Prejudice against Geeks/Nerds

[Lord of Oop North]

Today, I accidentally put my skilsaw down on top of my copy of An Autumn War, which was promptly sliced in half. It feels like I've created some sort of nerd / anti-nerd paradox. Like I'm crossing the streams, or something.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

LooN,

You'll feel the "curse of St. Daniel" soon enough.

;)

[moirne]

I think being a geek/nerd is more acceptable now than it was, say, 10 years ago. I see clothing and accessories all the time with "I love nerds" and other such phrases. I almost see it as kind of cool now to be one.

[Datepalm]

Today, I accidentally put my skilsaw down on top of my copy of An Autumn War, which was promptly sliced in half. It feels like I've created some sort of nerd / anti-nerd paradox. Like I'm crossing the streams, or something.

You sliced a book in half!?!?

[Iskaral Pust]

I think the geeks have already inherited the earth. Any negativity now is just resentment.

But there are people who are really socially inept, even in the eyes of common or garden geeks. They invest massive amounts of focus on trivia as a sort of displacement for all the time that regular people would invest in superficial human interaction. These people existed long before Sci-Fi. They used to be train watchers, bird-watchers, stamp collectors, whatever. Which doesn't mean that there weren't well adjusted people who also shared those hobbies.

I think PeterBound has an old-fashioned view of social networking. We have some people here who ask surprisingly naive questions about relationships, etc. (but they might just be quite young), but I don't think that posing those questions to virtual friends is any different than posing them to real-life friends. If anything, you have a much larger and more diverse sample here. I think this is an area where many people have a more progressive view of virtual relationships and that it's actually reactionary to place a higher value on a tangible presence just because it is tangible.

[Lyanna Stark]

I think PeterBound has an old-fashioned view of social networking. We have some people here who ask surprisingly naive questions about relationships, etc. (but they might just be quite young), but I don't think that posing those questions to virtual friends is any different than posing them to real-life friends. If anything, you have a much larger and more diverse sample here. I think this is an area where many people have a more progressive view of virtual relationships and that it's actually reactionary to place a higher value on a tangible presence just because it is tangible.

This is pretty close to what I was going to say as well. Sometimes it can be very helpful to get a point of view from people who would normally be outside your peer group. I find it immensely enriching and interesting to read about different people from various places, how they view their life/work/politics/etc.

A relationship us ultimately what you make of it, whether it's mostly online or mostly meeting someone down the pub.

[The_BlauerDragon]

What Iskaral just said.

If I may, I'd like to add a bit on the issue of asking for personal advice on here. I've done it before. I will probably do it again. After years of coming to this forum I have come to respect the opinions, experiences, and openness of the members here. I do think that there is a much deeper pool of perspectives to draw from here than there is within my small pool of family and friends. Many times I have asked the same questions here that I have asked of my real life family and friends. Sometimes, I have asked questions here that I was not comfortable asking anyone that I know in real life about.

Also...

I fall into that category of people that just do not have the best social skills. I have very few friends (I just don't make them easily), but the few that I have are fiercely strong friendships. Even then, there are certain things that I just don't feel comfortable discussing with them. Relationships have become of these topics. It's not because I do not value the input that my friends and family might have to offer. It's because every bit of advice that any of them have ever been able to give me on the topic has boiled down to either "Destroy everything of who you are, and become someone else... fake it for the rest of your life if you have to" or "Forget about anything resembling standards and look for someone that will want you simply because they have no other options to choose from", and neither option is something that I can bring myself to accept. So, instead of going after the same advice that I have always gotten, I come here to get a fresh perspective from people who have little incentive to try and force me one way or another and who have a much more varied background to draw from.

So there you have it... My two cents.

Oh, and as far as the original topic of nerd hate stereotyping goes: If I had the opportunity, confidence, or the means I would very much enjoy dressing up in the most bizarrely intricate costumes and walking through a ren-fest, con, or other event completely in character. So, I guess you can put me squarely in the basement dwelling nerd category (just minus the basement, the time and cash for going full bore into a subject, or the gall to actually try out the costumed freakery). Even I make fun of LARPs though.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Today, I accidentally put my skilsaw down on top of my copy of An Autumn War, which was promptly sliced in half. It feels like I've created some sort of nerd / anti-nerd paradox. Like I'm crossing the streams, or something.

Hey my dad put his down on top of his own finger with similar results. I suppose one takes what one can get.

I've never really been a geek or nerd. I've been mistaken at times for a stoner, some kind of savant, some kind of moron, some kind of hippie, or a psychotic, but never a geek or nerd.

I think the definition of nerd has moved past people who like SciFi and moved on to vegans, people who obsess about the enviornment, and supporters of fringe politicians like Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich.

ETA: also - hipsters

[Balefont]

What Iskaral just said.

If I may, I'd like to add a bit on the issue of asking for personal advice on here. I've done it before. I will probably do it again. After years of coming to this forum I have come to respect the opinions, experiences, and openness of the members here. I do think that there is a much deeper pool of perspectives to draw from here than there is within my small pool of family and friends. Many times I have asked the same questions here that I have asked of my real life family and friends. Sometimes, I have asked questions here that I was not comfortable asking anyone that I know in real life about.

<snip>

I remember when you first joined. I enjoyed watching your transformation and absorption into our community. It was adorable and I still want to give you a noogie.

Peterbound will either stick around and eventually "get it" or he'll fight "it", call it being cliquey, get fed up and then find another online community that is perhaps more inline with his personal views on online interaction.

Bottom line: We've seen this all before.

[Lord of Oop North]

You sliced a book in half!?!?

Don't worry, I wept.

[Eponine]

I attended high school, college and grad school/previous job all in different towns, and the friends I had from those times have spread out all over the country and the world. I've only lived where I do now for about a year. So the lines between my "real life friends" and my internet friends is blurry anyway, especially since I've met several people on this board in real life.

I've been on the board for longer than I've known any of my new friends in Colorado. And the last thing I'd do is share my real life problems in person with someone I've known less than a year. That's socially inept. OTOH, if I say something on the board, people can decide whether they want to read it or not. And partial anonymity and distance can be good when seeking advice. The board is mostly a neutral sounding board, and not wrapped up in my life emotionally the way that my family and closest friends are. My family gives terrible advice anyway :)

***

When I consider LARPers or people who dress up for cons or really anyone who is totally immersed in sci fi and fantasy related things, I don't think that they're gross or crazy, but I'm just not inclined toward that kind of thing myself, so I wouldn't go out of my way to make friends with those people in favor of finding friends with similar interests to myself. But I don't consider them different than people who get totally immersed in non-geek activities.

It's hard to be around someone whose whole life is totally centered around something that you don't care about. Some activities that people center around are even things that I respect. But listening to them go on and on gets very tedious.

Furries. Gotta talk about furries. I guess I draw the line between those who think dressing up is a fun activity and those who think that they're actually housing the soul of a wolf and need to manifest it. The first is just not my thing, like other displays of geekdom. The second is fucking crazy. Once you start being so into something that you're self-delusional about who and what you are, that's too much for me.

[peterbound]

I remember when you first joined. I enjoyed watching your transformation and absorption into our community. It was adorable and I still want to give you a noogie.

Peterbound will either stick around and eventually "get it" or he'll fight "it", call it being cliquey, get fed up and then find another online community that is perhaps more inline with his personal views on online interaction.

Bottom line: We've seen this all before.

Ha, you'd be surprised how long i can 'fight' anything.

As to the advice, i see no issue asking about accounting problems, maybe the occasional medical experience (IUD vs Depo) But for me, i'll never come on here and ask someone how to sweep my wife off my feet or how to talk a girl into the sack, or what I should do about my current girlfriend. I just find it odd.

And hipsters.. i fucking hate hipsters.

www.latfh.com ... check it out.. do you self the favor

[naz]

On asking advice of the board:

What others have said is true, especially Isk, who talked about the world being a different place, socially speaking. But I would keep in mind that this board is probably more the exception than the rule. Sure, there are niche communities here and there for all sorts of people, and people find a comfortable online home where they can. But I certainly wouldn't be asking for advice from 'strangers' anywhere but here. Before coming here, I used to frequent another online community in which I made some great long-lasting friends, but even that place wasn't anything like this board, as far as the level of discourse.

So I can see how someone new to this forum might find it weird to see as much disclosure as happens here, but make no mistake... a YouTube comments section this is not.

On being perceived as a geek/nerd in today's world:

I think we're in a very weird time right now, where this is concerned. True, geekdom has certainly achieved a level of respectability it's never had before, thanks to your Bill Gateses and your Tina Feys. But I still consider those people to be exceptions, in that they are accepted precisely because they're successful. Because they've either capitalized on the geekness to make oodles of money or somehow overcome it in a way that makes them 'cooler' in the eyes of the general public. And I think the perception of being a nerd nowadays is more linked to one's social behavior rather than one's interests or hobbies. In the digital world, one clear thing we've all observed is that there are people who are into ANYTHING, and that the Net cultivates one's interest in esoteric things, so that people are no longer as surprised to find out that a coworker is, say, a closet Buffy fan, or is massively obsessed with Star Wars figurines.

The idea that people are obsessed about things - whether they're traditionally considered escapist fantasies like comics or sci-fi or wizards and elves - has become commonplace in the new world, so the 'nerd' tag has only loosely become tied to those associations. Or at least, it's become cooler to be a nerd in THAT particular way.

But I don't think it's any cooler to be a nerd or geek in the other way, i.e., to be socially inept or withdrawn. I think people who exhibit this kind of behavior are perceived as odd or awkward anyway, regardless of what offbeat things they're into. Well, actually, if they're into offbeat things, I imagine it makes it worse, but it's definitely not a mutually dependent dichotomy.

[Aemon Stark]

However, to me, anyone that comes onto a message board consisting of people they hardly know and asks for relationship advice is begging to get fucked with. How in heaven and earth is that considered even remotely normal? If in fact they are not a /nerd/ (I think geeks are a little more refined) they should have actual friends to discuss these issues with. Not some random stranger on the interweb.

I don't think this is a prejudice, i just think that this is a clashing of two different types of people, those who fit well into society, yet like the above mentioned things; and those who like the above mentioned things yet still think it's ok to seek relationship advice on a fantasy message board.

Just my view of it.

I've only ever done this rarely, but I think it's presumptuous to say that people posting advice-seeking threads do not have "actual friends" to discuss such issues with. This is about as neutral a sounding board as you can get, though, and it is often helpful to seek advice from people who are completely removed from the specifics of the situation. As for myself, I can't think of a time where I've started such a thread (something I can count on one hand) without having already discussed the issue with friends and/or family in real life.

[Kat]

The people on this board, collectively, are more likely to give me a reasonable answer to a question than my RL friends are. I think that says something about the company I keep. ;)

I would characterize myself as probably one of the nerdier boarders. Less geeky, though. I've got nerd credentials in spades, however. See that one ComicCon thread from a few days ago on the distinctions between the two.

Used to feel like people hated me, so I started hanging out with my own kind more often. It's not that I look down on non-nerds, but sometimes I want to be around people who think that modeling tide levels is a fun, casual, spontaneous evening activity to do while drinking.

[peterbound]

On Being a Nerd/Geek

I'm only very recently been getting to know everyone's jobs/professions. From what i've seen many of the folks here are in fields that might lend themselves to nerdy/geeky nature (lawyers, students, mathematicians, accountants; no offense just not very 'blue collar' jobs). So they may have a different outlook on whether being a geek/nerd is cool. I can, however tell you, that as a FF and Prior military these traits are not look well upon in those circles.

I don't hide the fact that I like the shit i like, but i don't have to, i'm bigger than most of my co workers. But I sure as hell ain't going to invite them to a book signing up in denver or a con down in Santa Fe. That kinda shit would go down like a fart in church.

No one i know thinks geeks/nerds are 'kewl'. Strangely enough they are all lined up at Gamestop when the new madden drops and get a hard on every time the watch '300' in blu-ray.

And we all hate hipsters.

[Ocean of Notions]

On Being a Nerd/Geek

I'm only very recently been getting to know everyone's jobs/professions. From what i've seen many of the folks here are in fields that might lend themselves to nerdy/geeky nature (lawyers, students, mathematicians, accountants; no offense just not very 'blue collar' jobs). So they may have a different outlook on whether being a geek/nerd is cool. I can, however tell you, that as a FF and Prior military these traits are not look well upon in those circles.

Really?

[peterbound]

Really?

ha, i'm guessing you're being funny.. but ya. You'll get the occasional guy that reads some SFF while deployed. For some reason every FOB i went to had fucking the entire Recluse series in the MWR and just about everything else written by Modesitt. Shit load of Jordan over there too.

Beside that though, no better way to lose social standings in a unit/flight than ask someone to dress up as a super hero or play some D&D. The inevitable, are you a Gay, will come up in the extremely macho crowd and in the more mellow crowd they just won't talk to you.

Maybe we should start a 'good fantasy' book donation to send to Iraq/Afghanistan.. as most of the books in that genre are shit

[Aemon Stark]

On Being a Nerd/Geek

I'm only very recently been getting to know everyone's jobs/professions. From what i've seen many of the folks here are in fields that might lend themselves to nerdy/geeky nature (lawyers, students, mathematicians, accountants; no offense just not very 'blue collar' jobs). So they may have a different outlook on whether being a geek/nerd is cool. I can, however tell you, that as a FF and Prior military these traits are not look well upon in those circles.

Which traits do you mean? I don't see what this has to do with "blue collar" jobs (Why must you bring class into this? :P), and I don't tend to think of lawyers or students generally as "nerdy/geeky". To the extent that any of this pertains to social awkwardness, a field like medicine is generally very ill-suited to awkward introverts, yet physicians geek out about "interesting findings" on a daily basis. (Note that you never want to be a patient who such findings, can be described as an "interesting case", or who gets seen by multiple physicians at once.)

And we all hate hipsters.

Well, who doesn't?

[Galactus]

Why must you bring class into this?

Because nerdy hobbies tends to be focused on certain things (texts, literacy, analysis, to some extent maths) which are different skills from traditional "blue collar" jobs (which doesen't mean they're neccessarily better paid...)

People tend to work with things they like doing/are good at (not exclusively, but there definitely tends to be an overlap)

There's also issues of time, etc. It's a lot easier to take time off to post on a message baord when working at a computer than when you're cutting down trees :P

and I don't tend to think of lawyers or students generally as "nerdy/geeky"

Eh... Yeah, I'd say students are possibly the geekiest social group ever.