A Thread for Small Questions III

[Datepalm]

Where did Cersei's irrational hatred towards the Tyrells come from? I was reading the scene where Tommen is jousting and it seems a bit odd.

theres the bit about being supplanted by a younger and fairer queen, for one, for which Margaery is a shoe-in, to explain the enmity on a personal level. They're also a fairly close and relatively loving family with a markedly different court culture from the Lannister family dysfunctionality and heirarchism and isolationism in terms of ladies in waiting, retainers, lackeys and so on, which probably also annoys her.

And they're clear political rivals - admittedly their power is from marrying into the ruling family, but once they're in, they want the regency and the informal family influence, which is exactly the only position left to her to draw power from.

[Dreadwolf]

I fully agree with above explanation and would like just to suggest that Cersei IMO was also a pathological case of a sick-jealous mother in law. In addition to all political and prophecy reasons she looked at Marge and Loras as of a couple of dangerous rivals for her son*s attraction. Cersei has never had good feelings towards lady Olenna as well. The Queen Regent has been never tolerating insults. (some of these were implicit. Another one of Olena*s <crimes> would be that - evenif we know the last thing Cersei would wish was a new happy mariage, the fact remains that - Robert*s widow was considered unworthy for the heir of Highgarden - though I am not sure if Tywin ever shared that knowledge with his sweet daughter)

[Knight of the CIC]

First time poster, with a question regarding Jamie Lannister at the starts of AGoT.

A member of the Kingsguard forswears all lands, titles, inheritances, et cetera.

Yet early on in AGoT, when Robert and Ned are discussing Robert Arryn's claim to the Warden of the East, Robert has discussed naming Jamie Lannister as the Warden. Ned says this is bad, because when Tywin dies, that would make Jamie the Warden of both East and West.

Also, after Ned is attacked by Jamie, and he's visited by Robert while recovering, Robert says something about how if Ned rejects the chain of the hand once more he'll give it to Jamie.

Additionally, when everyone's in Winterfell for the King's visit, Jamie's always wearing Lannister gold and crimson, never the white.

My question, is at the start of AGoT, before he's named as the Lord Commander by Joffey, is Jamie at that point a member of the Kingsguard or not? One would think that Robert would have kicked him out after he murdered Aerys, but I could have sworn I saw several other mentions in that book (none I can quote at the moment) about how Jamie was indeed still considered a member of the Kingsguard.

Can anyone explain to me what gives?

The Wardenships are royal offices that technically do not confer any land. By tradition, the Wardenships were given to the Lords Paramount of each area (Ned was Warden of the North, Tywin Warden of the West, Mace Warden of the East, etc). However, being royal offices they serve at the King's discretion and can be removed and transferred to someone else just like how Robert Arryn was removed from Wardenship of the East and Wardenship of the West passed to Daven instead of one of Tywin's line.

Also the Kingsguard have a tradition of being great military commanders, I think that is said in either Ned or Bran's POV in AGOT so Jaime being named Warden (overall leader of that sectors forces) isn't unheard of.

[Mara Jade]

A member of the Kingsguard forswears all lands, titles, inheritances, et cetera.

Yet early on in AGoT, when Robert and Ned are discussing Robert Arryn's claim to the Warden of the East, Robert has discussed naming Jamie Lannister as the Warden. Ned says this is bad, because when Tywin dies, that would make Jamie the Warden of both East and West.

Also, after Ned is attacked by Jamie, and he's visited by Robert while recovering, Robert says something about how if Ned rejects the chain of the hand once more he'll give it to Jamie.

Additionally, when everyone's in Winterfell for the King's visit, Jamie's always wearing Lannister gold and crimson, never the white.

My question, is at the start of AGoT, before he's named as the Lord Commander by Joffey, is Jamie at that point a member of the Kingsguard or not? One would think that Robert would have kicked him out after he murdered Aerys, but I could have sworn I saw several other mentions in that book (none I can quote at the moment) about how Jamie was indeed still considered a member of the Kingsguard.

Jamie was pardoned for his treason by Robert. In ASOS it offends Jamie that he had to be pardoned for such a great deed (I can't find the quote, sorry). Barristan the Bold is also offended to serve in the Kingsguard beside him, as he tells Dany. One cannot be named Lord Commander of the Kingsguard who is not already serving in the Kingsguard (at least all the tales of the LCs are that they were promoted from within). Jamie is in the Kingsguard for the entirety of the books, he received his white cloak at Harrenhall when he was 15, and can choose what to wear when not on duty guarding the King, from what I gather. So it's not so odd that he wears Lannister colors at Winterfell. Remember in AFFC we are privy to his thoughts about what to wear to treat with the Blackfish, and he decides against wearing Lannister crimson or the white.

I agree with the previous poster, being Warden is has nothing to do with lands, though the fact that he would *inherit* the title of Warden of the East is interesting in terms of giving up inheritances, and the titles part too. How can you protect the West if you're supposed to be protecting the King? Perhaps it's never been a problem in the past. Though really I don't see it as necessarily inconsistent with the duties of the Kingsguard; both involve protecting the King & his kingdom.

[Mara Jade]

I got a "small question" ... can you tell me all "special" weapons like Ice (leading to Widowmaker and Oathkeeper) and Dawn with their original owner and their current whereabouts?

This page links to many of the valyrian steel swords, and has some other weapons. It doesn't list Dawn there, though on Dawn's page there is no information about any current whereabouts. The last we'd heard of it was Ned returning it to Starfall, so perhaps it's still there. However on Brightroar's page it specifies that its current whereabouts are unknown. And by "Widowmaker" I think you mean Widow's Wail; the former is a nuclear submarine.

[Mara Jade]

Is there a World Map for ASoIaF?

I've seen some websites where people have drawn their own conjectures but I see nothing thats canon.

There is this map pasting together all the canon maps. It's the closest thing that exists I think.

[Jon Targaryen]

Dawn is at Starfall.

[Mara Jade]

Why is Lyn Corbray considered a pedophile?

[Jaime L]

Why is Lyn Corbray considered a pedophile?

Let me handle this one because I make fun of Lyn Corbray more than all other boarders combined.

*Clears throat*

Because Lyn Corbray likes boys.

...

No, I kid.

During the chapter in AFFC where Littlefinger pretends to rage against the Lords Declarant for Lyn Corbray's uncouth actions (even though Littlefinger paid him to do just that), in response to Alayne's question of how Littlefinger will reward Lyn Corbray for his outburst he responds: "With gold and boys and promises of course. All he likes is gold and boys and killing." Which confirms one of Catelyn's thoughts earlier when she was visiting the Vale and noted Lyn Corbray as "the most dangerous man in the Vale*" but also the rumors to the effect of the man having a temper and a tendency to keep company with boys.

*Considering the three knights named the most dangerous of anything are: Mandon Moore, Darkstar and Lyn Corbray hasn't it become a gag gift by now? Like Elgin Baylor being described as a "veteran of the Lottery process" or Tom Cruise being described as "the tallest man in Hollywood".

[Drowned Princess]

I can't consider Mandy Moore the most dangerous of anything, regardless of what Jaime Lannister thinks.

He's clearly sweet like candy. :mellow:

[Drowned Princess]

Also while i'm here: is Sandor (deadness aside) now - in name alone - in charge of Crazy Clegane Manor? (this is almost certainly covered somewhere else but I can't find it).

Cos at the moment it seems it's either mibbe-dead-but-most-likely-reborn Sandor or definitely-dead-but-most-likely-zombified UnGreg, and regardless of whatever madness might come, I can't see anyone letting a zombie be a Lord.

And if Greg is zombied, does he still have a zombie head? What the hell then is Balon Swann taking to Dorne in a box? Some other giant-and-conveniently-lying-around skull?

Edit: found the Qyburn thread, ignore the head question.

[Datepalm]

Why is Lyn Corbray considered a pedophile?

Jaime Greekakodoukou laid it out (I really think its just those two mentions) but it should be added its not at all clear if by boys we're talking about human trafficked 6 year olds or totally consenting 17 year olds. I actually tend to lean towards the latter becuase "interested in the compony of" does not suggest "likes to have locked in the basement" and I would expect more outrage from Catelyn at least when thinking of it, thats not the way the books have handled peadophilia elsewhere (see very creepy Aeron-Euron), but thats all very vauge impressions and it could well be straight up pedophilia. Hopefully (er...) we'll find out.

[Alexia]

Jaime Greekakodoukou laid it out (I really think its just those two mentions) but it should be added its not at all clear if by boys we're talking about human trafficked 6 year olds or totally consenting 17 year olds.

Since 17 year olds are considered men in that world, my personal opinion is that "boys" refers to squire-age, most likely. So I'm thinking maybe between the ages of 12-15.

[Mara Jade]

Thanks JP! I'd forgotten that part.

Jaime Greekakodoukou laid it out (I really think its just those two mentions) but it should be added its not at all clear if by boys we're talking about human trafficked 6 year olds or totally consenting 17 year olds. I actually tend to lean towards the latter becuase "interested in the compony of" does not suggest "likes to have locked in the basement" and I would expect more outrage from Catelyn at least when thinking of it, thats not the way the books have handled peadophilia elsewhere (see very creepy Aeron-Euron), but thats all very vauge impressions and it could well be straight up pedophilia. Hopefully (er...) we'll find out.

Wait, when has this society ever cared about consent? Is there a court for grievances? And would they set 17 as the age of consent? I'd think they'd set it closer to 10-13.

Since Sansa is considered a "woman" the moment she flowers at 13, then "boys" mean they're pre-puberty. I don't think this society believes in post-pubescent girls or boys, despite the one character or another who protests when conventient to them that "he's only a boy" or "she's just a girl."

Also, isn't the rub of Catelyn that she has the same frustrations as Cersei about being a woman in this society but instead always did her duty? It sure replaced all her emotions with bitterness & anger that she gets to embrace as Stoneheart. She's used to looking away. Anyway, when she's in the Vale things are so disturbing she accepts that she is not in control of the situation, her sister is. Much irks her, but come on, she's there to do her duty and avenge her son. Ugh, Catelyn.

I bet the boys are hid in some other capacity as servants or honored guests. Basement chaining is probably last resort.

[Mara Jade]

Also while i'm here: is Sandor (deadness aside) now - in name alone - in charge of Crazy Clegane Manor? (this is almost certainly covered somewhere else but I can't find it).

Cos at the moment it seems it's either mibbe-dead-but-most-likely-reborn Sandor or definitely-dead-but-most-likely-zombified UnGreg, and regardless of whatever madness might come, I can't see anyone letting a zombie be a Lord.

LOL zombie lord! To the realm they're both dead, so I bet their lands revert to the Lannisters or any other relatives that may be living. But I may have missed something.

Hmm deadness aside? Then yea, I guess he'd become the head of his house.

[Alexia]

Since Sansa is considered a "woman" the moment she flowers at 13,

She's really not, though. Tyrion calls her a child and when Viserys arranged Dany's marriage, he made his contempt that Drogo would take such a young girl loud and clear. The thing to keep in mind is that just because these things happen without sanction, doesn't mean they are socially acceptable (especially when they are being done by Lannisters). Here's an SSM on it...

Age of Sexual Relations in Westeros

There's only so many children you can chain in a basement or otherwise bother before you go too far - the Marquis de Sade being an excellent case in point.

[StrongBelwas]

I was re-reading Clash of Kings today and stumbled into a question I'd forgotten.

Does anyone know what exactly happened to Patchface? Stannis' fool? In the book we learn that Maester Cressen had recieved word 30 years in the past that Patchface had been found in Volantis and was a wonderous jester who could sing in 4 languages. Then the ship that carried him back sank in Shipbreaker Bay and all hands died. Except Patchface who washed up 3 days later and should have been dead but wasn't, though his mind was forever damaged.

So how did he survive exactly? Did he really end up in some sort of underwater place the likes of which he sings about? "Underwater it snows up. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh" Or is he just crazy? There was mention made that when they found him his flesh was corpse cold but then he suddenly revived. Is the patchface tragedy a part of a larger narrative perhaps?

[Datepalm]

Wait, when has this society ever cared about consent? Is there a court for grievances? And would they set 17 as the age of consent? I'd think they'd set it closer to 10-13.

It matters to the readers. Would we consider Tyrion the same way if he'd slept with Sansa, though it was totally legal? (and not to get into the whole deabte, but shes terrified, was coorced into the marriage, is regualrly beaten, and her life is threatened on a daily basis, so i'd say by modern standards that would be rape.) It does matter to me , especially if he becomes a more prominent character, whether Lyn Crobray is just a gay guy with a thing for younger men (even granted that most westerosi would probably consider 14 or so a perfectly adequate age of consent) or someone who mollests children.

[Mad Monkey]

LOL zombie lord! To the realm they're both dead, so I bet their lands revert to the Lannisters or any other relatives that may be living.

I agree; I think that in cases like this, the lands would be escheated to the lord for redistribution. It could be how Lannister disposed of the land he took from the Reynes and the Tarbecks after they were extinguished.

[dewell]

Small question:

Which characters proved to be very good in archery or take the bow as their primary weapon?