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Calibandar

White-Luck Warrior

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This is the synopsis:

As Anasurimbor Kellhus and his Great Ordeal march ever farther into the perilous wastes of the Ancient North, Esmenet finds herself at war with not only the Gods, but her own family as well. Achamian, meanwhile, leads his own ragtag expedition to the legendary ruins of Sauglish, and to a truth he can scarce survive, let alone comprehend. Into this tumult walks the White-Luck Warrior, assassin and messiah both, executing a mission as old as the World's making ...

Coupling this to our reading of The Judging Eye and the thoughts we had at the time, what do you expect to happen in the White Luck Warrior? This concerns both the scope of the novel, how far do you expect Kellhus to get for instance on his way to Golgotterath, and mostly content, what do you think will happen?

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This is the synopsis:

Coupling this to our reading of The Judging Eye and the thoughts we had at the time, what do you expect to happen in the White Luck Warrior? This concerns both the scope of the novel, how far do you expect Kellhus to get for instance on his way to Golgotterath, and mostly content, what do you think will happen?

Hard to say, at this point.

Akka and the crew will travel much farther than in book one, where they made little real headway. I expect at least one encounter with sranc. I imagine that storyline will peak at Sauglish, with Akka ready to venture to Ishual for volume 3. Naturally there will probably be some twist along the way.

There will probably be a battle or two as the Great Ordeal heads north. The journey thus far has been too "easy". Bakker is setting Sorweel up for something besides the standard fantasy emo-venting; given that he is now 'blessed', I wouldn't be surprised if Sorweel ends up attempting to assassinate Kellhus at some point (just speculation, mind you).

Kelmomas will kill more people. Essie will fret and probably discover the truth concerning her son, but refuse to believe it at first or something along those lines. Possibly the White Luck Warrior will lead a revolt against Kellhus.

edit: although I'm looking forward to this book, moreso than any of the other 'big-name' titles, it almost feels as if TJE mapped out the course of the next two books. Knowing Bakker's style, I think the structure hinted at and, in some places, baldly revealed -- will be twisted, changed, according to unforeseen circumstance. Otherwise the plot-progression will seem a little too straightforward and academic, each party moving from A to B to C on the 'shortest path.'

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Besides expecting much the same as Kuenjato, I have no f'ing clue, really. Which makes me anticipate it all the more. :drool:

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Yeah, Akka's crew basically spent the entire first book in Cil Aujas. I think they'll get to Sauglish in the next book, but not without some major obstacles on the way.

I'm curious to see what's up with Cleric. Not just in general, as he is a mysterious character, but also immediately given what happened at the end of TJE. How did that change him, if at all?

I imagine that The Great Ordeal continues to slog northward. I don't really know where their next logical stop is along the way to the Arc, so that will be interesting. I would think that they'll eventually get there, but that we don't know exactly how easy it will be. Sorweel must have a significant part to play, though assuming that he is not the White Luck Warrior, I think it's difficult to predict what it will be. For the record, I still think that there's an outside chance that he is the WLW based on the chapter that ended with the old man saying "Blessed you." And because I don't know what the point of Sorweel's character would be otherwise.

But most people seem to think that the WLW is the unnamed man from the weird-ass ritual. I concede that may be more likely, but that chapter was strangely written and hard to interpret for me.

Kelmomas...there is no reason to think that he'll slow down or deviate from the path that he's on. Tweet tweet, you little fucker.

Something that I'm hoping for is more exposure to all of Kellhus and Esmenet's children. We got a lot of Kelmomas in the fist book and a touch of Kayutas, but not much beyond that. I'd like to see more of Little Moe, the girl who's a witch, and the one who is locked up insane.

ETA: Still curious to know for certain who the traveler was.

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I don't think the Traveler needs to be anyone in particular - just an emissary from Kellhus. A trusted one, of course, probably one of the Apparati.

I originally sort of thought that the WLW didn't have to be a specific person. Rather, a concept. It seems that the White Luck is slowly turning against Kellhuss and his Ordeal, what with his home life going to hell; i.e., Kelmomas killing off a Yatwerian at precisely the wrong time, plus his planting and nourishing seeds of discord in Esmie's mind against Maithanet. (What IS that voice in Kel's head, anyway?)

I thought, perhaps the WLW is Yatwer herself. But then what was the disgusting rite that went down with the young guy?

It seems odd to produce what would have to be a major powerful character at this stage of the proceedings, so I think Bakker has something else in mind. What it is is beyond me.

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I thought, perhaps the WLW is Yatwer herself. But then what was the disgusting rite that went down with the young guy?

Yeah, this scene was all kinds of messed up, but it was also hard to follow. I'm not sure exactly what happened, and I'm not sure exactly what we were supposed to take away from it.

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I think blurb to WLW makes clear WLW is indeed a single person, most likely this young guy.

As for what happens in the book, I suppose the Great Ordeal will continue to slog north and have a big battle, won at a great post (analog to Borodino ;) ). In the south we will most likely see a big confrontation between Esmenet and WLW, probably won by Esmenet, as Kellhus prophesied. Kelmomas will most likely play a big role in it, but what that role will be is anybody's guess. Achamian and his group will visit Sauglish ande find out the mystery of Dunyain, and then move to Ishual.

I also have a theory they will find Ishual razed to the ground by the Consult with seemingly no survivors, but it is just a crazy theory and I wouldn't put any money on it.

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i dont remember if we talked about this , but is it possible that the great ordeal is just making a lot of fuss to let achamian pass through unoticed and find something that will bring kellhus ends to fruition. that being the heron spear if kellhus wants to destroy the no god. the same time being another analogy to tolkien , but if kellhus aims for something different, it will reverse the whole thing.. we can speculate endlessly on what that will be , now that bakker proved that he doesnt hesitate to bring major plot points in at this stage . of course you cant really tell that cil aujas didnt make a lot of rukus.

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i predict that the rape aliens will develop a new breed of skins spies, a race of faux genitals that control the host body by means of joinder to the loins, and thus thereby infiltrate the new empire of the three seas in a manner that leaves them invulnerable to the emperor's face-reading abilities, but also nonetheless preserves their interrogation-by-hard-fucking abilities.

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But most people seem to think that the WLW is the unnamed man from the weird-ass ritual. I concede that may be more likely, but that chapter was strangely written and hard to interpret for me.

Its been a really long while since i read the book but didn't that guy in the ritual turn into an old man, i can't see a messiah assassin being a crusty old man. I think the WLW is either the priestess who stole the guys youth or Sorweel. More likely sorweel because the blurb says Assassin and he is the only close enough to Kellhus and the only one that can hide from him.

Though that depends entirely on whether or not the blurb was written by Bakker. For me its less Sorweel, or at least less emo, and more crazed spawn of Cnaiur.

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A large chunk of it will probably be of Empress Esmenet trying to quell rebellions lead by the White Luck Warrior and the Yatwerite Cult in the Three Seas. It might even be the main story of the book, just like how the trip through Cil-Aujas was the main story of TJE.

We'll probably see, as others have said, Achamian, Mimara, and possibly Lord Kosoter and Sarl make it to Sauglish, although since they're now on the open plains area leading north, they'll probably have fewer sections.

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Speculation mode on:

Akka & co. make their way into Sauglish despite having to fight/evade lots and lots of suspiciously well-organized Sranc on their way. Several less important Skin Eaters die. Akka, Mimara, and Cleric are among those that survive. It's really hard to say which shocking revelation Akka will find in Sauglish. Let's say he finds out the God of Eärwa is evil and the Nonmen are descendants of angels who rebelled against him, but it might well be something else.

The Great Ordeal makes its way into the north with only minor skirmishes and a relatively easy battle or two in which Sranc die in droves. Only after Kellhus's forces commit to their planned leap of faith, hordes of Sranc appear behind them, making retreat and resupply impossible. Sorweel vacillates about whether to kill Kellhus or not, decides to kill him, and then changes his mind at the last minute as the death of Kellhus would break the will of the army. Near the very end of the book and their endurance, after many soldiers had already died of cold and fatigue, the Great Ordeal finally reaches catches sight of Golgotterath. Depending on where the break between books goes, they may also storm Golgotterath in a gloriously awesome scene, only to find that the Consult had planned to cede their well-defended but strategically-insignificant former headquarters all along. (This sudden Consult competence is the work of Cnaiür who didn't die at the end of TTT, combined with overconfidence on the part of Kellhus, but that won't be revealed until next book.)

Kelmomas successfully drives a wedge of suspicion between Esmenet and Maithanet and kills Theliopa. Esmenet's worries about the internal stability of the empire and the Yatwerians making a nuisance of themselves are interrupted when after the Great Ordeal's leap of faith the Three Seas is attacked by a Consult army no one knew was there. The army, which had arrived through Cil-Aujas, massacres one city before the remaining forces of the empire get themselves in the gear.

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I'm re-readinng the chapter where Nannaferi performs her odd ritual on the man before her and he is explictly named there as the White Luck Warrior, so we can lay the question of who the title character is to rest. Sorweel's blessing will serve another purpose, he is obviously not the WLW.

As for the unnamed man before her, it seems as if he has been given divine power through the ritual. It's not that she makes him old, but rather stronger, more aged with strength.

I would expect him to confront Kellhus, especially since Kellhus is the great enemy of Psatma's faith and WLW is referred to in the synopsis as assassin and messiah both. However, the reference to a mission as old as the world's making has me clutching.

I'd also like to see more of Kayutas and Moenghus, and Serwa. Kelmomas of course, I'd like to see him grow in strength ( though it is interesting to remember that the Voice tells him that he is but the Branch, and his father the Root, in whom the Strength burns brightest) . Learn more about Incariol. Get a bit more views of the rulers of the Consult, the erratic Nonmen on their side as well. Cnaiur's story is done I think.

Whether or not we go to Ishual is of course entirely speculative at this point. I'm not quite sure the Dunyain will be made to feature and Bakker may decide to leave them and Ishual out.

As for Kellhus, I don't see signs of his divine powers abating ( au contraire, the 20 years since TTT seem to have made him even stronger, as expected), only his adversaries getting more powerful and more varied.

I see Nerdanel is still going with the idea of Kellhus as the No-God himself, or being the true avatar of the God of Earwa, who is himself evil. It's intriguing, but I have this feeling as if Bakker is playing Kellhus straight in this sense, not in the sense that good and evil is unamabiguous, but I do feel as though Bakker does see Kellhus as the "The hero" of this tale.

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I see Nerdanel is still going with the idea of Kellhus as the No-God himself, or being the true avatar of the God of Earwa, who is himself evil. It's intriguing, but I have this feeling as if Bakker is playing Kellhus straight in this sense, not in the sense that good and evil is unamabiguous, but I do feel as though Bakker does see Kellhus as the "The hero" of this tale.

My theory is that Kellhus is eventually going to try to replace the God. It's his only way to escape damnation.

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My theory is that Kellhus is eventually going to try to replace the God. It's his only way to escape damnation.

That's my thought too. And it's been discussed by Esme and Maithanet that the gods are warring against Kellhus. And how do you become a true self-moving soul unless you totally change the rules? i.e., throw the board up in the air and start anew? (That would fit in with the benjuka theme too.)

And while in the past I've questioned whether Kellhus has actually been to the Outside, I now think he probably has. I've reread the sections where he's teleporting across distances and it seems that when you use those two inutterals, you do enter the Outside. So he probably did come by his demon head accessories honestly. :D

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I finished the last book thinking Sorweel was the WLW so I'm others who yjink so are not alone. The guy named in the trippy sex scene may have been called the WLW but what if it's a sexually transmitted avatar? Now once-old priestess is WLW until she goes and fucks someone else. That sounds like it fits Bakker's MO although it may take some travelling for Sorweel to get his hands (or orifces) on it.

I'd definitely like to see Akka and co at least reach the Dunyain hideout and hopefully some big revelations on who they are (I still like the idea that the non-men or humans are from the same species but with a selective breeding program millinia ago and the Dunyain are a new incarnation).

I'd like some more on Maithanet as his outing in TJE was a let down considering the build up. I still like to think Maithanet JR had some long game planned and his son would be part of this. Maybe Maithanet spots what Kelmomas is up to and this divides the house with Esmenet taking the side of her "evil" son. I'd also like to see Kelmoma's twin speak in his head as I think his "soul" was captured at birth (the twin was killed for that reason) or some hint that Kelmo has some consult genetics in him (esme had her fill of black sperm).

Hopefully no Kellhus POV as i like the idea that we couldn't comprehend his thoughts anymore. I'd only accept a reveal on his thoughts at the end of the trilogy. An obvious end would be to have his horde at the gates of Golgoterath

And last but not least some tentacle rape,

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Honest answer: I don’t know what’s going to happen.

If Achamian reaches the library in Sauglish, I assume he’ll learn about the Dûnyain. I’m less sure of the significance of that knowledge, it doesn’t seem to change much. So for this visit to have any significance, Acka would also need to lean the location of Ishual. I can’t see that being much use to him, I rather suspect it’s very useful to Kellhus. Whether this conspiracy is true, or will play itself out with White-Luck, is unclear to me.

Metaphysically, assuming I’m right, we’ll continue to see the reactionary forces in the Tree Seas manifest themselves against the Anasûrimbor regime. This will be through the cult or Yatwer, spear-headed by the White-Luck warrior and lots of magical weirdness – the superconsciousness of Yatwer will level up during this conflict. Possibly other Kiünatti cults/gods will similarly use this opportunity to resist the unifying trends of Inrithism/Fanimry/Kellhusism after centuries of oppression. Ultimately, Maihtanet and Esmenet will win this confrontation by unpleasant means, at further emotional cost to Esmi. Random crazy Anasûrimborian children will add colour and variety to this confrontation, possibly killing Maitha.

Bakker will continue his homages in set pieces to Tolkien and McCarthy. Two full chapters will be devoted to Kelmemonas’s Birthday Party, with detailed descriptions of which gift he gives to which vassal. We will be scratching our heads endlessly over the significance of giving an old polished brass shield bearing the inscriptions of Fan’oukarji I, first Padirajah of Kian, to the second son of house Biaxi. Also, Lord Kosoter will be dancing naked in a saloon.

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