The Robert Baratheon Hate thread

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Old King Bob was basically the wrong guy for the job. I can't blame him for being in love with Lyanna and despising Cercei because of it (it was a political marraige people, he had no obligation to feel anything for her).

Sure, he was a shitty king, but I can't hate him for that. It was out of his control really. I think its sad, because the crown seems to have ruined him as a person. The guy Ned meets in Game of Thrones certainly isn't the one he remembers.

[YoDaddy]

hear hear!

Also for being a incompetent and wasteful ruler (Thats not abstract money! Its taxes! Taxes are fuckng sacred.:commie:)

He sounds like he should be president of the US!

[dolorouseddwasright]

I don't hate Robert. I just think he wasn't king material. The younger warrior version of Robert was really cool. He had a warhammer and he kicked ass. As a ruler and administrator he sucked. He left too much to his underlings without taking an interest in what was going on. I think he would have done this if the Rebellion hadn't have happened too. If he had just been Lord of Storm's End he would still have left everything to others.

I think the younger Robert as warrior can be somewhat admired. He fought with skill and bravery. But he just wasn't a leader. I wonder if Ned realized that. Maybe Ned was negligent in his duty by letting such a non-ruler take over the realm. That is why Ned died in AGOT, not because of his treason towards Joffrey, but because of his treason towards the realm by letting such an unfit ruler as Robert be in charge.

[georgeforeman]

Hatred is the wrong thing to feel for Robert. Disdain? Perhaps. Pity? Sure. But not hatred. He (like most people in this series) was put in a situation that was less than ideal. He was a man who loved booze, women, and fighting. But instead of getting to do that, he was duty-bound to try to save the realm from a bat-shit insane ruler who was burning people right and left and his heir, who had apparently run off with Robert's betrothed. So yeah. He fought a war and because of circumstance (Baratheons apparently intermarried with Targs more than Starks or Aryns) declared for the thrown. I don't doubt he quite enjoyed the idea of being a king, but the point is, he ended up in that position due to circumstance and honorable intentions.

Because of the same reasons, he ended up in a political marriage with a women he didn't love and did not love him. Again, this was his choice, but it was also the "right" thing to do for the good of the realm. It's hard to fault him for this stuff.

As for what he did once this had all happened, well, he was certainly not a good ruler. And no one would ever say he was a good husband. But at the same time, I think he probably get slagged more than he should. Or perhaps more accurately, I think Cersei doesn't get slagged enough. For all of the crappy things he did as far as hitting her and stuff, is there any doubt that she wasn't just as bad at messing with him emotionally? She's the most manipulative woman in the series, and it would be perfectly in character for her to spend the duration of their marriage manipulating him. It's wrong to characterize their relationship as one of abuser/victim. I find it far more plausible that they were both abusing eachother at every opportunity. Hell, it sounds like the only time Robert had the upper hand (if you don't mind the phrase) was when he was drunk and unafraid of the consequences of his actions. The rest of the time, it was "do what Cersei wants or you'll pay for it later". Not that this justifies beating up your wife. I'm just saying it's wrong to characterize Robert as a sadist.

[Rhaegar's Rubies]

I remember Martin explaining the Stannis-Dragonstone situation thusly:

Stannis always resented being given Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End, and took that as a slight... but it's not necessarily true that Robert meant it that way. The Targaryen heir apparent had always been titled Prince of Dragonstone. By making Stannis the Lord of Dragonstone, Robert affirmed his brother's status as heir (which he was, until Joff's birth a few years later). Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Baratheon_Brothers/

If only Robert had spelled out his intentions a bit better to Stannis.

Robert Baratheon is a sad sack of a human being. Although, I know people with Robert-type personalities, and I can see how he can be so lovable, especially in his younger, good-looking days. He's like the star quarterback in high school that won class president, based on his popularity and not necessarily his desire to be class president, and then he comes back to the 20 year reunion, fat and poor and pathetic, but still living out his glory days in his head, unable to live in the present.

[Antonius Pius]

I agree that Robert is a bad king, there's no denying it, but I think Cersei is more evil. The Lannisters bear a lot of responsibility for the break out of civil war after Robert's death, if not all.

Also, I think Cersei is what she is and she's always been this way. Tyrion's POV has provided with all the information we need to know of what Cersei was like as a child. She can blame Robert for why she had to run to Jaime, but really I suspect she would've ended up there sooner or later regardless.

Cersei killed her own friend Melara to prevent a prophecy from coming true, she admits to herself that she used to torment baby Tyrion to ease her own upset feelings, and we have Oberyn's testimony that she wrenched Tyrion's little baby penis. In short, she's a vile sadistic person from the get go.

Robert was bad husband, an abusive husband guilty of raping his own wife. In our day and time, for a wife in that situation to pursue an extra-marital romance may seem poetic justice (as stated by someone up-thread); in a medieval setting, where parentage and nepotism decides who rules, it's alo high treason.

I agree Robert should shoulder a significant portion of the blame for his negligence and incompetence. I just know there is no War of Kings without the actions of the Lannisters and Cersei in particular.

Agreed. As Tyrion said, it would have been enough for Cersei to have ONE of Robert's babies and no-one would doubt her other kids' parentage, but then she wouldn't be Cersei.

[Horza]

It's hard to hate Brian Blessed.

[TheEvilKing]

Robert is awesome, one of my favourite characters. He just wants to get drunk and fuck all the time, like a true King. None of this "administering the realm" bullcrap. That's what Hands are for.

Also, he beat Rhaegar Targaryen, one-on-one. In the middle of a river. That's 100 points right there.

[arek]

This thread is looooooong overdue.

Robert Baratheon was not evil, he was not sadistic, cruel, or mean in how he ruled (turned out he was all 3 to Cersei).

But he was myopic, lazy, completely indifferent to the course and trajectory of his realm. He was a terrible ruler, an indifferent judge and a lazy controller of his state. In the 15 years since his victory on the Trident Robert:

1. Beggared the realm;

2. Allowed disunion to spread to, effectively, all 7 kingdoms;

3. Allowed the realm to become, in effect, a wholly owned subsidiary of House Lannister (I have nothing against Tywin, frankly; but no ONE kingdom should have as much power in Wesetroes as the Lannisters did in the 15 years of Robert's reign);

4. Ignored the troubles of the ream until they blew up in his face;

5. Detached himself from any allies;

6. Allowed miscreants and dealmakers to take over his kingdom.

But privately, Robert the Unruly was even worse. He whored his whole life, planting bastards throughout the realm in direct danger to (who he thought were) his own trueborn children, thus potentially jeopardizing the realm; he treated Cersei like crap; beat her; whispered his dead betrothed's name to her; was perpetually drunk and effectively killed himself.

In the 1/2 of ONE book we see Robert:

-He ordered Ned to Kill Lady (go fuck yourself, Robert. Seriously).

-He hit Cersei;

-He does not recall Jaime for the attack on Ned's men in KL (this warranted AT LEAST an investigation);

-He does not call Tywin nor Cat for disturbing the King's peace;

-He spends money without regard when he knows or should have known that the realm is destitute;

-Flaunts his affection for his long dead betrothed right in front of Cersei (I mean, Robert, you are going to be in Winterfell for 2 weeks- the crypts can't wait until your wife is not... right the fuck there, in broad daylight with everyone watching? Jerk).

Now, I know Robert had a lot going against him. But Targs reigned over Westeros for 300 years before they had a back breaking war of succession; Robert's realm lasted all of 13 years under him. That's hardly a noteworthy accomplishment.

I know Robert is neither sadistic or cruel same way as Dany, Sansa & Cat arent.

Im not denying there are worse people in Martins book, but I just hate the way even the Brotherhood without banners seem to worship him, they talk about protecting the smallfolk in Roberts name from the likes of Gregor yet they forget Robert condonned one of Ser Gregors most infamous acts.

There were wars when the Targs landed

War of conquest, Faith uprising, The Dance, COnquest of Dorne, Blackfyre rebellion, War of the nine penny kings...

but the Targs did more good then bad to Westoras

United seven kingdoms that were constantly at war with one another, (this btw was the main reason Ironman would raid and pillage more easily)

Ended Black Harrens reign

Disarmed the faith

Ended Ironborn pirateing (until Aerys I reign, but stopped it again then)

Gifted Night watch with new gift

Ended 1st night priv of the nobles

Increased trade between the once divided regions.

When Robert came to the throne, six years later the Ironman began raiding again

He bankrupted the realm and ended up leaving it so the Lannisters could use this to gain more power

The KG was at its most worse (cept Barristan)

9 years of peace and then Another civil war erupts . Aerys reign gave the realm more peace then Robert

[Alexia]

Robert was bad husband, an abusive husband guilty of raping his own wife. In our day and time, for a wife in that situation to pursue an extra-marital romance may seem poetic justice (as stated by someone up-thread); in a medieval setting, where parentage and nepotism decides who rules, it's alo high treason.

So? Robert committed high treason himself; why should he be exempt?

What goes around, comes around. :commie:

[Snorki]

So? Robert committed high treason himself; why should he be exempt?

What goes around, comes around. :commie:

It's not high treason if a man does it. :smileysex:

If a man sleep around and has children, they are bastards and have no place in the succession (unless you legitimize them). While if the queen has illicit affairs it is harder to determine who the real father is. It is a double standard but that's what you have if you don't invent paternity tests.

[Alexia]

I wasn't referring to Robert's cheating. I was referring to Robert's rebellion against the last royal family, in which he had even the babes (dragonspawn) massacred.

If he commits high treason, why should he expect to be exempt from such?

[YoDaddy]

In layman's terms, (cause that is about as eloquent as I think) Robert is the kind of guy, as a man, you'd love to have as a friend. He'd back you in troublesome situations, no questions asked, just because you are his friend. Like someone said above, he is the exact epitomy of a guy who couldn't grow up. While the rest of us got married, are raising children, and working in one respect or another, Robert didn't change. I pity him, but how far can you let it go?

The sad thing is that he knows it and felt pressed into doing way more than he wanted. (kinda like the kid forced into the family business, when he wants to be a poet, or some shit like that) Robert is a battle commander and fierce warrior, but not a statesmen or family man. There is something to be said about living majorly unhappy yet living for what others want or expect of you. You know you are unhappy, you know you are a shit husband, a poor ruler, a bad dad, etc....but there is no way OUT! Can he walk away? No. Can he divorce the queen and go off adventuring like he wanted to at the beginning of GoT? No. (and he would have if Ned said, "Let's Go!")

Now he's got this conniving bitch of a wife, little shits for kids, and in-laws who manipulate him to no end. What does he have to fight back? Aside from the occasional cuffing of Cersei, nothing. (doesn't mean I condone it or think it's remotely right) He is the wrong man for the job. He knows it, the nobles know it, the coucil knows it, and his smallfolk know it. Unfortunately, HE HAS NO WAY OUT, and he's miserable. So cut the guy a little slack, not alot, but some.

While he did apply for the job, it was to avenge his misguided and perceived love of Lyanna, to avenge Rickard and Brandon Stark, and to save their own lives from a mad king. No truer friend you'll find. ROBERT was the man who paid the ultimate price for the realm. I didn't see anyone else, Ned included, take the throne.

[Spastic Plastic]

Robert would have killed those Targaryen kids himself if Tywin hadn't done it for him. No one wants to fight a second war when they've grown up.

I don't hate Robert, but he's far from my favorite character (I agree that flaunting his Lyanna obsession in front of his family was pretty callous). He's just an overgrown teenage boy put in the wrong position. If I was King, I'd also drink and get laid as much as I could.

Robert says at one point that Ned or Jon Arryn should have been King instead, but now that I've reread the series I have serious doubts about that. Ned got himself killed for being...well, stupid. Jon Arryn gifted the court with Cersei, Littlefinger and Janos Slynt. At least Robert knew he was a terrible ruler and let people like Varys do the ruling for him.

Tywin would actually be the best King. He is one of the most evil men in this series, but most of his large-scale atrocities are done to advance House Lannister's power. If Lannister became the royal house, Westeros would be more peaceful. If he was King, Tywin would be remembered as a great lawmaker and statesman, sort of like Jaehaerys.

[Snorki]

YoDaddy,

well if he had been able to put his rage aside, he could have negotiated with Rhaegar and he would never have to become king.

I always wondered why nobody tried to end Robert's Rebellion with diplomacy. Sure, Aery or Robert would never stand for it, but Rhaegar or Ned or Jon Arryn would.

[Dreadwolf]

I do not hate Robert and IDK what else can I say:

Yet I would take the liberty to do that on a fictional character:

Robert Bartatheon was hardly the worst person in the world of ASOIAF and he was definitely not evil. His ugly moments were perhaps hitting Cersei and leaving Lady to be executed. While his superior minute was sending his personal maester to take care for Baristan Selmy at the Trident. Notwithstanding of the above laziness, irresponsibility and flightiness are the Ruler*s besetting sins. IMO It is to demonstrate that good guys, especially thouse being lazy and generally apathetic (but in the same time full of hormones) are not so good guys at all.

1. Lust

2. Gluttony

3. Greed

4. Sloth

5. Wrath

6. Envy

7. Pride

Well if you allow me with a bit of exaggeration to judge the good king Robert from the perspective of the catholic dogmas on the Seven Deadly Sins we would probably notice that

1. He was extremely lustful – no arguments here.

He was also extravagant/ big spender. Ned was really amazed what had happened for the last 16 years so that exchequer (full of gold after disposal of the mad king Aerys) become empty. And the money went for tourneys, hunt, feasts and all kind of weird entertainments;

2. He was first class glutton and drunkard;

3. Gold and money never concerned him. Still He was always greedy for women, wine and food.;

4. About anything which did not involve fighting – He was always relaying on his <Hand> (Jon, Ned) to do the job. He was slothful to exercise his main job – ruling the kingdom; Irresponsible, inert and uninterested too.

5. Uncontrollable Wrath was one of his trade marks – perhaps in line with his family motto.

6. He did envy Rhaegar even for that he was <now> with Lyanna.

7. May be not the Lannister*s Pride but yet as it is the King*s professional deformation hence he had too much of it.

[snake]

Maybe if he had thought of being faithful to her, she would have returned the courtesy? After all, she didn't restart her relationship with Jaime until after he'd said another woman's name on their wedding night, and gone off to sleep with another woman when they were on a visit of state. Forgive me for not crying any tears for him.

This is just sooooo wrong.

Cersei and the Kingslayer were having sexual relations all their lives. Before she married Robert, while she was married to Robert and after Robert was dead. It wasn't his infidelity that drove her into the arms of her brother.

You also fail to realize that Cersei hated Robert before they were wed. IN AFfC she thought on how she hated him for killing Rhaegar and made him pay for it. The fact that the man she was made to marry and the man she pined for both seemed to want Lyanna over her only made things worse for Cersei.

[snake]

YoDaddy,

well if he had been able to put his rage aside, he could have negotiated with Rhaegar and he would never have to become king.

I always wondered why nobody tried to end Robert's Rebellion with diplomacy. Sure, Aery or Robert would never stand for it, but Rhaegar or Ned or Jon Arryn would.

I doubt Rhaegar or Aerys were in the mood to negotiate. Nor were the rebels. You put down rebellions with fire and sword not with diplomats.

[AHackeySackOfIceAndFire]

Robert would have killed those Targaryen kids himself if Tywin hadn't done it for him. No one wants to fight a second war when they've grown up.

I don't hate Robert, but he's far from my favorite character (I agree that flaunting his Lyanna obsession in front of his family was pretty callous). He's just an overgrown teenage boy put in the wrong position. If I was King, I'd also drink and get laid as much as I could.

Robert says at one point that Ned or Jon Arryn should have been King instead, but now that I've reread the series I have serious doubts about that. Ned got himself killed for being...well, stupid. Jon Arryn gifted the court with Cersei, Littlefinger and Janos Slynt. At least Robert knew he was a terrible ruler and let people like Varys do the ruling for him.

Tywin would actually be the best King. He is one of the most evil men in this series, but most of his large-scale atrocities are done to advance House Lannister's power. If Lannister became the royal house, Westeros would be more peaceful. If he was King, Tywin would be remembered as a great lawmaker and statesman, sort of like Jaehaerys.

Tywin had already ruled as hand, and he was great at it. It seems to me that he would have continued to be the best man to be King. And if he was king, there wouldn't be any destructive outlets for his ambition. he's not a sadist.

The circumstances prevented him from being king, though. He didn't have any claim, he would have alienated Dorne by being associated with the death of Elia, his son was the Kingslayer, he didn't participate in most of the war.

So we are left with Robert. Like many people have said, I pity him more than anything else. I'm curious to find out at what point it was decided that it was "Robert's Rebellion" and not "Jon's Rebellion" or "Eddard's Rebellion."

[Senta Signora]

It was Robert's Rebellion because Robert became the king. Or am I hopelessly wrong?