A Thread for Small Questions III

[Liliedhe]

Not a little question, more like a little remark that I don't feel warrants opening a thread.

Did it ever occur to anybody how incredibly ironic Sansa's nickname of "little bird" is? Aside from her, the phrase is used to describe informers - especially Varys' but also others. And Sansa played "little bird" to Cersei, when she informed on her father's plans... Seems like the Hound is prescient^^.

[Ealdorman Halasahr]

I have a question, Has "How Valyrian Steel is made?" been discussed?

if show can you send me a link to the thread

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Haven't got any thread-suggestions for you. Sorry about that.

I do, however, have a really short and vague answer to your question:

"It is held that the ironsmiths worked with spells as well as hammer" (I: 20)

Check this: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Concordance/Section/1.1./

[Guest Other-in-Law]

I have a question, Has "How Valyrian Steel is made?" been discussed?

if show can you send me a link to the thread

I don't recall a thread exclusively about Valyrian steel, but it seems to involve repeated folding an refolding in the forging process to make the ripple pattern, like Damascus steel. Also, there's spells involved. Dany once promised someone a VS sword that would be 'dragon-forged', if iirc, but she really may know very little about it.

[Lannister Lion]

Not a little question, more like a little remark that I don't feel warrants opening a thread.

Did it ever occur to anybody how incredibly ironic Sansa's nickname of "little bird" is? Aside from her, the phrase is used to describe informers - especially Varys' but also others. And Sansa played "little bird" to Cersei, when she informed on her father's plans... Seems like the Hound is prescient^^.

Sansa also calls Robert "Sweet Robin" - also a little bird.

[StrongBelwas]

Strong Belwas, it's a very informative post, perhaps too informative for some of us as some of it comes straight from spoiler chapters. Could you use the the spoiler tags? Thanks

Well I suppose I could in the future but I'll say that the majority of my post is my SPECULATION of aDwD and I refer 100% to information provided in either the 1st 4 books or the Dany chapter available at the end of aFfC. I have not read any spoiler chapters online as I prefer to read aDwD as a whole when the time comes, with the excepion of the previously mentioned Dany chapter already available in aFfC.

[StrongBelwas]

I have a question, Has "How Valyrian Steel is made?" been discussed?

if show can you send me a link to the thread

Very little information has been made available on this subject but what I do know is that Valyrian Steel is a combination of Standard steel with an unknown substance and it is then spellforged (whatever that means). What I do not understand is how the "spellforging" process works because there is a little logic problem. Tobho Mott took Ice and reforged it into Oathkeeper and it's sister blade. So clearly once Valyrian steel is made it can be reworked into new shapes and sizes. To make 2 blades from one, master Mott would have had to melt down the orginal and recast 2 new blades, which confuses me because he would have had only standard steelworking technology. Granted: Mott is a master craftsman, but he has no access to the "spellforging" process.

So my conclusion is that the "spellforging" process must only occur when the inital transformation process occurs. Afterwards you can melt down the steel and rework it via standard means. I figure that this is what must happen at the Citidel when the occasional Maester pursues sorcery as a study subject and forges a Valyrian steel link.

Finally I read somewhere (and i cannot recall where) a speculation that the "Unknown substance" mixed with standard steel prior to spellforging was one of the things slaves mined for under Valyara. The kindly man told Arya the story of the 1st faceless man in these mines. He said they were searching for "Silver, yellow gold, and red gold". I understand what silver and yellow gold are...but red gold? I don't understand that. The only metal that comes to mind is copper, but they always call copper "copper" in the books...as in "I just passed the maester exams in the subject of history and forged my copper link". Now add to that Brienne's thoughts of the beauty of the red veins in Oathkeeper.

[Maegor Targaryen]

I was wondering because i have a theory on it... not a very good one tho,

I think it might be crafted witth Steel and Obsidian(dragonglass) because the Valyrian Steel blades are as dark as smoke(and dragonglass is dark) and Jon refers to them as Dragonsteel blades in aFfC, and dragons make dragonglass don't they?

[lacuna]

I have a question, Has "How Valyrian Steel is made?" been discussed?

if show can you send me a link to the thread

A wild stab in the dark, based on nothing whatsoever.

All the way back in AGOT, Tyrion reads a book he borrowed from Winterfell about the "properties of dragonbone". It says that "Dragonbone is black because of its high iron content". Possibly, Valyrian steel is made from iron taken from dragonbone, and then further strengthened with spells.

And/or, the iron is heated using dragonfire, giving it just the right amount of carbon/iron, as well as literally breathing magic into the steel.

So it's either that, or you feed pig iron to a Faceless Man, and next day, he shits a Valyrian Steel blade...

[Maegor Targaryen]

I just remembered, at the Valyrian Freehold the slaves were ordered to dig... I'm guessing they were digging for old dragon bones or obsidian or maybe just gold...

[Guest Other-in-Law]

Tobho Mott took Ice and reforged it into Oathkeeper and it's sister blade. So clearly once Valyrian steel is made it can be reworked into new shapes and sizes. To make 2 blades from one, master Mott would have had to melt down the orginal and recast 2 new blades, which confuses me because he would have had only standard steelworking technology.

Simply untrue. I wouldn't need to melt down an iron bar to turn it into two iron bars, all I need is a hacksaw. And most blades aren't molten castings, anyway. Cast=/=forged.

Granted: Mott is a master craftsman, but he has no access to the "spellforging" process.

Yes he does.

"Tobho Mott had learned to work Valyrian steel at the forges of Qohor as a boy. Only a man who knew the spells could take old weapons and forge them anew."

"Tyrion wondered where the metal for this one had come from. A few master armorers could rework old Valyrian steel, but the secrets of it's making had been lost when the Doom came to old Valyria."

"But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see."

[the average Other]

He said they were searching for "Silver, yellow gold, and red gold". I understand what silver and yellow gold are...but red gold? I don't understand that. The only metal that comes to mind is copper, but they always call copper "copper" in the books...as in "I just passed the maester exams in the subject of history and forged my copper link".

Well, my mum has a ring that's made of three bands, one of yellow gold, one of red gold, and one of white gold. Red gold is just gold that's a bit more reddish than ordinary yellow gold. (Also, "gold" doesn't look like a word anymore.)

My favourite theory is that the story of Azor Ahai, Nissa Nissa and the forging of Lightbringer is just a recipe for making Valyrian steel. Take one ordinary steel sword and one person's life force, combine, and hey, presto! You've got a VS blade, very good for killing creepy white walkers, ice spiders and traitors. All Valyrian magic was fire or blood magic, right?

[ButIwantedtobeHodor]

HI,

why would Arya yell '(for) Winterfell' as a battle cry?

She has seen battle before?

Book 2, when HotPie also learn to yell HotPie.

[StrongBelwas]

Yes he does.

"Tobho Mott had learned to work Valyrian steel at the forges of Qohor as a boy. Only a man who knew the spells could take old weapons and forge them anew."

"Tyrion wondered where the metal for this one had come from. A few master armorers could rework old Valyrian steel, but the secrets of it's making had been lost when the Doom came to old Valyria."

"But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see."

hmmm.

I suppose I forgot about those lines in the previous books. So I take from this that it is possible to rework existing V-Steel into new shapes but impossible to cast new steel.

Additionally I see a thing I had forgotten, that the red veins in Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail were placed by Mott at the request of Lord Tywin, not from the presence of any red substance orginal to the steel. Whatever the "unknown substance" is, it isn't red gold. Until GRRM writes more on the subject it'll be a mystery.

[WinterBreeze]

Did Cersei remember to give Winterfell to anyone? I can't seem to recall.

[Maegor Targaryen]

Did Cersei remember to give Winterfell to anyone? I can't seem to recall.

Isn't Winterfell destoryed?

[Esstarrioll]

'Winterfell and all its lands and incomes' would be a region, the same way Highgarden or the Riverrun is. It doesn't cease to be because the city or castle is gone- you just need to rebuild it. And no, Cersei didn't bother, since an invading army destroyed the primary city and occupied the area.

[winterqueen]

Does anyone know what has happened to the Targaryen heirlooms? Namely, the crowns and dragon eggs of Aegon I and the other dragon kings.

I know the sword Blackfyre was taken to the Free Cities with Bitterstell and the sword Dark Sister was last in the hands of Bloodraven. I am mainly interested in the crowns and the remaining dragon eggs. I wonder if they are hidden somewhere in the Red Keep or on Dragonstone? Viserion the cream dragon seems to be from Princess Elaena's egg. Was there more dragon eggs (besides what is now Rhaegal and Drogon)? I wonder if Varys could could offer any insight on these questions? Crowns and dragon eggs, where could they be?

[Miriel]

Does anyone know what has happened to the Targaryen heirlooms? Namely, the crowns and dragon eggs of Aegon I and the other dragon kings.

I know the sword Blackfyre was taken to the Free Cities with Bitterstell and the sword Dark Sister was last in the hands of Bloodraven. I am mainly interested in the crowns and the remaining dragon eggs. I wonder if they are hidden somewhere in the Red Keep or on Dragonstone? Viserion the cream dragon seems to be from Princess Elaena's egg. Was there more dragon eggs (besides what is now Rhaegal and Drogon)? I wonder if Varys could could offer any insight on these questions? Crowns and dragon eggs, where could they be?

Doesn't Dany refuse to sell her crown to the slavers b/c she remembers people mocking Viserys when he sold her mother's crown? If the crown she remembers as being her mother's was the same crown you are asking about, then it is somewhere in the Free Cities, probably broken up and sold off by now.

[winterqueen]

Doesn't Dany refuse to sell her crown to the slavers b/c she remembers people mocking Viserys when he sold her mother's crown? If the crown she remembers as being her mother's was the same crown you are asking about, then it is somewhere in the Free Cities, probably broken up and sold off by now.

I was thinking about the older crowns, the ones that sat the heads of Aegon I and the kings that followed him. If you look at the art of the Russian artist (I think his name is Amok but am not sure) the historic Targaryen kings are all wearing crowns. For expample, Aegon I had a crown of square cut rubies and Valyian steel. I want to know where that crown is. Queen Raella's crown must have been just a consort crown. I think Cersei had her own consort crown as well.

[StrongBelwas]

Did Cersei remember to give Winterfell to anyone? I can't seem to recall.

Winterfell was destroyed and all the lands and incomes of the north were given to House Bolton as a reward for Roose bolton's betrayal at the Red Wedding.

*Edit: It was pointed out to me that Tommen has not offically granded Bolton the title Warden of the North as yet, but he is in Cersei's favor and as long as he vexes Stannis she will remain pleased. The implication is that Bolton will be granted Wardenship eventually. (As long as Cersei remains in power, with her troubles at the end of aFfC things may have changed for Bolton)