Who are the 10 best swordsmen in the series?

[Dreadwolf]

Th fact that Jaime (who always have thought of his 2 handed ego as of the best swordsman ever walked on that weaked ASOIAF world) said that - once their fight (with Blackfish) would have been worth of the gerat and inspiring song that Bards would have non stop sung from then on is enough to put Blackfish in the list or the very best swordsmen in the series.

[Errant Bard]

The young Blackfish, maybe. You seem to gloss over the word "once".

[Dreadwolf]

Yes the young Blackfish. In fact nowadays Blackfish still prefered not to risk with a single combat.

[Yakman]

Yes the young Blackfish. In fact nowadays Blackfish still prefered not to risk with a single combat.

no. it was only that it made no sense to commit to such a thing. if he were to win, the siege would not be lifted. if he were to lose, Riverrun would be surrendered.

There was no benefit to a duel with a Frey/Lannister champion.

[Radio Changes]

Even if you're right that Dayne died last, that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you've reached.

1) One or more of the other 5 may have been involved in killing Dayne, but didn't survive it. Dayne's outliving his brethren doesn't mean he also outlived the 5 others on Ned's side.

2) Dayne may have been wounded or disabled by this point.

3) In battle, things happen very quickly and are confusing. Dayne might have survived the other members of the KG for all of about 30 seconds. And despite the fancy chivalric setpiece Martin gives us for the beginning of the duel, I doubt very much that it would still look like that at the end. Howland may well have gotten lucky while Dayne wasn't looking.

I just want to interject and say there's a good chance Howland Reed had poisoned weapons due to a lot of the Ironborn's experiences with the Cranogmen

[Ran]

I don't think Howland would have been using poisoned weapons. Not when riding besides Ned Stark. Ned would never have permitted it, IMO, and to be honest, I don't think crannogmen would fight that way against a respected foe. Using poison against ironborn reavers who've invaded your home isn't quite the same thing as turning it against famed, honorable knights of the Kingsguard who're doing their duty...

[Errant Bard]

I don't know, it's still using it against enemies, possibly saving friends from dying, and you can't claim Ned was willing to be fair, considering he attacked three people with seven.

From my point of view, I see no difference between using poison against invading raiders and against a knight about to kill your last friend (and swordsman) alive on the field (a knight who also was party to kidnapping and helping to her grave a girl who saved your life, in passing.) I personally would even have a greater urge to use it right from the start on Dayne, because I don't value friends getting slaughtered while I have the means to save them, whereas against ironborns it's a pure offensive weapon

[Eddison Tollet]

I think Thoros belongs in the top 10. I think he regularly won melees [including the Hand's Tourney melee], was the first person over the wall in Pyke, and when he meets the Hound in ASOS, I believe he says something about defeating him three times.

[Ran]

Like I said, I don't think Howland Reed used poison, and I certainly see a clear distinction between the ironborn invaders and the Kingsguard at the tower of joy. Moreover, I don't think Howland would have carried a pot of poison to dip a spear into if things went so badly that, 7 against 3, only he and Ned were still alive. Nor do I think he really had the time. It might have been something he would have wanted to do ... but, no.

And like I said, Ned Stark sure the hell would not have been for it.

Howland used a net to tangle up Dayne, or maybe as some speculate he's a skinchanger and confused Dayne by getting into his head and trying to take over, or perhaps he just fought him directly, but I'm quite certain he never used poisons.

ETA: It should also be noted that the crannogmen's poison as described by Victarion is fairly slow acting -- takes hours to kill.

[Fireball07]

Thoros is an interesting one. He's obviously skilled and able to survive in battle, and often comes to fore in the madness of the melee, but in a straight 1 on 1 fight, would he beat people like the Hound, Jaime and Garlan Tyrell? I'm not so sure.

But yeah, I think he has to be given consideration.

[Blue Steel]

I think Garlan Tyrell is the best, even better than Jaime was with two hands. After him, I'd put Sandor and Jaime. I'd put Jon Snow, Bronn, Barristan and Loras on the next tier. Other good fighters who are close to the top would be Lyn Corbray, Jorah Mormont and Balon Swann. Halfhand was good but he's dead and I think Jon's already better than him by the end of ASOS. And with more dedication and hardwork, he might make it even higher.

[Hnim]

Though there is no doubt in my mind that Ser Garlan should be in the top ten, and he's certainly one of the best, the only battle he has to his credit is Blackwater, and though he performed spectacularly I'd say the more experienced ones who are still young should be able to out do him.

[Quanta]

On Brienne's and jaime's fight, wasn't Brienne also suffering from an arrow wound? And didn't Jaime get the first hit in so that Brienne has a second wound for most of the fight? I'm not saying that Brienne could beat Jaime at the top of his game but she is far from average.

[Fireball07]

Where is all the Jorah praise come from? Just because he's an important character doesnt mean he's a good fighter, what evidence is there to support that?

Balon Swann is obviously good but he's not a swordsman, Tyrion says he uses a morningstar.

[Managore]

Why is Bronn so high on many people's lists? I don't see what he's done to distinguish himself. He admitted to not being as good as Gregor, and yet appears higher than Gregor on some lists.

[Fireball07]

Why is Bronn so high on many people's lists? I don't see what he's done to distinguish himself. He admitted to not being as good as Gregor, and yet appears higher than Gregor on some lists.

Actually he never said that. In fact, he said he might be able to kill him. And Bronn never over-estimates himself.

[Peter the Gun]

Where is all the Jorah praise come from? Just because he's an important character doesnt mean he's a good fighter, what evidence is there to support that?

Balon Swann is obviously good but he's not a swordsman, Tyrion says he uses a morningstar.

I don't remember the details, but didn’t Jorah protect Dany from multiple Dothraky during the birthing fiasco? It was him vs many skilled fighters IIRC. Could be wrong, this is the only reason I can think of.

[Peter the Gun]

For this type of hypothetical 1vs1 best sowrdsman scenraio, I would have my money on Syrio. The speed, experience and intelligence would make him my favorite against the rest. I don't think he could beat everyone 1v1, I suspect some would have advantages that would make it a really close call, but if I had to pick 1 candidate to bet my money on, it would be him.

Some of the names that have been mentioned that I would not even consider in the top ten are Jon, Barristan, and Brienne. Barristan is out of his prime, and I doubt the other two are experienced enough to compete against the likes of The Hound or Gergor. Think about it, Jon vs Gregor? No chance.

[Ran]

Peter,

Jorah fights only one of the Dothraki bloodriders, Qotho. Jorah is tough and isn't easy prey for anyone, so to speak, but Qotho had him dead to rights -- he would have died several times over if he hadn't had his armor, and it was only the mischance of Qotho's arakh getting stuck in Jorah's thigh that led to Jorah's victory.

He's a capable, tough, experienced fighter. Not a great swordsman though, I expect.

[fragment]

I take issue with Jon being better than the halfhand. I just re-read the fight (CoK page 953) and Jon was losing before Ghost jumped in causing Qhorin to leave an opening. Additionally Jon was fighting with a Valarian steel blade (advantage Jon) and they had just completed a conversation where it seemed clear that Qhorin was going to let Jon beat him to create the case needed to convince the wildlings Jon was a deserter.

Page 954 cite: "he knew what they would ask of me"

So when I consider

1. Qhorin's pre-knowledge

2. Longclaw being of valarian steel

3. Ghosts involvement

I can't make a case that Jon is better. Now if he lives another 20 years as a Lord Comander with many rangings, he might well be worthy of the top 10 list.

Just to add to this: Jon towards the end of admitted that Qhorin had full force, 1 on 1, would easily have defeated Jon. Thus, Jon was led to practice in the yard every day so he could develop a better sword-fighting skill.