Mafia Game 73 (Mk. II)

[House Baratheon]

All you said is that he could be an obvious killer.

No. I said that healer suggestion was not just doubtful, but suspicious.

And I am somewhat sure it was one of (many) reasons that pushed Vance's partner onto voting him. Because, you know, I am 99% sure he did.

But if you insist it meant nothing, so be it.

I feel I actually became a distraction.

Better spend your time on your tomorrow case against Tollett.

[House Thorne]

Royce, I don't think there is a symp, so it's a moot point.

No idea where I got the idea of a BP player. I must have imagined a claim.

So I've reread Day One.

Unfortunately, I find Vance's interactions with Royce and Inchfield almost symmetrical. Both players openly say positive things about Vance. Vance responds to minor points each of them made. And I'm not sure what to make of this:

Personally, I don't like the Inch case at all. It basically boils down to him changing his mind too often, during the first stage of serious posting.

Too obvious for partners in a CF game, or reverse distancing?

Inchfield, I'll admit that you made an excellent point that the Redfort kill wouldn't be optimal for you. However, I have to respond to this (since you're the one who accused Royce of using his own actions to prove he must be innocent):

On day 1, I pointed out to Vance that he should stop hiding, that he should post normally. Why would I do that on thread? If we're partners, why wouldn't I do that off thread or why wouldn't I suggest to him that he should continue until RP is over and fade out of it? I drew attention to the fact that he was hiding his identity and wasn't being completely truthful with us and while it didn't lead to him being guilty right away, it did make others like Clegane think about why he was still alive given he was going to such lengths to hide himself. As his partner, doing something like this makes no sense as there is no benefit at all. You might think I was planning some elaborate distancing but if that was the case, wouldn't I have gone a lot further than just a comment?

I think this is a weak point. Most killers make an effort to interact naturally on the threads with each other. Tollett and Royce both commented on Vance's all-caps. Particularly since you later dismiss the entire case against Vance as "He's hiding, which is annoying, but might make him look more innocent."

I also don't think too much would have been made of Vance surviving, either. Even though we didn't know there was an evil guard, I find killers tend to go for more obvious threats rather than gamble on someone who MIGHT be roled, but might also just be changing his posting style for fun.

As we know, I voted Vance instead of Connington. You can say that's distancing. But after Vance comes back, what possible gain would we as a partnership have in him attacking me superficially? I already did the distancing and really, it was good hard distancing. I put him even with Connington. So why go after me when you come back to distance further when the first thing people will do when you flip evil is reread you? Again, if you assume I'm a good player, think about why I would allow Vance to do that if we're conversing in our secret forum.

You can't necessarily control Vance's actions. It's possible that he decided himself to distance from you. I can see an FM doing that in an effort to interact "naturally" with a buddy.

Inchfield. There's been something I've been meaning to say for a long time, and it's starting to drive me crazy.

You know why people suspect you?

It's not because we're tunnel-visioned and deluded and persecuting you.

It's because your behaviour has been fucking suspicious this game.

Just accept that there's a reason that Kettleblack, Dayne, Tollett, and I have all independently had you as our top suspect at various points of the game.

I'm sick of you blaming your attackers for your own bad play (if you're innocent; if you're guilty, you've been playing really well from D2 onward).

I've just reread Day One. Most of the time, you don't come across as though you're insolently trying to stir reactions. You look like you're pulling shit out of your ass. You kept on crying to the heavens that see, you do have opinions, and you are active and commenting on stuff! But your opinions could be broken down as 1) I agree with everyone else that Karstark is wishy-washy, 2) I don't see the case on Vance because hiding isn't always suspicious (which is really simplifying it), 3) look, Redfort is rolefishing (which is also an easy thing to attack someone for), and 4) Clegane is EVILZ.

You fixate on Clegane for his first post of the game and then ignore his defence against your bloated case on D2. You over-dramatize the cases against you and throw barbed attacks at players who suspect you (like at Dayne, whom you didn't even suspect). You try to paint anyone who attacks you as the bad guy (like with your "fictitious theories" comment).

You leave Vance for near the end of your rereads, and Royce and Tollett both say negative stuff about him before you do (although admittedly, that would be crappy distancing on your part).

When I suspected you, I was tunnel-visioned. When I was open to all possibilities, I was overanalyzing everything.

You are really, really frustrating. Yes, often I see your point of view on things. But you need to realize that if you're innocent, you bear most of the responsibility for making what should have been an easy choice a difficult one.

--------------------

Right now, I feel that Tollett is innocent. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I can sense it in the posts he's made today. Furthermore, I DON'T believe he'd have killed Redfort--it wouldn't be in character for him.

Also, I've been rereading Day Two. He's the second vote on Vance (tying him with Connington). True, there was momentum elsewhere, but his distancing seems a bit premature.

But whom to vote today.

Logic says Royce, but gut says Inchfield.

Royce's behaviour at the beginning of the day was horrendously scummy. It has improved a bit, though.

I don't understand how everyone suddenly looks so innocent. You are making this choice brutal.

[House Thorne]

Wait a minute, do we really have twenty hours left until the end of the day?

Phew. I thought I'd have to check later on my phone from work to cast a vote.

Heading off now.

[House Dondarrion]

Royce, I don't think there is a symp, so it's a moot point.

No idea where I got the idea of a BP player. I must have imagined a claim.

So I've reread Day One.

Unfortunately, I find Vance's interactions with Royce and Inchfield almost symmetrical. Both players openly say positive things about Vance. Vance responds to minor points each of them made. And I'm not sure what to make of this:

Too obvious for partners in a CF game, or reverse distancing?

Inchfield, I'll admit that you made an excellent point that the Redfort kill wouldn't be optimal for you. However, I have to respond to this (since you're the one who accused Royce of using his own actions to prove he must be innocent):

I think this is a weak point. Most killers make an effort to interact naturally on the threads with each other. Tollett and Royce both commented on Vance's all-caps. Particularly since you later dismiss the entire case against Vance as "He's hiding, which is annoying, but might make him look more innocent."

You can't necessarily control Vance's actions. It's possible that he decided himself to distance from you. I can see an FM doing that in an effort to interact "naturally" with a buddy.

Ok. It's weak.

Inchfield. There's been something I've been meaning to say for a long time, and it's starting to drive me crazy.

You know why people suspect you?

It's not because we're tunnel-visioned and deluded and persecuting you.

It's because your behaviour has been fucking suspicious this game.

Just accept that there's a reason that Kettleblack, Dayne, Tollett, and I have all independently had you as our top suspect at various points of the game.

I'm sick of you blaming your attackers for your own bad play (if you're innocent; if you're guilty, you've been playing really well from D2 onward).

I've just reread Day One. Most of the time, you don't come across as though you're insolently trying to stir reactions. You look like you're pulling shit out of your ass. You kept on crying to the heavens that see, you do have opinions, and you are active and commenting on stuff! But your opinions could be broken down as 1) I agree with everyone else that Karstark is wishy-washy, 2) I don't see the case on Vance because hiding isn't always suspicious (which is really simplifying it), and 3) look, Redfort is rolefishing (which is also an easy thing to attack someone for).

You fixate on Clegane for his first post of the game and then ignore his defence against your bloated case on D2. You over-dramatize the cases against you and throw barbed attacks at players who suspect you (like at Dayne, whom you didn't even suspect). You try to paint anyone who attacks you as the bad guy (like with your "fictitious theories" comment).

You leave Vance for near the end of your rereads, and Royce and Tollett both say negative stuff about him before you do (although admittedly, that would be crappy distancing on your part).

When I suspected you, I was tunnel-visioned. When I was open to all possibilities, I was overanalyzing everything.

You are really, really frustrating. Yes, often I see your point of view on things. But you need to realize that if you're innocent, you bear most of the responsibility for making what should have been an easy choice a difficult one.

Not quite.

I said you were overanalyzing because what you do is post 8 different times about how you're unsure who to vote. You did it again now. You constantly go back and forth, back and forth. You did it with Vance. The only reason you can claim any credit to Vance is because Mallister hammered him. You did it with Connington at the end. You've done it with me and Tollett all game. That's what you do. The tunnel vision is the fact that no matter how I've played from day 2 on, you've just focused on my actions on day 1 and to be honest, I don't see my actions as making me guilty.

Unfortunately for you, the decision is ultimately going to be yours. People think you're the most innocent and you are. But you can't make that decision because you're too damn afraid of being wrong. So you analyze, over analyze then analyze some more. And then you don't know what you think anymore. As a player, it's frustrating.

If I played bad, so be it. I'm never particularly good on day 1. I don't ever claim to be. I'm generally much better later on and in my opinion, I've proved my worth.

Right now, I feel that Tollett is innocent. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I can sense it in the posts he's made today. Furthermore, I DON'T believe he'd have killed Redfort--it wouldn't be in character for him.

Also, I've been rereading Day Two. He's the second vote on Vance (tying him with Connington). True, there was momentum elsewhere, but his distancing seems a bit premature.

But whom to vote today.

Logic says Royce, but gut says Inchfield.

Royce's behaviour at the beginning of the day was horrendously scummy. It has improved a bit, though.

I don't understand how everyone suddenly looks so innocent. You are making this choice brutal.

I don't understand what you read. We have pointed out inconsistency after inconsistency with Royce. Your only real points against me are my day 1 actions. You haven't really had anything knew against me since then and yet you keep coming back to that despite all the information on the table. If you want to vote me, then just get it over with and do it.

You, Mallister or Clegane will be killed tonight. It'll be 4 tomorrow. Go to night. It'll then be down to Royce and Tollett and given the fact that you're so sure about Tollett, it shouldn't matter. If you don't believe there is a symp and you think that Tollett is innocent, then it shouldn't matter who you lynch today right?

[House Dondarrion]

Wait a minute, do we really have twenty hours left until the end of the day?

Phew. I thought I'd have to check later on my phone from work to cast a vote.

Heading off now.

If we have to wait another 20 hours before myself or Royce die, I'm going to cry. It's between one or the other and given your own statements, it shouldn't matter who dies today or tomorrow.

So either allow me to go spend some time in the spoiler forum or end the game. But please, lets not drag this out for another 20 hours when we've been talking about it all weekend and every single comment has been analyzed.

[House Clegane]

I'm waiting for Tollett to post his reread of Inchfield, and for Mallister to answer those questions. Then I'll make my final choice for today.

At the moment I want Royce lynched. There have been a lot of things bothering me about him and not just his interactions with Vance. It's his assertion that Kettleblack was killed for his alt, his comment on "who is not here?" when waiting for morning scene last night, his vote for Mallister and questioning on the voting system when the mobs were building on Vance and Connie,... I also find his lack of second vote on Mallister on day 2 out of character, and yes I meant for innocent "Royce". I've not played for a very long time so it's possible things have changed and I'm wrong on that though.

And I can't help thinking that Vance's interaction with Royce on day 1 looks weird. I especially don't like the fact that Royce responded to Vance but ignored Kettleblack the whole time. Yes, he finally answered, but that was much much later on.

I'm sick of doing rereads and try to analyse stuff. I have this voice in my mind screaming it's Royce, and it doesn't help being objective on the others.

But I still want to see what Tollett has to bring on the table before making my choice.

[House Mooton]

If we have to wait another 20 hours before myself or Royce die, I'm going to cry.

me too.

Royce

[House Clegane]

me too.

Royce

Can you still please, please answer my questions?

[House Baratheon]

Logic says Royce, but gut says Inchfield.

I don't understand how everyone suddenly looks so innocent. You are making this choice brutal.

Can you be my lost twin?

Logic says Ichfield, but gut says Tollett. Inchy did all he could to compromise me today, making me looking diabolic © - logically, it's hard to admit an innocent player would pervert arguments that way. But he is emotional, he is passionated... whilst Tollett is nice and cool. I remember times when we lynched players in endgame for being nice, and were often right.

Ok, perhaps it's my personal expression, since Inchfield attacks me and Tollett attacks not me - but still...

And yeah, everyone looks somewhat innocent in this game. That's why am much less aggressive than usual: I can't smell any real shit.

Do you know, I have another plan. Lynch me (if you doubt me strong enough) and look at who will be killed. You trust Tollett and distrust Inchfield; Mallister trusts Inchfield and distrusts Tollett. I somewhat doubt last killer would have balls to eliminate his potential friend over his potential foe, even if aware of the catch. Then, alive PI should revaluate his previous opinions for win.

[House Tully]

I'm waiting for Tollett to post his reread of Inchfield, and for Mallister to answer those questions. Then I'll make my final choice for today.

I'm typing it now. Bloody over a hundred post superfreak poster... *mumble* *mumble* *mumble*

[House Mooton]

Can you still please, please answer my questions?

Sure. Can you repeat it or point to it?

[House Dondarrion]

I'm typing it now. Bloody over a hundred post superfreak poster... *mumble* *mumble* *mumble*

I don't envy you rereading me. I reread you and Royce earlier and that was hard enough with posts being out of order over 3 pages. I can't imagine the pain it would be to read my posts. It's one of the reasons I never bothered to reread Dayne.

[House Clegane]

For Mallister

Quickly checking in.

I didn't see Royce saying it. Only Dayne.

Besides: do you seriously think there is a symp if there is a killer guard?

If you are convinced Royce is the symp, then is it not safer to lynch him and keep more time to find the reamining FM? Because if you are right and Tollett is not his master, we lose tomorrow?

1 last one: why did you reveal yesterday first thing in the morning? I never asked but have been wondering for some time.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 4.

6 players remain: Clegane, Inchfield, Lannister, Mallister, Royce, Tollett.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or 3 to go to night.

2 votes for Inchfield ( Tollett, Royce)

2 votes for Royce ( Inchfield, Mallister)

2 players have not voted: Clegane, Lannister.

[House Baratheon]

In fact, with six players we can't lynch Inchfield without Mallister's vote and we can't lynch Tollett without Lannister's vote, and both is close to impossible. So it's either me or dragging day/night for eternity. And if I'll survive, I'd have to make a gargantuan case on another suspect alive tomorrow, which is too much for lazy me, since I know I look objectively worse than each of them.

Boy and girls, I wish of one of two things: 1) if day 2 lasted for two hours longer, which could result in me axing Vance except of Mallister and so becoming PI myself; or 2) if I was lynched yestrday, when I thought it was of no real importance if an innocent would die. But all this is moot, of course.

Egoistically, I'd prefer to die today and to blame a lose to players alive than to fight for another day against my unluckiness, which will win me most likely anyway.

[House Thorne]

Okay.

I've made my decision.

I'm voting Royce today.

I think that would be the hammer vote now, though.

Let's wait for Tollett's reread first.

[House Clegane]

I don't envy you rereading me. I reread you and Royce earlier and that was hard enough with posts being out of order over 3 pages. I can't imagine the pain it would be to read my posts. It's one of the reasons I never bothered to reread Dayne.

I've given up on rereading a particular player, it's a pain in the ass and you don't even have the context. I instead do selective rereads of game bits that seem relevant. Of course, it relies a lot on my memory.

[House Thorne]

Royce, can't you just admit that you're evil if you're evil instead of torturing me more? :(

[House Mooton]

For Mallister

Besides: do you seriously think there is a symp if there is a killer guard?

I don't know. I have a major problem with the set up/balance, but that is for the spoilers.

If you are convinced Royce is the symp, then is it not safer to lynch him and keep more time to find the reamining FM? Because if you are right and Tollett is not his master, we lose tomorrow?

I have changed my vote to Royce

1 last one: why did you reveal yesterday first thing in the morning? I never asked but have been wondering for some time.

It was my plan from the time I learned my role. There are 2 reasons to do it first thing: if I waited until I was under pressure, I might be doubted more; the second reason was to give us all time to discuss the vig target.

[House Baratheon]

I don't envy you rereading me. I reread you and Royce earlier and that was hard enough with posts being out of order over 3 pages. I can't imagine the pain it would be to read my posts. It's one of the reasons I never bothered to reread Dayne.

Well, when rereading Vance, I just skimmed through first half of the thread, looking for posts with Vance's avatar and ignoring everything else. It looked easier that dealing with board search mechanics.