. Arya's journey can be cut down remarkably without excluding any character. After all, she only travels here and there, and how often she was beaten by Yoren, or how and when exactly she started to bond with Gendry is completely irrelevant. The important things of her journey are Lorch attacking them and the death of Yoren, her getting captured by Gregor, and her getting to Harrenhal. That can be told in two episodes. At Harrenhal, the focus should be on her and Jaqen. All other characters can be neglected (Weese can be established as asshole in one shot).

We should keep in mind that this is a TV series. They will be able to integrate much characters, and if the story requires it, a recurring character (Theon) becomes a regular, and then disappears altogether. Also, Jaime will be absent almost entirely from ACoK.

[Padraig]

Lord Varys, Tommen has to feature in a talking role eventually. But only from the end of aSoS. I really can't see what he or Myrcella add before that point. They need to exist (obviously) but we don't need to have Myrcella talk about going to Dorne, for example. Tyrion just needs to send her there. :)

I don't know what Selyse has to do with Stannis's whole plot? Sure, it is through Selyse that he gets to know Melisandre but that can easily be got around. I do agree that a Florent would be useful in aSoS but in aCoK the number of characters around Stannis can be kept very low. Stannis is all about Davos and Melisandre and the conflict between them. Everything else might just confuse things.

I can't see Jaime not featuring much in aCoK. Or Robb. In TV, major characters don't normally drop out of a season and then come back.

[trio]

Whenever I read Arya's rota of men to be avenged on, I always wonder how many of them are going to be cut.

Because even when she's whispering to herself, I find it hard to remember all of them and what they did to her. It'd be 10X harder when it's a TV viewer who hasn't read the books.

So I think plenty of the Harrenhal crowd will be merged into one.

- I also think that maybe Randyll Tarly could be cut. Though Sam talks of his father, I don't think it's neccessary to actually see him. Even if Brienne does go to Maidenpool (though here's hoping it's cut) it needn't be Tarly that she meets - it could be any random Lord.

- Chataya and Alayaya - I think there's no need to actually see Chataya. But I'd keep Alayaya, just because that reveal when Cersei presents her could be really effective if we think it's really Shae. And it's a character that reveals something of Tyrion and that's useful.

- Lancel is going to become even more interesting - must be kept.

- And whilst I agree Kevan does little - I think the contrast between him and Tywin is fascinating. And it'd look odd if a great man like Tywin was without a trusted man at his side. But I think Kevan's other sons could be cut.

- The Kettleblacks are just crying out to be merged into one. Or two, if one is still needed to go mental with revenge after the High Septon kills Osney, or whichever it is. But three is just madness.

- The Freys. Good God, they need to be cut! Don't care who survives as long as it's two at the most. We can be told about how many sons there are without having to be introduced to them all!

- BWB - keep Beric and the red priest. But the rest can be cut, all but Tom O'Sevens, who pops up in Riverrun and may be a spy. So we have to know who he is.

- Kingsguard - hell yeah. Even when reading I couldn't remember who was who. Only have Barristan and the Hound with speaking roles, please. Oakhart must be there from the beginning, but no talking till Dorne. And we have to be able to identify Ser Mandon at the Blackwater as someone who's been in the background all along. But that's it.

- Tanda, Falyse and Lollys - Lollys has to stay. She's a pathetic character who could be very affecting, for all that she doesn't have any lines. It gives true horror to the riot, and gives Shae somewhere to be placed. Not to mention gives Bronn a future, and a Lordship. And I think Bronn will become a big character to come. But Tanda is pointless, and possibly Falyse too.

- Tyrek Lannister and his baby bride. Well the baby bride can be cut, definately. But there's been a lot of speculation that Tyrek will be brought back in some mysterious but significant capacity in the future, so don't discount him just yet. And he doesn't take up much space before he disappears, so it's no harm to include him at the moment.

[Lord Varys]

Trio,

why should Brienne meet 'any random Lord' in Maidenpool but not Randyll Tarly? Any random Lord could be cut much easier, and Brienne would have no need to talk to any random Lord. I agree that he is not yet important to the story, but he is an important figure for the character of Samwell - or should we hear no stuff about his father or how he ended up at the Wall either? So having him finally appear would not be that bad, would. Especially as Randyll Tarly might end up becoming Hand of the King and/or Regent, if arrives first in KL.

Alayaya needs to be in the show, if they are going to stick to the 'Cersei tries to blackmail Tyrion with her life' subplot. If not, the whole brothel could go out. But as this is an important development, for both Tyrion and Cersei, and the way his father treats him after the Blackwater, I doubt that it will go out.

If they don't stick to this, they need to establish to create open hostility and life threats between Tyrion and Cersei.

Also they need to keep up the feeling that Tyrion's meetings with Shae are dangerous, and that Cersei's (supposedly) has watched him all the time. With the fate of Ned in our heads, they would building little to no tension, if Tyrion could go around and do as he pleases without any fear of being discovered.

Lancel, well all you have to see about Lancel in season one is a boy with blond hair in the garment of a Baratheon squire who is bullied around by King Robert, and who is established as a cousin of the Queen (with likely produces a troubled look on Ned's face). If they would omit the character, Cersei would have considerable less fun in season 2, and she has pretty little to do there in the first place.

Kevan's other sons actually never appeared. Despite those Lord Karstark murdered at Riverrun, and if they keep that, it would be enough to show the corpses (of course, they should keep Theon boasting about how much Lannisters they captured during the Whispering Wood, and also Catelyn's harsh question if Lord Tywin had been among them).

About the Kettleblacks I agree, although this might cause problems at a time when the story demands that there a three of them around.

The Freys cast no problem at all. We are not introduced to many of them, and the one scene with Catelyn talking to Lord Walder would be no fun at all, if Lord Walder had not the army he fathered himself around him. The only Freys we really need to know are, I think, Ser Stevron - as heir to the Twins - and Olyvar who becomes Robb's squire. End of it. Lame Lothar is only introduced much later, but he would be important, too. And certainly Ryman, Edwyn and Emmon later in AFfC.

What about Ned's man Harwin among the BWB? Should he be cut, too. Him reuniting with Arya is pretty touching at that point of the story, if there were no face Arya knows among this band, it would be pretty pointless.

KG: Well, Ser Mandon Moore has pretty fun dialogue at the beginning of ACoK. And as he has no dialogue in AGoT, and becomes pretty important later on in this season, I think he should have some lines. The same is true about Ser Meryn Trant as well. If Arya's escape (and Syrio's fate) happens as it does in the books, he will have something to say there.

House Stokeworth: They need to be around, I think, as they are a background for things unfolding in season 2, so they should be there.

Oh, and about Bronn I'm not sure. All he is, after all, is Tyrion's henchman. He has funny lines, but he really only fulfills a purpose in the first two season. I'm not sure why they should him drag into the third season. All he does there is to say Tyrion that he would do less and less for him.

Tyrek Lannister: I assume if this thing ends up in the show, this might be a sign that Tyrek's fate will be dealt with later on, and might yet become important.

And Padraig,

about Myrcella:

There is a whole scene where she is entering the ship and her whole family sends her off to Dorne. I'm not sure if this particular scene (followed by the riot) should omit any dialogue from her and/or Tommen, although the chapter does not give us any important lines. But the tourney at Joffrey's name day does, and I'm not sure if they should omit it, and thus the whole Dontos business, and Tyrion's arrival in KL.

About Jaime and Robb in season 2. Well, to feature Jaime prominently would either require to change the story completely, or would rather pointless, as Coster-Waldau looking at the wall of a cell would not be that entertaining, wouldn't it? They could show us Tyrion's failed rescue attempt of Jaime, but as it fails its not that important.

About Robb, I'm not sure either. Do we really need him that much in this season? All he could add would be more battles. Maybe we could see the Crag stuff, and get the first sex scene with Jeyne, but what else is there to be told, seriously?

I agree that it does not happen that often in original TV series that members of the main cast disappear for nearly a whole season, but here the story does require it. And as we are talking about seasons of 10-12 episodes, this not as big a deal as it might be if there were 25 episodes per season. We won't see Lysa Tully, too, for a more than a complete season, although she will be established in the first half of season 1, and the audience will expect that this was no completely irrelevant side story.

[Andhaira]

Well the less cuts we get the better. The most obivous place to make cuts is the Frey's and in the east, where dany is. Drogo's bloodriders for instance, could be merged. All in all though, I doubt we will see many cuts.

Also, they can NOT cut Jhalabhar Xho. He may yet end up being the PwwP. (he's a prince, born in the SUMMER isles, an excellent marksman, etc etc)

[Padraig]

I agree that it does not happen that often in original TV series that members of the main cast disappear for nearly a whole season, but here the story does require it. And as we are talking about seasons of 10-12 episodes, this not as big a deal as it might be if there were 25 episodes per season. We won't see Lysa Tully, too, for a more than a complete season, although she will be established in the first half of season 1, and the audience will expect that this was no completely irrelevant side story.

I don't think Lysa Tully is a major character. She will appear in a couple of episodes in GoT and a couple of episodes in any S3. That's it. To be true to the books, Jaime wouldn't appear much in S1 of the TV series but it appears he (and Cersei) will be a lot more prominent than that. Since he is given a bigger role in aGoT, it seems logical that he will get a bigger role in S2. Especially if Jaime turns out to be a popular character.

I'm not convinced I am right about this but I think its the more likely scenario than otherwise. And there is stuff to play with in aCoK. There could be an early scene where Robb or Catelyn encounters Jaime. Some drama there. Maybe they explain about Ned and Robb's new position? I'd like to see his reaction. Similarly, when I read aCoK initially I was very worried about Jaime escaping. They can build up that whole angle, with Tyrion plotting. It can be quite a tense escapade. And people will probably be surprised when he is re-captured.

And i'm a big fan of having him escape earlier in aCoK and moving aSoS chapter forward into S2.

I'd be less sure about increasing Robb's role in aCoK. We'll see how they handle him in GoT. The actor is less of a name but again, he could turn out to be a very popular character. I know he made a very positive impression when people met him in Belfast. And his fall in the Crag could be very interesting to see live. I definitely wouldn't rule it out.

But the tourney at Joffrey's name day does, and I'm not sure if they should omit it, and thus the whole Dontos business, and Tyrion's arrival in KL.

You are probably right. I can't recall what she says though, so i'd be happy to drop those lines too! Dontos is important alright but i'm sure they can just focus on Sansa, Joffrey (maybe Sandor) and Dontos when introducing that character.

I agree about Randyl. If you are going to introduce a random lord, it may as well be him They could introduce Lancel in S2 (instead of S1) if they wish. I'd like Harwin to be in it. Although, he doesn't have to be in S1. Bronn has to be in it. You are right that his role does lose importance but he gives Tyrion somebody to trade wit with. I'd drop Stokeworth though. Not important enough. We don't have to know who Bronn gets married to.

As for Tyrek. It doesn't make sense to pay for an actor to appear as him. If he got important later, introduce him then. I'd like Kevan to be there but given we are limited by budgets, I can easily seem him been dropped (at least in the early seasons).

Drogo's bloodriders for instance, could be merged. All in all though, I doubt we will see many cuts.

Also, they can NOT cut Jhalabhar Xho. He may yet end up being the PwwP.

Well, GRRM has suggested that there will be cuts. So better get used to it. :) I presume you are not serious about Xho?

[Lord Varys]

Lysa certainly will be no major character as far as the credits go, but during the two or three episodes she will appear she will be established as an important person, both politically in the world this series is set in, and within the story that's told as well.

In any case, I can see people being more irritated by the fact that she and her disgusting son seem to appear only to disappear as quickly as possible from the story.

Whereas Jaime's fate certainly will be clear at the end of season 1 (he disappears into a cell). That means he may be away for a longer or a shorter period of time.

Also season 2 will include new players (Stannis and Balon), and will give the audience Theon Greyjoy's betrayal to deal with. I doubt that anybody will be disappointed that there is little Jaime Lannister, especially as we still have his sister, his brother, and his father out in the field, and anybody will know that if the Lannisters will win the war, Jaime will be free again.

Also, I can't see Jaime being more than a despicable villain in the first season. The pilot has him trying to kill Bran. Later we will see him taking part in the man hunt for Arya (here the Cersei/Jaime sex scene in Darry we're told about in AFfC, where she convinces him to kill Arya on sight, if he finds her first, would be nice), and finally see him killing Ned's men, and break his leg.

So the audience most likely will love to hate, not love him because such a great character. And as season 2 will have with Theon likely an even more interesting villain, I'm not sure that he will be really missed by anyone.

I agree that there likely will be a few more scenes with Jaime and Cersei in the first season than in the books (they can show Cersei's and Jaime's reaction when they learn about Tyrion's abduction, for example), but I really can't imagine a real new 'Jaime subplot' within the first season that would work.

Also a real Cersei subplot would be difficult, as this would likely involve to reveal to much secret stuff too early. The real strength and fun of AGoT is that the reader/the audience is as clueless as Eddard Stark what the hell is going on in this city.

Also I'd really hate it if for the sake of the main cast status Cersei and/or Jaime would get Littlefinger/Varys stuff to do, or even their lines. Jaime is, after all, a completely reckless character, so it would be no good to establish him as a plotter.

I think I will only like this series if they keep to the wheel-within-wheels thing - maybe not as complex as in the books, but I think the very first episode of Rome shows how dense one single episode can be layered with political intrigue.

Jaime getting freed earlier in season 2, would have the writers make up more travel scenes with Brienne (which likely already will be severely cut down, I think, as much of this stuff (visiting the inn, for instance) is expendable, as things would become really confusing if Jaime arrived before the Purple Wedding at KL.

[Padraig]

As GRRM suggests in the foreword in aSoS, some of the chapters at the beginning of aSoS happen before the end of aCoK. Thus moving forward a Jaime chapter would actually keep the chronology in order. The timing in the books don't work so well in TV format:

Catelyn talks to Jaime and comes to a decision

Battle of the Blackwater

Jaime recounts his escape from Riverrun

In chronology it is obviously:

Catelyn talks to Jaime

Jaime escapes

Battle of Blackwater

I doubt people will worry too much about Lysa. She will have failed to kill Tyrion, so that will be part closure to that thread.

When I talk about Jaime in aCoK, i'm thinking of 2 angles. The actors dedication to the series. He may not mind having to look for another job between S1 and S3 but we need him back full time in S3, so it could backfire if he finds something really good. And also if he is a popular character (even in a "love to hate" way or in a "HOT" way, which seems to matter), dropping him for a year might hurt the series too. Given Ned's absence, the producers may be leery of depriving the series of another major character. Stannis and Davos don't seem to have the same appeal as Jaime (or Ned).

I really can't imagine a real new 'Jaime subplot' within the first season that would work.

But I do think there is enough to go on with the Jaime stuff in aCoK. They can make a bit more of Jaime's role in the tourney. And show how he fled from KL. I know people will prefer Tywin to be introduced via Tyrion but Jaime does meet him first. For Cersei, they can show more of her and Robert and her role in Robert's death. Lots of things like that.

[Bronn Stone]

Quaithe - Her presence in the books feels like an aborted story arc to me, as though GRRM had intended at one point for Dany to go to Asshai, but scrapped the plan somewhere along the way because there just wasn't time for it. They'll probably be some hasty resolution to her plot thread in the book, while her character doesn't show up in the series at all.

“To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To

go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the

shadow.”

No way in h*** GRRM 'aborts' the Quaithe vision. This may be part of his current dilemma, but it must happen.

[FilliamHMuffman]

“To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To

go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the

shadow.”

No way in h*** GRRM 'aborts' the Quaithe vision. This may be part of his current dilemma, but it must happen.

There are dozens if not hundreds of prophesies scattered around the series. Many of them are unlikely to make it into the TV series.

For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if the Ghost of High Heart and her prophecies don't make it into the series either.

[Fireball07]

Meeting Randyll Tarly is a long way away, but since he is one of the coolest characters in the series, it would be a pity to cut him.

I agree with most of what people are saying.

Pyp and Green should stay IMO, Barristan is important IMO, the other KG could be background, one particularly cruel one, a Meryn/Boros merge.

But really, a few can just be in the background, and come more into it as needed. That would be my main opinion.

[Lord Varys]

A Blount/Trant merge would not make much sense, as both of them accompanied Robert to Winterfell, so we should see two white-cloaked guys in the background in Winterfell. I think they might concentrate on one unpleasant KG, but if they do, it should be Trant, as he is the one that (supposedly) kills Syrio Forel.

But I hope they do not reduce the members of the KG to five or three, or something like that.

[The Pita]

They don't need to reduce them. The Wire did fine with 20000000 side characters that only really had one major appearance but were in the background most of the series.

[Seanathin]

I don't see them cutting a bunch of charators so much as marganalizing a few of them. Giving them their bits in the story, but develping them more as people you remember from the background not the dude whos name you remember.

[Loras]

I think that there are a number of storylines in the first couple of seasons that could be reduced.

One of the major problems with a proposed second season is that the characters are moving further away from one another. I think that the most important storylines for the SERIES are the ones that link to our original clans: the Lannisters, the Starks (inc. Jon Snow) and the Targaryens. Other plotlines are subplots, but they are integral if they impact directly on our key clans.

I guess what I am saying is that in the second season: Theon's plot should be a major subplot and should be followed from the start (with Robb and Cat), to the Iron Islands, to Winterfell - where Theon's betrayal impacts on another of the Stark clan ("Bran") and has consequences for the rest of the Starks ("Jon", "Catelyn", "Robb" and "Sansa"). It then has a further impact on a key location: Winterfell.

On the other hand, the Stannis plot doesn't need to be explicitly shown. We can hear about Stannis falling in with the Red Witch, burning the gods, the death of Maester Cressen. We will have already learnt about Stannis in Season 1 as well. This saves on production costs - we don't actually have to "see" Dragonstone, but only hear about it.

Rather than the original introduction scene, the first time we would meet Stannis would be during the "Renly's Peach" scene. We would also finally see the Red Witch. Rather than have Davos rowing Melisandre beneath Storm's End, you could show a scene introducing Davos - in fact Davos could be cut from the entire series if needs be and he does nothing in ADWD. Finally we could see the "magic" required to create the shadow which kills Renly.

Stannis would only be required to show up again at the end of Season 3, to become a regular (?) in Season 4.

This would also allow the Edric Storm subplot to be cut from the series, it can be explained why they arrive on the wall.

XXXXXXXXXXXX

A further character who has a role that could be reduced is Bronn. We don't have a major "death" at the end of season 2 like we do in season 1, could Bronn be killed off in the Battle for the Blackwater? This would allow Tyrion to appear weaker for the 3rd season, and the axing of the Stokeworth family.

[Padraig]

Some interesting ideas there Loras. I wouldn't drop Davos completely though. You could definitely argue that his role and Stannis' role could be substantially reduced. But somebody has to hang around Stannis and Mel for the scenes that are necessary. Might as well be Davos.

Would be a shame to do that but understandable.

I'd axe the Stokeworths either way. And I can see why Bronn is less important in aSoS also, so they could kill him off. Except, GRRM could still have a role for the guy. :)

Interesting.

[Loras]

Padraig,

Some interesting ideas there Loras. I wouldn't drop Davos completely though. You could definitely argue that his role and Stannis' role could be substantially reduced. But somebody has to hang around Stannis and Mel for the scenes that are necessary. Might as well be Davos.

The problem that I have with Davos is that he is a window into Stannis' world, which in terms of a season 2, would be a completely new world. I think it would be quite interesting to build up a mystery surrounding Stannis and Melisandre - there is plenty story that could be discussed (and Stannis isn't completely new, he will be mentioned in Season 1 because of the letter). That way he could be included onlywhen his storyline has an impact on our other major characters: In season 2 - Renly's Peach/Death, Blackwater Bay ("Tyrion", "Cersei", "Sansa", "Sandor")- and even then, Stannis can be off screen. In season 3 - at the Wall ("Jon"). It would also make it a little more tense when Melisandre shows up at the wall - we know what she can do, but what will she do to Jon?

Also - it could be changed that Melisandre SAW everyone fighting at the wall in her fires?

It was mentioned earlier that Kevan Lannister is a character who could be cut. I disagree. He could be cut from the first two seasons, but he could be dealt with by having the character introduced as arriving for 'The Purple Wedding' and have him in an unbroken run of episodes until he leaves with Tywin's bones. That really includes all the essential events of his timeline so far.

The first season has a fairly tight set of guest stars though, so I wouldn't worry too much about a favourite being axed. Although I would not be surprised if the Mountain Clans were greatly cut, along with Gregor's henchmen - they can be introduced when we need them, and some of the Brotherhood without banners, again in a season 3 we could expand on our known characters a bit.

[spikebrennan]

Another data point: George said (at http://grrm.livejournal.com/156885.html):

Casting continues apace. Mycah, Janos Slynt, Gendry, Tobho Mott, Old Nan, Shagga, Syrio, Marillion, Doreah, Alliser Thorne, Grenn, Pyp, Rast, Osha... oh, why oh why did I invent so many blasted characters??? Didn't I know what it would cost? Oh, wait... in a book, a cast of thousands and a cast of two costs the same. For some roles, hard choices between lots of very qualified, talented actors. For other roles, hard searches, where no one seems to be quite right. Nina Gold is finding some great people, though. And the search goes on.

[Spanky]

I'd want Lancel to stay. He's an important part in Cersei's story, even if that is super far away from now.