Mafia Game 73 (Mk. II)

[House Targaryen]

It's a hard decision. You're all fellow Knights, you have fought side by side in dozens of battles, piling glory on your names and Houses as loyal subjects to House Targaryen and favored paladins of King Daeron I, the Young Dragon.

Recent discovery that one of you isn't what he seems doesn't make it any easier. You all look the same as you always did! How can you send a man who has saved your life in countless occasions to torture?

It is with a heavy heart that you finally decide that something seems amiss with House Karstark, and single him out to 'enjoy' Lothston's hospitality.

The Knight accepts your judgment in dignified silence, and accompanies the two guards like a lamb led to the slaughter.

It is hours later that Lothston arrives to inform you of the result of your decision. "I was thorough" he mumbles "and I fear Sir Karstark may never again be the man he was... One thing is certain though; He was a true Knight, and no faceless man or fiend. I hope your choice is wiser next time".

It is night. Anyone who hasn't sent their actions in please hasten to do so.

ETA the final vote count:

It is day 1.

12 players remain: Clegane, Connington, Dayne, Inchfield, Karstark, Kettleblack, Lannister, Mallister, Redfort, Royce, Tollett, Vance.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or 6 to go to night.

5 votes for Karstark ( Vance, Connington, Royce, Inchfield, Clegane)

4 votes for Inchfield ( Tollett, Dayne, Kettleblack, Lannister)

2 votes for Vance ( Redfort, Karstark)

1 vote for Dayne ( Mallister)

[House Thorne]

Goddammit.

[House Dondarrion]

Okay, seriously, WTF?

Dayne's tunnel vision on you makes a lot more sense than yours on Clegane.

And you never explained your "weid theories" comment about Tollett, either!

Will do at work.

As for my tunnel vision, it is what it is. You know all too well about being tunnel visioned as an innocent so it shouldn't really come as a massive surprise to you. Difference between Dayne and I is tht Dayne wants to take every post I make and tell me it makes me evil. That isn't the case 90% of time. People slip up then have chance to correct their mistake.

But if it makes you feel better, I will reread him later today.

[House Clegane]

:bang:

Well, sorry about that, but I suspected Karstark more than Inchie.

Sorry, Karstark, since you were not a FM.

Yes. Saving me doesn't change that when I specifically said evils would want me out of the way. He doesn't get a pass for that.

I will do some fresh rereads from work later today if Dayne leaves me alone long enough.

No, saving you doesn't mean anything. As I said I just hope you spend some time looking at other people because if you're innocent you're wasting your time.

[House Tully]

Awesome. :tantrum:

[House Dayne]

Dayne wants to take every post I make and tell me it makes me evil. That isn't the case 90% of time. People slip up then have chance to correct their mistake.

But Clegane's use of the word 'weird' is a mistake that can never be rectified?

(sorry, didn't resist temptation hard enough)

I was hoping we'd get an alt reveal on death.

[House Thorne]

Why, whatever could you be talking about? I don't think House Lannister has been tunnel-visioned at all this game! In fact, your Canister-ness has been quite open-minded.

*coughs*

*whistles innocently*

Okay, it's one thing to be tunneled on someone and find 90% of their posts suspicious. It's another to be tunneled on someone based on ONE WORD in their first serious post of the game. The first can be innocuous, while the second is phony.

[House Thorne]

Dayne, mentat Is modding. What did you expect?

[House Dayne]

Tollett, no offense, but I don't think you've earned the right to use the tantrum emoticon. I could have used some help earlier in the mid section of the game. Just sayin. <_<

[House Dayne]

Dayne, mentat Is modding. What did you expect?

touche :)

[House Tully]

Tollett, no offense, but I don't think you've earned the right to use the tantrum emoticon. I could have used some help earlier in the mid section of the game. Just sayin. <_<

No one controls over what tiddly, unreasonable detail I might throw a tantrum!

Or, put differently: Fair enough. I don't have as much time as I'd like to play and what time I have is limited to a particular time of day.

[House Redfort]

Role reveal:

I am a limited healer. To make my powers work, everyone has to agree with my theories. And yes, I can heal myself.

:P

[House Clegane]

I'll explain myself to Clegane later.

Sinc you're around, can you do that?

[House Tully]

I have a hard time with Tollett. I said I understood where he came from on the confusion about who was the symp/FM between Lannister and Vance, but I skipped through this part. I think someone else already asked a question about Tollett's change of mind on the possibility of fake symping, but I don't remember seeing Tollett's answer, so I reiterate the question.

Since things are quite for the moment and I never did answer this:

I thought I explain what triggered my change of mind in that same post: The fact that I'd misunderstood Dayne's accusation. When I thought Dayne was accusing Lannister of being the symp it was impossible for Vance to be fake-symping (FM don't, as a rule, fake-symp). Once I realised Dayne meant Vance was the symp the possibility of fake symping became... possible.

[House Redfort]

Sinc you're around, can you do that?

Sure. Only after my breakfast though.

[House Redfort]

Ok I don't know if it's the headache or if it's because Redfort's answer to me makes little to no sense and I have a hard time getting it.

I'll try to break it down

That was the original quote. So you say your theory requires Lannister to be FM and Vance to be symp or FM (since Vance has to know about the partnership. So 1st question: why vote Vance and not Lannister?

Because Vance behaved suspicious and I wanted to put pressure on him. At this point it wasn't a given to me that they had to be partnered. Only later I realized that Vance's reaction only made sense if he was Lannister's partner. I don't think a symp would have reacted that way. If you read my original case against Vance, I felt that he reacted like someone who is evil and who is being accused of something that ain't true (and who is thus pissed).

So you understand why Vance would react this way if he's innocent, you have to look for reasons to think he's evil, and still you make a "case" and vote for him? What I understand is that you tried to fabricate a case on Vance.

No, I don't understand his reaction. However, if Vance is innocent, he told us the truth and we have to live with that. Note that I am not 100 percently sure of Vance's guilt. Otherwise I would have pushed the case a bit more.

Why would Vance get some credit for getting an innocent lynched? He would look cleared of symp accusations, sure, but get credit?

Maybe I expressed myself poorly. What I meant is that after we see Lannister's CF, all the theories about a Vance-Lannister relationship would have been destroyed, which would have made Vance looking better.

If Vance is innocent, he knows the point is moot so he has the exact same choice.

I know. But I denied the possibility of Vance being an FM and Lannister being innocent, because (as Vance has pointed out in his first defense) an evil Vance would have probably joined the mob on Lannister. This was one of his reasons why my case wasn't valid. And well, he was wrong about it.

OK, so now you are assuming that Lannister=innocent and Vance=guilty, which is precisely the opposite of what you said in the quote I was initially questioning.

And why would you try to find reasons for Vance's guilt based on a behaviour you say makes sense for an innocent.

It's not the opposite. The opposite is that both Vance and Lannister are innocent. ;)

By now you should know my thought process, but I repeat it to make it more clear:

- first I stumbled over Vance's over-reaction, thinking he might be an FM who has been accused of the wrong crime

- then I came to the conclusion that this is not very realistic, as only Vance being a partner of Lannister would require such an aggressive answer; I confess this has been a stupid line of thinking

- however, later I realized that of course Vance can be evil with Lannister being innocent at the same time

I hope that clears the matter. :unsure:

Edit: fixed quotes and deleted last paragraph which has been by Clegane, not me

[House Clegane]

Connington, I have some questions for you:

you name me your top suspect (before or after Karstark it's not clear), yet your comments about me are

- I won't vote for Clegane even though I find him suspicious.

- I have a gut feeling Clegane is too cautious.

- he defended well against Inchfield and this make Inchfield look bad. (those 3 in the same post)

- I've reread Inchfield he looks better and confirmed my suspicions against Clegane

- Clegane is my top suspect

Inchfield was voting for me and intent on getting me lynched. I think Redfort had also made a comment that he didn't like me. With you, it could have been 2 or even 3. Why did you say you didn't want to vote for me? Why didn't you try and push the case on me to support Inchfield, especially if you had elements to bring in addition to him?

[House Clegane]

By now you should know my thought process, but I repeat it to make it more clear:

- first I stumbled over Vance's over-reaction, thinking he might be an FM who has been accused of the wrong crime

- then I came to the conclusion that this is not very realistic, as only Vance being a partner of Lannister would require such an aggressive answer; I confess this has been a stupid line of thinking

- however, later I realized that of course Vance can be evil with Lannister being innocent at the same time

Yeah, OK that clarifies the matter somewhat. I have the same problem with you and Tollett, I sometimes have a hard time following your thoughts process.

Now to come back on Vance, I've thought again about his reaction and I think it would make perfect sense for a FM unwillingly partnered to an innocent Lannister:

Either it gives the impression of an outraged innocent reacting strongly to accusations he finds stupid, which is good, either it gives an impression of panick. As Vance pointed out, the votes were piling on Lannister, so Vance had no reason to panick unless he's partnered to Lannister--> reinforcement of the suspicions on Lannister. If Lannister gets lynched and turns up innocent --> the partnership theory falls down and all is good for Vance.

[House Connington]

Karstark turning up innocent is regrettable but I'm not terribly surprised.

I don't think I would have jumped on the Inchfield alternative though. I do follow the arguments against Inchfield but he's not on my suspect list (yet) and I felt he showed signs he could be of use to the innocents, whereas I wasn't getting that much from Karstark.

Connington, I have some questions for you:

you name me your top suspect (before or after Karstark it's not clear), yet your comments about me are

- I won't vote for Clegane even though I find him suspicious.

- I have a gut feeling Clegane is too cautious.

- he defended well against Inchfield and this make Inchfield look bad. (those 3 in the same post)

- I've reread Inchfield he looks better and confirmed my suspicions against Clegane

- Clegane is my top suspect

Inchfield was voting for me and intent on getting me lynched. I think Redfort had also made a comment that he didn't like me. With you, it could have been 2 or even 3. Why did you say you didn't want to vote for me? Why didn't you try and push the case on me to support Inchfield, especially if you had elements to bring in addition to him?

These are good points. Mainly because I wanted more time to evaluate you because your playstyle shows you could be a useful inquisitive and sharp player and I didn't feel confident enough about my suspicions to risk losing you just yet. And finding nobody else suspecting you (except Inchfield who picked on one comment - I didn't notice Redfort had suspicions of you), made me wonder if I was seeing shadows where there were none. I did wait to see if my expressing suspicions made anyone else comment, but it wasn't happening. By the time I went there were only 6 hours left in the day so I put my vote on somewhere more productive.

The other reason was because you said you had a migraine and were leaving, and I didn't have time to make a case for you to answer before you left (and to be honest felt it would have been a bit mean). So I accepted I'd missed my chance to pressure you.

P.S. I haven't dropped my suspicion of you, just in case this post makes it appear that way.

[House Connington]

Connington already toasted the new rules because he didn't have to make a decision.

Oy! No, this was not me. I am the one who thinks voting is crucially important, and lamented that the rules might make people less inclined to vote.