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A Thread for Small Questions III


Lady Blackfish

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Are there any good possibilities for the identity of the squire killed with Polliver and the Tickler, or was he just some random boy unrelated to the rest of the plot?

ETA: the only prospect I could come up with is Petyr Pimple, but that would mean that the outlaws found him stabbed to death and decided to ransom him and carry him all the way up to Oldstones and hang his corpse.

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I recently finished AFFC and I'm confused about the Pate thing. Didn't the guy (possibly faceless man) kill Pate at the beginning? I remember the whole deal about asking if he was a thief and I was pretty sure the FM killed him after. Then at the end of the book, when Sam is at the Citadel and meets the Mage, there is someone named Pate. Am I remembering this wrong?

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I recently finished AFFC and I'm confused about the Pate thing. Didn't the guy (possibly faceless man) kill Pate at the beginning? I remember the whole deal about asking if he was a thief and I was pretty sure the FM killed him after. Then at the end of the book, when Sam is at the Citadel and meets the Mage, there is someone named Pate. Am I remembering this wrong?

You're right. the faceless man took his Pate's identity after he killed him. I think this person might also be Jaqen H'ghar

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You're right. the faceless man took his Pate's identity after he killed him. I think this person might also be Jaqen H'ghar

mkay, so why would a FM take the identity of a citadel novice (whatever they are called)? I mean, I know they change they way they look but I always took it that they would transform so they could fit in, or get access to places. I didn't think they could change their looks so perfectly that their friends wouldn't notice the difference. I guess this seemed like kind of a small pebble in the story but it keeps rolling around in my head and I don't see this discussed much (in my lurking). I guess I just wonder what opinions people have on that little part of the story. Did the FM need the key? If he was going to change into Pate than couldn't he have just killed him and taken it after took his identity. If he has assumed Pate, what's the point? Is he after someone else. I get that people think the FM is Jaqen but we really don't know any other FM.

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Are there any good possibilities for the identity of the squire killed with Polliver and the Tickler, or was he just some random boy unrelated to the rest of the plot?

ETA: the only prospect I could come up with is Petyr Pimple, but that would mean that the outlaws found him stabbed to death and decided to ransom him and carry him all the way up to Oldstones and hang his corpse.

The boy killed with Polliver and the Tickler was just Gregor's squire, nobody important to the plot. He was at the inn/brothel because Gregor wanted to get him laid.

I actually felt bad for that kid....

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And if the Enormity That Rides wants to get you laid, you better go and do it, or else you'll get laid. Out. On a slab. In a morgue somewhere.

My question is does anyone remember the book where Jaime thinks about he would have killed (Arya? Mycah?) if he had gotten to her first? It was a chapter from his POV and he's reminiscing about how he used to be under Cersei's thumb.

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I guess this seemed like kind of a small pebble in the story but it keeps rolling around in my head and I don't see this discussed much (in my lurking). I guess I just wonder what opinions people have on that little part of the story.
There is no answer, we just don't have enough elements, that's why it's not discussed, there is nothing to discuss. And this isn't a small question if it involves everyone to write what is essentially fan-fiction.

The boy killed with Polliver and the Tickler was just Gregor's squire, nobody important to the plot. He was at the inn/brothel because Gregor wanted to get him laid.
He was definitely not Gregor's squire, since Gregor had already departed for KL at this time (this is when Arya learns that Sansa killed Joffrey and disappeared).

We learn in AFFC, when Jaime talks to Raff, that he was a Sarsfield. Maybe the son, but in any case a relative of Melwyn Sarsfield, the commander of the Jaime's mounted archers. (Melwyn Sarsfield is married with the daughter of Harys Swift, who's himself Kevan's godfather)

My question is does anyone remember the book where Jaime thinks about he would have killed (Arya? Mycah?) if he had gotten to her first? It was a chapter from his POV and he's reminiscing about how he used to be under Cersei's thumb.

AFFC, Jaime talking to Ilyn Payne at Darry, just after his interview with Lancel in the sept.:

“As I was fucking her, Cersei cried, ‘I want.’ I thought that she meant me, but it was the Stark girl that she wanted, maimed or dead.” The things I do for love. “It was only by chance that Stark’s own men found the girl before me. If I had come on her first . . .”

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Through obsessively studying those parts in my e-book ASOS and ACOK, I'm still pretty sure that the boy was Gregor's squire. The squire is also in Chiswyck's funny little story, where his first (unsuccessful) attempt to lose his virginity ends with the girl's father complaining...and Gregor raping the girl.

Gregor comes alone to King's Landing. He makes the Kettleblacks act as his squires before the Oberyn fight.

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Guest Other-in-Law

It makes sense that he'd be Gregor's Squire, since who else in Gregor's band are knights? Raff, Polliver, the Tickler, etc are all just lowly men at arms. I imagine he may have been away when Gregor got the summons, or else the Mountain just didn't feel like playing babysitter alone for the trip back to the capital.

And he's definitely a Sarsfied; we knew it in aSoS when his blazon was described, and then it was confirmed in aFfC.

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Is anyone else stricken weird that nothing is ever revealed about Eddard's mother? Martin has a way of being very descriptive about all members of a given house. But not here. How come?

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Thanks EB, OiL, and TFJ. I thought it had been revealed who the squire was but couldn't find the place. I don't know where else the Sarsfield heraldry is described in the series (a green arrow is seen by Arya in Harrenhal), but the squire's cloak is described in ASoS and his house is identified by Raff in AFfC (that might be the only way the heraldry is actually described in the series).

I checked the Chiswyck scene as well -- that squire is identified as Joss Stilwood. Either the Mountain changed squires or the Sarsfield boy was someone else's squire.

None of this has much relevance to any big theory. I just like appreciating all of the detail that Martin uses and the way the different storylines intersect in these very tangential ways.

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Guest Other-in-Law

I thought it had been revealed who the squire was but couldn't find the place. I don't know where else the Sarsfield heraldry is described in the series (a green arrow is seen by Arya in Harrenhal), but the squire's cloak is described in ASoS and his house is identified by Raff in AFfC (that might be the only way the heraldry is actually described in the series).

In addition to the series itself, GRRM has provided extensive heraldic information about the various noble houses...though with the caveat that these things are subject to change until definitely nailed down within the series (eg: House Butterwell was originally listed as a Reach house, and House Borrel originally had a fish skeleton instead of a crab).

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When did the rains of Castamere occur? IIRC Tywin was pretty young, is it possible that his father (Tytos?) was still alive? In short, how did the did the chain of events fold out?

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I have a question.

I just started this series. Getting a ways into Game of Thrones. Now there is this other land mass other than Westros, one across the sea from it. Is their a Map of this place? Im just curious what that area looks like.

Thanks for any help. Figured this is a good spot for the question instead of making a whole new thread.

I am REALLY enjoying the book so far.

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I have a question.

I just started this series. Getting a ways into Game of Thrones. Now there is this other land mass other than Westros, one across the sea from it. Is their a Map of this place? Im just curious what that area looks like.

Thanks for any help. Figured this is a good spot for the question instead of making a whole new thread.

I am REALLY enjoying the book so far.

You may want to steer clear of much of the board to avoid spoilers then (not being unfriendly, but there are huge plot revelations in the books that can be spoiled easily if you are not careful).

The eastern continent is called Essos (not by anyone in the books, but it's the name Martin has given it). There is no 'canon' map of the whole landmass, though a map of the central-southern region around Slaver's Bay appears in Book 3. Some of the action right at the very end of AGoT actually happens right at the north-eastern edge of this map or a little way beyond it (upriver from Meereen). A map of the Free Cities region, including Pentos, Qohor and Norvos which Daenerys passes through, will appear in Book 5.

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When did the rains of Castamere occur? IIRC Tywin was pretty young, is it possible that his father (Tytos?) was still alive? In short, how did the did the chain of events fold out?

I think it's not totally clear whether Tywin was the lord at that point or just acting in his usual "take charge" manner and superseding his father's authority. Here is a good summary (of the incomplete details given in the books).

I have a question.

I just started this series. Getting a ways into Game of Thrones. Now there is this other land mass other than Westros, one across the sea from it. Is their a Map of this place? Im just curious what that area looks like.

Thanks for any help. Figured this is a good spot for the question instead of making a whole new thread.

I am REALLY enjoying the book so far.

There is a map of part of it in A Storm of Swords. A more complete map has been promised with the fifth book, A Dance with Dragons. Here is a collection of the canonical maps appearing in the published books as well as some imaginative completions of the parts of the map that have not been published.

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You may want to steer clear of much of the board to avoid spoilers then (not being unfriendly, but there are huge plot revelations in the books that can be spoiled easily if you are not careful).

The eastern continent is called Essos (not by anyone in the books, but it's the name Martin has given it). There is no 'canon' map of the whole landmass, though a map of the central-southern region around Slaver's Bay appears in Book 3. Some of the action right at the very end of AGoT actually happens right at the north-eastern edge of this map or a little way beyond it (upriver from Meereen). A map of the Free Cities region, including Pentos, Qohor and Norvos which Daenerys passes through, will appear in Book 5.

Well I just wanted to know about the land mass. I will not be browsing around until Im done with the book or good and into one of the others.

Thanks for the reply and also thanks to Schrecklich as well.

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mkay, so why would a FM take the identity of a citadel novice (whatever they are called)? I mean, I know they change they way they look but I always took it that they would transform so they could fit in, or get access to places. I didn't think they could change their looks so perfectly that their friends wouldn't notice the difference. I guess this seemed like kind of a small pebble in the story but it keeps rolling around in my head and I don't see this discussed much (in my lurking). I guess I just wonder what opinions people have on that little part of the story. Did the FM need the key? If he was going to change into Pate than couldn't he have just killed him and taken it after took his identity. If he has assumed Pate, what's the point? Is he after someone else. I get that people think the FM is Jaqen but we really don't know any other FM.

AFFC Spoilers

Why Fake Pate takes the identity of a citadel novice isn't yet clear. Fake Pate's behaviour seems to be different from Pate's, but I get the impression that his appearance is close enough to the real Pate to fool even those close to him.

I feel that the key was only important because it makes Pate a thief - no longer "innocent". I just get the feeling that that distinction was important to Fake Pate. Like you said, he could have acquired the key in other ways.

Considering that the Alchemist's (a.k.a. Fake Pate) appearance matches what Jaqen looked like the last time he last time he appeared in the series, it's not likely it's another FM.

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