A Thread for Small Questions III

[Lannister Lion]

Currently re-reading the series. In SoS:B&G, Thoros cant "read" the fire on High Heart Hill and basically says that the R'hllor does not have any power there because its a place of old gods. At the end of the book, Mel is lighting fires at Castle Black and also the eagle bursts into flames. Surely R'hllor's power will also not work beyond the wall because, again, its a place of old gods?

[Datepalm]

Currently re-reading the series. In SoS:B&G, Thoros cant "read" the fire on High Heart Hill and basically says that the R'hllor does not have any power there because its a place of old gods. At the end of the book, Mel is lighting fires at Castle Black and also the eagle bursts into flames. Surely R'hllor's power will also not work beyond the wall because, again, its a place of old gods?

High Hill seems to have been a weirwood grove - the closest thing the Old Gods appear to have to a temple. If anything, the powers active beyond the wall seem to be the Others. (though Crasters sacrifice of children to the Weirwood to turn into Others seems to suggest some connection.)

[Daena the Defiant]

i wonder what kind of exercises ladies do, they have to do something to stay fit and slim with all those dish after dish after dish during feasts :P

Well, they can go hunting and hawking. Cersei, for example, owns hunting leathers (and is wearing them when she has her final tete-a-tete with Ned), and Lady Rohanne Webber from the Dunk and Egg stories is wearing them as well.

We also have a reference to Margaery and Sansa going hawking one afternoon with Marge's entourage of ladies. I assume that they dressed for the occasion. In fact, I believe that Sansa is wearing her riding leathers when she realizes that her bust has grown because she's busting over the top.

We also have the most likely atypical Targaryen women like Princess Daena, who hunted and liked to ride the rings. Lyanna too.

What I find amusing is that evidently some of the ladies have their own armor. Lady Rohanne again, and we have reference to Danelle Lothston wearing black plate mail.

edit: her bust has grown, not her bust has brown....

[Agyraspid]

I keep reading about Renly and Loras being lovers. I didn't catch it the first time I read the books, so I was looking out for this as I re-read AGoT and now ACoK. But I'm already at right before Renly and Stannis' big battle (don't know what the board's spoiler policy is, but you know what I'm talking about), and I still don't see it. I mean, we don't really see much of either Renly or Loras up-close before this point in the books, so... what gives?

Second question: When Jon was inducted into the stewards, Sam mentioned that this may be because the Old Bear is grooming him for command. But why? Apart from his parentage and Ghost, at that point Jon himself hadn't actually done anything to merit such confidence - in fact he was acting like a brat when he found out. (We understand his reasons because we know what he's thinking and going through, but the Old Bear doesn't.)

[Datepalm]

I keep reading about Renly and Loras being lovers. I didn't catch it the first time I read the books, so I was looking out for this as I re-read AGoT and now ACoK. But I'm already at right before Renly and Stannis' big battle (don't know what the board's spoiler policy is, but you know what I'm talking about), and I still don't see it. I mean, we don't really see much of either Renly or Loras up-close before this point in the books, so... what gives?

Pretty thoroughly covered here.

Second question: When Jon was inducted into the stewards, Sam mentioned that this may be because the Old Bear is grooming him for command. But why? Apart from his parentage and Ghost, at that point Jon himself hadn't actually done anything to merit such confidence - in fact he was acting like a brat when he found out. (We understand his reasons because we know what he's thinking and going through, but the Old Bear doesn't.)

it could just be dirty realpolitik - no better way then keeping on the right side of the most supportive, powerful major lord than staying close to his son. In other words, its percisely about his parentage. OTOH, probably Mormont wasn't expecting to die later that year and figured that he had a decade or so to actually groom Jon, who could later, eventually, maybe rise high in the watch, and if it wasn't working out to dump him. Its not like taking him on as steward was a written contract to become LC. Hes well educated and 'of the right blood' - why not give him a bit of personal attention?

Also, Jon kinda has plot immunity coupons.

[nothatso]

Second question: When Jon was inducted into the stewards, Sam mentioned that this may be because the Old Bear is grooming him for command. But why? Apart from his parentage and Ghost, at that point Jon himself hadn't actually done anything to merit such confidence - in fact he was acting like a brat when he found out. (We understand his reasons because we know what he's thinking and going through, but the Old Bear doesn't.)

I had always just assumed that Mormont observed Jon training the other recruits after Donal Noye give him a few words of wisdom and perhaps even saw the event where Jon saved Sam from a beating.

[Guest Other-in-Law]

I had always just assumed that Mormont observed Jon training the other recruits after Donal Noye give him a few words of wisdom and perhaps even saw the event where Jon saved Sam from a beating.

Also Maester Aemon relayed Jon's arguments about not wasting Sam to Mormont. In fact, Aemon basically admits that he counseled Mormont about Jon, as he retorts "No. We took you for a man of the Night's Watch...but perhaps we were wrong in that." after Jon whines about being being taken for a servant.

[StrongBelwas]

Bella the whore at the Peach. Arya and Gendry meet her when they stay there with the BWB.

Oh yea, I forgot about bella. I recall thinking it quite wicked that she should try to proposition Gendry, never knowing they were half-siblings.

[StrongBelwas]

Currently re-reading the series. In SoS:B&G, Thoros cant "read" the fire on High Heart Hill and basically says that the R'hllor does not have any power there because its a place of old gods. At the end of the book, Mel is lighting fires at Castle Black and also the eagle bursts into flames. Surely R'hllor's power will also not work beyond the wall because, again, its a place of old gods?

Don't confuse land north of the wall with land elsewhere...it's not a "place" of the old gods, its just land, nothing more. The High Heart Hill had a wierwood grove, that was the source of the disruption. I'm a believer that the groves represent nodes of gaia power unused since the days of the first men when the children taught humans their gaia magics. Time has passed and the Gaia knowledge of the children has faded from the world of humanity (with the possible exception of House Reed), but the groves remain power nodes nonetheless.

Mel can use her powers north of the wall, just as the others can use theirs. The question is if Mel could approach a grove and still find her power. Another question would be to ask, what happens to an other if it is near a grove?

[Guest Other-in-Law]

Mel can use her powers north of the wall, just as the others can use theirs. The question is if Mel could approach a grove and still find her power. Another question would be to ask, what happens to an other if it is near a grove?

Neither were actual groves, but Mel caused the godswood at Storm's End burnt, including it's ancient weirwood heart tree. And mere wights were getting ready to do a number on Sam and Gilly after killing their horse, within spitting distance of a weirwood. They were thwarted bt Coldhands' ravens, but the wights were able to function just fine around the weirwood until he intervened. I don't think weirwoods put out some force field that negates other types of magic, though the High Heart case is interesting. Maybe only scrying is affected in their presence?

[delete this account pls]

Also on Jon being groomed for command, I think it would be naive to think his birth doesn't have a lot to do with it. Look at the various Night's Watch officers - the vast majority are nobleborn. Jon, and anyone else who is nobleborn, have many advantages over the other recruits - arms training, literacy, a basic education, limited experience in warcraft, command, administration, etc.

Furthermore, Jon is going to be related to the Lord of the North, a relationship which can only be beneficial to a resource-starved organisation like the Night's Watch. They might be officially neutral, but politics obviously do have some impact on the Wall.

[Agyraspid]

Thanks for the replies guys, that answers my questions.

Now back to the book.. :read:

[Lannister Lion]

Thanks for the replies.

I have yet another question or three (hopefully they come under the heading of small questions!)- am currently re-reading AFFC and I remember scratching my head about the Golden Company, and the news that Myr is on the point of war with Lys and Tyrosh the first time round, and I must admit its no clearer to me now. So just a few questions:

1. Golden Company are a sellsword company - I'm still unclear why Arianne thinks Quentyn is connected with them. Can someone tell me?

2. Why has the Golden Company broken its contract with Myr?

3. Why are "on the point of war" with each other?

[Ran]

1) The Golden Company broke its contract, and her brother went east with a chest full of gold, so she thinks these two things are connected.

2) They're going east, after Dany. Possibly to kill her and take her dragons, possibly to support her, no one really knows.

3) The Free Cities are often at odds with one another. There's a region known as the Disputed Lands, for example, which is often a source of contention.

[StrongBelwas]

Thanks for the replies.

I have yet another question or three (hopefully they come under the heading of small questions!)- am currently re-reading AFFC and I remember scratching my head about the Golden Company, and the news that Myr is on the point of war with Lys and Tyrosh the first time round, and I must admit its no clearer to me now. So just a few questions:

1. Golden Company are a sellsword company - I'm still unclear why Arianne thinks Quentyn is connected with them. Can someone tell me?

2. Why has the Golden Company broken its contract with Myr?

3. Why are "on the point of war" with each other?

To answer these questions I believe the first thing that requires understanding is the relationship twixt Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons: that they are occuring side-by-side. Martin always said that his inital plan was a 4th book called aFfC but that the volume of info in the novel had grown so huge he needed to split it, hence aDwD was created.

Everything we learn about the Golden Company in aFfC comes via intelligence reports made to Cersi and Arianne (which Cersi foolishly ignores). If we were to have aDwD onhand I believe we'd know more about what was going on, via the Tyrion and Dany chapters. Alas, we do not have this book, but I can hazard a guess as to the plot arc.

Tyrion and Varys arrive in Pentos at the outset of the novel (around the time Tywin Lannister is lying in state). Via Tyrion chapters we see how the duo links up with Illeryo Mopatis and learn Varys's secret goal which he has been working towards for many years: To reseat a Targaryen on the iron throne. Varys and Illeryo are quite interested in Tyrion because he has served as a kings hand and possesses a devious mind along with the eminity of Cersi which ensures Tyrions loyality to them (since Tyrion has no place else to go) When word of dany's invasion of slavers bay reaches Pentos the trio begin working to further expand her future army and they need the Golden Company to do it. Tyrion spearheads negiotations with the Company to have them break their contract and saddle themselves aside the greatest force in the world: Dany and her dragons. We have been told by Martin that new maps of the free cities will be provided in aDwD. This further cements my belief that Tyrion is in Pentos and that Dany will soon depart from Meereen. Already from the bonus chapter at the end of aFfC we get a glimpse of the hazards Dany is experienceing trying to rule Meereen, with the underground movement "Sons of the Harpy" fighting a resistance war against her. Given that she has three of Illeryo's ships and the wealth of slavers bay in their holds, my guess is that she will be traveling west to the free cities when she determines that nothing can be gained by ruling Meereen long term. Eventually she will meet up with Tyrion, Illerio and Varys where she will take them into her service with Tyrion destined to serve as her hand one day. (though I believe she will distrust him at first, supported by the advice of Selmy.)

That dances a bit around your questions I know, but the context is important to paint the grander picture. You ask about Arianne's vexing feelings towards her brother. Recall that she saw a parchment once that her father created wherin he promised the realm of Dorne to Quentyn. Arianne was hurt deeply because the Dornish believe in equality of the sexes and that she should have the lordship next as Doran's heir, not Quentyn. When she learned Quentyn was overseas and that the Golden Company had broken it's contract, she assumed (incorrectly) that he was hiring the golden company to aid his efforts to usurp her. But she is wrong. The paper she saw was tied to a multi-year plot Doran had nursed as he planed to marry her to Visceris Targaryen making her QUEEN, far better than just having Dorne. Then Quentyn would succeed his father as the Prince of Dorne. This all went arwy when Drogo killed Visceris with the pot of gold. Doran changed his plans when he learned that Dany had invaded slavers bay. I believe Doran Martell has been linked tightly with Varys for over a decade and that Quentyn was sent to Pentos to help co-ordinate Dorne's support of Dany's coming invasion. There is a good chance Tyrion will meet him.

Your final question is as to why Lys and Myr are on the point of war. The answer is because they have a long running feud similar to what House Martell has with House Tyrell. The Lys/Myr conflict is a seperate matter and I don't think it will play much of a role in the politics scheming around Dany's return other than that the Golden Company was with one side in that conflict and they left it to follow Dany's trail expecting that great wealth will result in being hired by the mother of dragons.

Does that answer your Q's?

[Caddy Jellyby]

i wonder what kind of exercises ladies do, they have to do something to stay fit and slim with all those dish after dish after dish during feasts

Dancing is another good way for ladies to exercise.

[SFDanny]

Strong Belwas, it's a very informative post, perhaps too informative for some of us as some of it comes straight from spoiler chapters. Could you use the the spoiler tags? Thanks

[PlayOnPlaya]

Strong Belwas, it's a very informative post, perhaps too informative for some of us as some of it comes straight from spoiler chapters. Could you use the the spoiler tags? Thanks

Are "The spoiler chapters" the chapters george r. r. martin put up on his website or some chapters he has not put up on his website somehow leaked onto the internet?

[Mad Monkey]

Are "The spoiler chapters" the chapters george r. r. martin put up on his website or some chapters he has not put up on his website somehow leaked onto the internet?

He has (had?) rotating spoiler chapters on his website, and there were a couple that people who attended book-signings wrote down after listening to him.

[Maegor Targaryen]

I have a question, Has "How Valyrian Steel is made?" been discussed?

if show can you send me a link to the thread