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Ran

New POV 2 - Spoilers for ADwD

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This is the place to place and discuss reports of the Quentyn chapter GRRM read at Fargo.

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Since I was one of those asking for the new thread, I made some cut and paste. Hope helps :)

COMPILATION (by Jughead of the Round):

Compilation of the the various posts on the new chapter: (If there's any new details to add, you can definitely share)

SPOILER: NEW ADWD CHAPTER

THE MERCHANT'S MAN

Quentyn Martell is stranded in Volantis, trying to find a ship to Daenerys Targaryen in Slaver's Bay. He has been sent by his father to make her his bride. The party has undergone much trouble and strife; Maester Kedry, and two of the guards that were sent with Quentyn were killed when the ship they were being transported on was beset by pirates. Quentyn reflects that not only was this a great tragedy for them, but that the loss of Kedry was most acute because he had spent half his life studying the languages and cultures of the free cities and the slave cities. So the difficulty of their task, which was already high, was just made more so.

They have tried 20 - 100 ships and can't find anyone willing to take them to Meereen, since Daenerys has closed the fighting pits and slavery isn't allowed - there is no reason for any ship to put into port there. Quentyn is very concerned that Tywin's assassins will find Daenerys before he can get to her and protect her.

Quentyn is a solemn young man of 18, who is not prone to laughter or jests. He is dedicated to fulfilling his duty. Quentyn is also somewhat dreamy and awkward. In his mind, he thinks of Daenerys as the most beautiful woman in the world. He thinks how she will need him because she needs Dorne, but she will not love him, and he is distraught by this. He is not a man who has had much of any success with women aside from a kiss from one of Lord Fowler's twin daughters.

Quentyn had been called by his father Prince Doran Martell to the water garden, where the children are, and his father gave him his directions. Quentyn has rejected suggestions from his companions to return to Dorne because he refused to fail his Father, Dorne, and the most beautiful woman in the world.

The harbor of Volantis is huge and is said to be able to swallow all the islands of Braavos within it, and Quentyn doesn't doubt that after seeing it, although he has never seen Braavos. Volantis still speaks Valarian, but a corrupted version of it. The city has five slaves for every free man and the slaves are marked with a variety of signs by a tattoo on their cheek. Also, in Volantis, common modes of transportation are small carts that are pulled by miniature elephants.The innkeeper convinced Quentyn that they must use the dwarf elephant carts to travel, as a man can lose social standing by walking. Coincidentally, the innkeep also had a cousin who just happened to have an elephant stable.

Quentyn's group is pretending to be wine merchants; they all take a turn being the master merchant, and the others his servants. They finally find a captain who will take them to Meereen but his ship reeks of filthy slaves and the captain is very shady. On the way back to their lodgings they pass by companies of sellswords looking for recruits and Quentyn is upset, thinking that every sword they find is one more threatening his bride. The recruiters try to recruit Quentyn and his men, using some amazingly foul language while mocking the party. The Golden Company, a famous sellsword company, is also mentioned as being known far and wide to have broken their contract.

On the way back to the inn, Quentyn's companions try to get Quentyn to stop and watch a comedy show, but he won't have any of it. He doesn't want laughter, he wants to serve Dorne and get to his bride. The comedy show consisted of two dwarves dressed in tin armour, one mounted on a pig and one on a dog.

They return to their lodgings and the one they have nicknamed "the big man" says he has an idea on how to get to Dany that doesn't include The Demon Road (the other Valyrian roads are known as The Dragon Roads, but there is something darker about the demon road). He says it's not honorable but it will be faster than travelling the Demon Road.

SOURCES:

Reading

It was Quinten Martell. I am probably the worst person to do a recap, but I will do the short version: Quentin (Iwill spell it many ways, so I get it right once) is stranded and trying to find a ship to Dany. He has been sent by his father to make her his bride. The party has undergone much trouble and strife and some have died, including the Maester whom was a specialist in the Free cities. They have tried 20, 100 ships and can't find anyone willing to go since Dany closed the fighting pits and slavery isn't allowed - there is no reason to put into port there. Q is very concerned that Tywin's assassins will find Dany before he can get to her and protect her.

They finally find a captian who will take them there, but his ship reeks of the filty slaves and the captain is very shady. On the way back to their lodgings they encounter sellswords looking for recruits and Q is upset, thinking that every sword they find is one more threatening his bride. The recruiters use some amazingly foul language and mock the party.

They return to the lodgings and (I think) the one they have nicknamed "the big man" says he has an idea to get to dany that doesn't include The Demon Road (the other Valyrian roads are known as The Dragon Roads, but there is something darker about the demon road). He says its not honorable but it will be faster than travelling the Demon Road. The chapter ends.

Questions

1. People in the book - won't comment about Theon, and Arya, Sansa, Jon, Mellisandra, and some more will be in. He also said there is a possibility that some of the chapters will be moved to Winds of Winter since ADWD is getting alarmingly long. There were more Arya chapters, but those along with a few others, have been moved already. Interestingly, the chapter that would have been the last Arya was written when the fourth book was still ADWD and the five year gap was still anticipated.

3. There is one mystery POV, which will not be revealed early.

The Quentyn chapter George read is set in Volantis, BTW, for those wondering. ;) And the chapter title is "The Merchant's Man".

SPOILER: ADWDI imagine most of these questions will be answered with the postings of the other summaries.

What about the chapter led the title to be named the Merchant's Man? I know Quentyn is the Merchant's Man since he is the POV, but how exactly? Is this part of his disguise? I believe in AFFC it was mentioned by Arianne that Q was posing as a merchant in Planky Town.

Was there any mention made of the Golden Company?

Was Quentyn looking to hire the sellswords, or join the sellsword company?

Were there any descriptions about Volantis itself?

Any other insights into Q's character? Is he more like his dad or the Red Viper? What about the company he keeps? According to AFFC, Q is travelling with Cletus Yronwood (has a lazy eye and is randy), Maester Kedry (master of tongues and who is now dead), and three Yronwood knights.

Thanks ahead of time. Sorry for the onslaught of questions, but I'm a spoiler nut.

I've been speculating on the new mystery POV. Since the POV doesn't show up until later in the book, it could possibly be a character seen in AFFC... what are some other candidates? Either north, south, or overseas? I know Loras Tyrell and the Hound were ruled out earlier on, but they could have been ruled in by now.

Post party, the informatin is fresh, but the subject is intoxicated.

Q is not dour, but he is very SOLmmme (gd, i am drunk, will fix this when i get hme, sber (and my key is fucked, beer i suspect)) Q is 18, but is nt prne t laughter or jests. He is dedicated t following his duty.

The title cmes frm their ruse - they are pretending t be wine merchants - they all take a turn being the master, and others the servants.

The glden cmpany was mentined as being knwn far and wide to have broken their contract. Other than that, nothing else.

Q was walking by the companies, not intent on joining or recruiting - they were trying to recruit him and his mates.

I am so bad with names - no idea who died and lived - I just am not familiar enough with them to remember their names. I am so sorry. There should be better recaps coming later tomorrow. The net connection here is horrid and I am the only one with a comp - they were all posting from net phones, bless them.

Q is honorable as hell, and a more solmn man than should be expected from a youth his age. He sounds very driven and determined and like he is forty.

One tidbet that floats to the top of my boooze addled brain - George was talking about casting and was commenting on how hard it was to determine who would be special or needed to advance the movie plotline, esp in the first season and esp since the series isn't done yet. He said that Q could or could not be important to the story and since he(George) was a gardener more than an achrictect* it was hard for him to state the importance of a char to the movie line. He also said that if one would try to ajust AFFC and ADWD, the way he wrote the books would negate some combinations - for example Arianne's chaps and Q's - the surprise would be lost if one would read Q's chaps before A's.

***At the time, I took that to mean George has not set Q's role in concrete as of yet. I mean, totally see my sig - if Dany has 3 dragons (or two if the green? is going rogue) she can have husbands/consorts as she wishes. Refesh me - if R+L=J is true, would J be Dany's uncle? cousin? Half sibling?

*George said that some authors are architects, and plan everything in advance before writing, and some are gardeners, who plant a seed, water it with their blood and nuture and shape the blossam that comes out. He says mose authors are half and half, but he is 90% gardener, which is why this book and AFFC is going so hard for him. He writes, shapes, rewrites, has to check what the other chars say, then rewrite again. OFC I think his way is quite the way to go since he has done so well so far.

Yeah, and he compared this to LOTR, which I never thought of in this aspect, but it totally makes sense - at the beginning of both series the peeps were in one place (winterfell or the shire) then they went from a hand to fingers, branching out as each char did what it needed, and the really fucking hard part is getting them to branch back together - thats where the hard plotting lies and thats why Tolkien went from one book to three - moving chars back takes TIME.

George also said that AFFC and ADWD are happening consecutively, but ADWD keeps going past the end of AFFC. No, he wouldn't say where the divergence happened.

Ran, I asked your question about our beloved horselord and George said no comment as of yet. He did give me a WTF look, then I was like...but its a Ran question!! I admire your sources. :D

Oh god, i will clean this up, but George also mentioned how he knew he was totally not going to be able to do the story in 3 books because time wouldn't flow from chap to chap. For example, he spoke of poor ded ned - he killed the traitor, then in the next chap Cat comes to him in the godwood and its been like five minutes since Ned is still cleaning his sword. He said thats where the five year gap really started to fall apart. He couldn't move things along timewise without fucking up the plot. And he spoke of the impossibility of the fabled five year gap, but if you don't know about that yet, you shouldn't be reading this.

Oh, we also had a really fun spirited discussion about the I won't read your fucking manuscript article. George had the wise and reasoned opinion that its not a good idea to discuss your stuff too in depth on the nets with your fans.

OMG, did we have fun. This was far and away a great con. Thanks everyonE!!

**Please correct and add vowels as needed, if needed before I become less booze addled :P. I am off to die of alcholololol poisoning now. :lol:

SPOILER: A few observations

Quentyn seems like kind of a dreamy, awkward guy. Whenever he thinks of Dany, in his mind she is always "the most beautiful woman in the world". And he even thinks at one point how she will need him because she needs Dorne, but she will not love him, and he seems distraught by this. He is not a man who has had much of any success with the ladies aside from a kiss from one of a landed knight's twin daughters.

A few things about Volantis. The harbor is huge and is said to be able to swallow all the islands of Braavos within it, and Quentyn doesn't doubt that after seeing it (although he has never seen Braavos). Secondly, a common mode of transportation in the city is small carts (with a specific name I don't recall) that were pulled by miniature elephants.

As mentioned, the Maester (Kedry), and two of the guards that were sent with Quentyn were killed when the ship they were being transported on was beset by pirates. Quentyn reflects that not only was this a great tragedy for them, but that the loss of Kedry was most acute because he had spent half his life studying the languages and cultures of the free cities and the slave cities. So the difficulty of their task, which was already high, was just made more so.

I think everyone else has covered about what I can remember. It was difficult for me because it's been a while since my last reread, so in the reading something would jog my memory and I'd start thinking about it and lose focus on the actual reading for a few moments.

SPOILER: ADwD

If there is anyone out there who made more detailed notes during the reading, then we should open a Quentyn I thread in the ADwD forum.

Oh, and my thoughts on the chapter (I've not been there, I' just speculating):

As Volantis is supposed to be the Free City that holds yet almost completely to valyrian custom (meaning that they most likely still stick very much to slavery; Pentos only abandoned it 'officially' because the Braavosi forced them to), it's understandable that they don't like Dany's anti-slavery politics.

The whole mercenary recruiting could be either done for the Golden Company (who might try to get rid of Daenerys and take the dragons to finally establish what they deem the true dynasty to the Iron Throne - all under the assumption that there is still a pretender within their ranks who has a sufficient claim to Iron Throne; or they might hire sellswords to join their forces with Daenerys, seeing her as an opportunity to get 'home').

On the other hand, the Volantenes themselves might recruit troops to free Meereen from Dany's rule to reestablish the business connections there. And there is the matter of Aegon refusing the offer of the Volantenes to rebuild Valyria's glory with his three dragons. Volantis (or, rather, the families in power there) might not have forgotten that slight. And with a Targaryen having dragons again, there might have come the time to settle things once and for all with House Targaryen.

The chapter seems to be set during late ASoS or early AFfC, as Quentyn still is unaware of the fact that Lord Tywin is dead. That means that Quentyn's mission started rather early (in AFfC it was never made clear - or I do not remember - when Quentyn was seen leaving Dorne), maybe even before Oberyn left for KL.

And as Quentyn is that early already in Volantis, he, most likely, will reach Daenerys in ADwD. Tyrion, maybe, too. But I don't see Marwyn, Victarion (and Euron?) getting to Slaver's Bay in the part in ADwD that is set after AFfC (especially if there are two Cersei chapters set in that part).

Do we know since when Quentyn know about this new role in his father's plans? And does he remember the old plans about Arianne marrying Viserys, and him become the Ruling Prince of Dorne (and if he does, did he prefer that, or is eager to become Westeros' first Prince Consort; oh, and if thinks about that, is the Dance of Dragons and Rhaenyra mentioned?)?

Does Quentyn think about his father and/or Lord Yronwood in the chapter? Arianne thinks he resembles Doran physically and mentally. Is it explained (or indicated) where he got his sense of duty and honor? And is there any indication that Lord Yronwood has still ill feelings against the Martells (because of Oberyn's actions), or thinks he about the Yronwoods fighting in three Blackfyre rebellions (might be possible with the news about the Golden Company coming to Volantis)?

As Volantis is supposed to be the Free City that holds yet almost completely to valyrian custom (meaning that they most likely still stick very much to slavery; Pentos only abandoned it 'officially' because the Braavosi forced them to), it's understandable that they don't like Dany's anti-slavery politics.

Volantis still speaks Valarian, but a corrupted version of it. I took it to mean word shift rather than accent, etc. Evidently Volantis has five slaves for every free man and the slaves are marked with a variety of signs by a tattoo on their cheek. The innkeeper convinced Q that they must use the dwarf elephant carts to travel, as a man can lose standing by walking. However, the innkeep also had a cousin who just happened to have a (??livery? elephant??) stable. :P

One thing I just remembered - on the way back to the inn, the group tries to get Q to stop and watch a comedy show, but he won't have any of it. He doesn't want laughter, he wants to serve Dorne and get to his bride. The interesting thing about the comedy show? It was two dwarves dressed in tin armour, one mounted on a pig and one on a dog. Same as at the Purple Wedding perhaps?

The whole mercenary recruiting could be either done for the Golden Company (who might try to get rid of Daenerys and take the dragons to finally establish what they deem the true dynasty to the Iron Throne - all under the assumption that there is still a pretender within their ranks who has a sufficient claim to Iron Throne; or they might hire sellswords to join their forces with Daenerys, seeing her as an opportunity to get 'home').

The mercs were shouting out their company names, but ofc I don't remember them. Not ones I remember hearing before.

On the other hand, the Volantenes themselves might recruit troops to free Meereen from Dany's rule to reestablish the business connections there. And there is the matter of Aegon refusing the offer of the Volantenes to rebuild Valyria's glory with his three dragons. Volantis (or, rather, the families in power there) might not have forgotten that slight. And with a Targaryen having dragons again, there might have come the time to settle things once and for all with House Targaryen.

The chapter seems to be set during late ASoS or early AFfC, as Quentyn still is unaware of the fact that Lord Tywin is dead. That means that Quentyn's mission started rather early (in AFfC it was never made clear - or I do not remember - when Quentyn was seen leaving Dorne), maybe even before Oberyn left for KL.

Q was called to his father in the water garden, where the children are, and his father gave him his directions. His internal flashbacks don't indicate a timeline more than it was before Doran left the water garden. Q had also rejected suggestions to return to Dorne because he refused to fail his Father, Dorne, and the most beautiful woman in the world.

Does Quentyn think about his father and/or Lord Yronwood in the chapter? Arianne thinks he resembles Doran physically and mentally. Is it explained (or indicated) where he got his sense of duty and honor? And is there any indication that Lord Yronwood has still ill feelings against the Martells (because of Oberyn's actions), or thinks he about the Yronwoods fighting in three Blackfyre rebellions (might be possible with the news about the Golden Company coming to Volantis)?

I said he has brown hair and a large jaw. Nothing else was indicated.

SPOILER: Q's looksRo is right. There is not much more said about his looks, except that he does not consider himself attractive. He laments his mediocre looks and wonders what "the most beautiful woman in the world" will see in him. His consolation is that she will need Dorne, so his lack of looks, charm, etc. won't matter.

SPOILER: For the ADWD chapter reading:There wasn't a whole lot of description on Quentyn's looks but he was definitely described as being more subdued and less dynamic than his traveling companions. And I would bet my left kidney that the plan is to join a sellsword company to make the trip. It makes the most sense.

SPOILER: ADwDQ feared that Tywin had sent assassins after Dany, but it always seemed speculative. He didn't KNOW that there were assassins. He just feared there were.

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Since I was one of those asking for the new thread, I made some cut and paste. Hope helps :)

COMPILATION (by Jughead of the Round):

Awesome!!!

Thanks guys!!

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At least! Thanks so much guys! I was waiting for that topic for some time now ;)

And yes, Quentyn seems much more Doran-like, though I have to say I like what we've seen so far. I suppose a character like this was unavoidable since the niche was completely empty... For the people saying he lacks Martell fire though -- I like the stubbornness Quentyn has shown here -- the refusal to give up and fail no matter what, the determination and dedication to the task at hand; that reminds me of both Oberyn and Doran and imho shows a bit of the southern fierceness.

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At least! Thanks so much guys! I was waiting for that topic for some time now ;)

And yes, Quentyn seems much more Doran-like, though I have to say I like what we've seen so far. I suppose a character like this was unavoidable since the niche was completely empty... For the people saying he lacks Martell fire though -- I like the stubbornness Quentyn has shown here -- the refusal to give up and fail no matter what, the determination and dedication to the task at hand; that reminds me of both Oberyn and Doran and imho shows a bit of the southern fierceness.

Yes, I like him already.

Dutiful and stubborn, yet sort of shy and unsure, with no luck with women, not super-good looking, I find him pretty charming. I wonder what Dany would think about such a suitor, completely unlike the men she was attracted to so far. Would she appreciate his dedication? Would she find his lack of sexual experience disappointing? Or exciting?.. I can't wait to see them meet.

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Yes, I like him already.

Dutiful and stubborn, yet sort of shy and unsure, with no luck with women, not super-good looking, I find him pretty charming. I wonder what Dany would think about such a suitor, completely unlike the men she was attracted to so far. Would she appreciate his dedication? Would she find his lack of sexual experience disappointing? Or exciting?.. I can't wait to see them meet.

If the Undying Ones' prophecy is to be believed, I guess she will definitely not be excited... At least, not to the point to love or bed him. Given that the first of the "mounts must you ride"/"bride of fire" visions is Drogo and the third is Jon, I can't see fitting to Quentyn the descriptions "to dread" and "a corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly"... Unless the disease cited by GRRM will somehow influencing the vision (a lover infected and then killed by the disease, maybe vectoring it to Meereen, could fit the description independently by his starting traits).

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"Quentyn is a solemn young man of 18, who is not prone to laughter or jests. He is dedicated to fulfilling his duty. Quentyn is also somewhat dreamy and awkward. In his mind, he thinks of Daenerys as the most beautiful woman in the world. He thinks how she will need him because she needs Dorne, but she will not love him, and he is distraught by this."

Sounds a lot like Ned. Dutiful and honor-bound to marry a girl he does not think will love him, kind of like Ned and Catelyn. Ned always felt inferior to Brandon.

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There's no indication that he feels inferior to Arianne (it would be ironic if he did!), he probably think that he's not particularly attractive and since he lacks an extroverted disposision he believes that Dany won't love him.

He does sound like Ned, but the dreamy and awkward part may also suggest a resemlance to Rhaegar.

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Quentyn sounds like a young Eddard too, and a refreshing contrast to the trite, annoying Dornish characters we're used to (Doran is the exception).

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There's no indication that he feels inferior to Arianne (it would be ironic if he did!), he probably think that he's not particularly attractive and since he lacks an extroverted disposision he believes that Dany won't love him.

He does sound like Ned, but the dreamy and awkward part may also suggest a resemlance to Rhaegar.

I intended my mention of Brandon to show a source of Ned's insecurity about Catelyn. Sorry if I didn't connect my thoughts well. As for dreamy = Rhaegar, Ned always seemed to me to be dreamer that was beat down by reality. The awkward part also brings to mind Jojen/Meera's Harrenhal story.

Either way, Quentyn seems like a decent guy, and I hope he survives the book. SOIAF could use a couple of straight-arrow characters, if only to shake things up. When everyone has an xanatos gambit, it's hard to get invested in a character. Perhaps that's why I like Victarion so much.

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Ned always seemed to me to be dreamer that was beat down by reality. The awkward part also brings to mind Jojen/Meera's Harrenhal story.

Either way, Quentyn seems like a decent guy, and I hope he survives the book. SOIAF could use a couple of straight-arrow characters, if only to shake things up.

Yes I can see your point. Perhaps Quentyn is meant to resemble both Ned and Rhaegar. Anyway I agree on your hope.

Except about Victarion, can't stand him.

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I've always thought that Ned and Rhaegar could have traded Morrissey albums as teenagers ;)

It'll be interesting to see what kind of spin, if any, Quentyn offers on the recurring woman-on-a-pedestal motif.

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Except about Victarion, can't stand him.

That's your loss. Perhaps a defense of Victarion is meant for a different thread. Anyways, I'm pretty pumped whenever I see a character that isn't scheming 24/7. Martin tries so hard to be unpredictable that he becomes predictable.

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I've always thought that Ned and Rhaegar could have traded Morrissey albums as teenagers ;)

It'll be interesting to see what kind of spin, if any, Quentyn offers on the recurring woman-on-a-pedestal motif.

I have no idea who Morrissey is, but I'd say Rhaegar listens to "Bright Eyes," and Ned listens to "Primordial."

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That's your loss. Perhaps a defense of Victarion is meant for a different thread. Anyways, I'm pretty pumped whenever I see a character that isn't scheming 24/7.

That's OT, of course, but it's most definitely not his loss, more like a reasonable reaction to a wife-murdering character, no matter if he loves to scheme or not.

As for the chapter, very intriguing. Sounds like my type of character :) And now I can't wait for ADWD, ugh :(

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That's OT, of course, but it's most definitely not his loss, more like a reasonable reaction to a wife-murdering character, no matter if he loves to scheme or not.

That has absolutely nothing to do with deciding whether or not to like the character. Victarion may be an asshole, but he's a well-conceived character, honorable in the ironmen fashion, and enjoyable to read. I'm going to assume that you're one of those people who require sympathetic characters in order to enjoy a story.

But anyways, Quentyn = Ned 2.0. I wonder what that will do to Jon-Dany shippers? If Dany doesn't liek Q, I doubt she'll like our favorite bastard.

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Quentyn's chapters will be a really good read, I'm sure. ASOIAF has been overdosed with bitchy, constantly scheming characters (Arianne was incredibly annoying to read and we could've done without her failed scheme), so a young Eddard would be a fresh breath.

I don't want Dany to like Victarion. He's a huge asshole for beating his wife to death, and it's a terrible excuse that "Euron made me do it". Victarion is a member of the ruling family of the Iron Islands and their greatest warrior as well, so it wouldn't affect his social standing much if he became known as "that guy who got cheated on by his wife". He could have sent her away and left it at that.

I don't require a sympathetic POV character to like a book, but Victarion was really boring as well. "Aye, the most beautiful woman in the world, just for me". No, Victarion, you deserve to be analed by Euron and then die.

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While I agree that Victarion is a well conceinved character, and quite fresh straightforward and unscheming ways (which are depriving him of supporters btw) I simply don't like his entire point of view as ironborn. I simply hate the entire iroborn culture of thievery and i have a hard time liking anyone from the Iron Islands, except the Reader.

My loss, perhaps.

As for Quentyn, he may be similar to Ned, but I think that Jon always was a bit different form Eddard and he is becoming more flexible and ruthless. He'll end up being quite different from Eddard Stark in many ways.

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