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House Targaryen

Mafia Game 73 (Mk. II)

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Dammit, Mallister.

Mallister, if you're innocent, then you're being disgustingly selfish right now.

You just thought Tollett was your top suspect, so you voted for him because you wanted the game to end. Now you're sure Inchfield is evil, because he wanted to go to night. But you're not doing anything to push his lynch.

Have you reread the thread once all game? Made a single case? I don't think so.

Congratulations. You are now the player most likely to be lynched today even though you were the tie-breaking vote on an FM, and needlessly claimed a role on D3 that would almost certainly appear in the game (mentat loves vigs) when you'd have been the last FM alive and seven players around who might counterclaim you. And the player who announced you were clear died that night. And it's only because you're coasting so obviously. (Well, that, and the alternatives look so innocent.)

Step it up. Right this second. Or get lynched and bear the brunt of this loss for the innocents.

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Inchfield, I was talking about Kettleblack.

Kettleblack's last words were essentially, "Pretty sure this flips clears Lannister and Mallister." According to him, Mallister came out looking even better than Dayne. Then Kettleblack was nightkilled.

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Inchfield, I was talking about Kettleblack.

Kettleblack's last words were essentially, "Pretty sure this flips clears Lannister and Mallister." According to him, Mallister came out looking even better than Dayne. Then Kettleblack was nightkilled.

Ok. If he is guilty, it was a bold move hammering Vance but it did clear him to make the claim and be believed. He coasted from there.

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Gah...this is so annoying. Mallister's behaviour is suspicious, and I can see Clegane's theory that Mallister was testing to see if Kettle would switch before deciding not to risk it and throw his partner under a bus (which explains why he was so emotional, or why he was more interested in whether Kettleblack would vote Vance than whether Dayne or I would vote Connington)...but the role claim? Mallister seems the impulsive type, but even for him, that was bad.

And both Connington AND Dayne picked up role hints from his posts. And Mallister's reactions on D3 came across as so spontaneous (particularly the part about being afraid that Royce had caught on). Inchfield, even you admitted that you thought Mallister's reactions came across as genuine before.

I don't know if the same evil Mallister who made a horrible role claim would also be this devious in setting up his claim.

I hate this. I feel like I'm jumping at shadows and seeing whatever it is I want to see. One moment Inchfield looks so innocent it's blinding, the next his posts seem forced and manipulative.

Seriously...fuck you, last killer. Especially if you're Inchfield. Fuck you. :bawl:

I'm doing a reread of the game, with special focus to Mallister (which is easier than just rereading Mallister with the board the way it is). I'll post my conclusions later.

Inchfield, in how long are you getting off for the night?

Because if I do choose to vote Mallister, I want you around to hammer and put us out of our misery if you're evil (or CI yourself if you're not).

Two things would have been done if I was evil.

1. I would have killed you. That leaves Clegane and Mallister alive for me to use against Tollett.

2. If for some reason, I did kill Clegane, I would have followed Mallister's vote with my own and a whole lot of reasoning on why it must be Tollett. That would have been 2 votes on Tollett to zero on me and it would have forced you to make a decision. Either you would have to go with Mallister and I or you would have to stand up against us and force Mallister to switch. To be honest, given your propensity to flip flop, that's a chance I would take.

I would not, however, make a big deal of trying to get to night right away so that I can kill you (when I could have done it the previous night) so that Mallister/me would kill Tollett right away. It's not the easiest way nor the most logical. And I don't like to hedge my bets that I can convince people using WIFOM techniques when the most obvious generally works with a whole lot less work.

I tend to play to people's prejudices, not try to force them to question them. That's manipulation 101.

There is something I don't get.

Why is it any harder to go to night immediately and then lynch Tollett (while also giving Tollett reasons to doubt Mallister tomorrow and making my kill look less obviously tied to you by giving Mallister a motive for it) than it is to lynch Tollett today and work really really hard to get me to change my mind?

You weren't forcing people to question their prejudices by voting night. On the contrary, I do think Mallister has a point that going to night (which makes you look like a responsible innocent concerned with correct play) would be logical for an evil in your position. Because even though I might have caved eventually, convincing one person to make the wrong decision takes less work than convincing two. And again, it looks like what a responsible innocent would do.

This way, you're still making it easy to lynch Tollett the next day.

Also, judging from this post, I think that Clegane might have voted for you over Tollett today had he been alive:

I also agree with you, my suspicions of Tollett have been going way down. I have to check back Tollett's reaction to Royce's plan.

ETA: checked it and it means nothing.

Inchie, I agree that from your POV as evil killing Kettleblack on night 1 would have been the best bet. He suspected you but was starting to go strongly after Connie. Dayne and Tollett were more dangerous because they were so tunnelvisioned on you, besides you were accusing Tollett.

(I left in the last paragraph to be more objective.)

So I do think it would be reasonable for you as evil to push Mallister as an option, and use the Clegane kill as a last-ditch effort to sow paranoia. Killing me might have been too obvious after Royce lampshaded the choice.

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Inchfield, in how long are you getting off for the night?

Because if I do choose to vote Mallister, I want you around to hammer and put us out of our misery if you're evil (or CI yourself if you're not).

I'll be around for about 4 hours off and on. If you're rereading the game, also keep an eye on Tollett. We've overlooked him today with the Mallister stuff.

There is something I don't get.

Why is it any harder to go to night immediately and then lynch Tollett (while also giving Tollett reasons to doubt Mallister tomorrow and making my kill look less obviously tied to you by giving Mallister a motive for it) than it is to lynch Tollett today and work really really hard to get me to change my mind?

You weren't forcing people to question their prejudices by voting night. On the contrary, I do think Mallister has a point that going to night (which makes you look like a responsible innocent concerned with correct play) would be logical for an evil in your position. Because even though I might have caved eventually, convincing one person to make the wrong decision takes less work than convincing two. And again, it looks like what a responsible innocent would do.

This way, you're still making it easy to lynch Tollett the next day.

Also, judging from this post, I think that Clegane might have voted for you over Tollett today had he been alive:(I left in the last paragraph to be more objective.)

So I do think it would be reasonable for you as evil to push Mallister as an option, and use the Clegane kill as a last-ditch effort to sow paranoia. Killing me might have been too obvious after Royce lampshaded the choice.

It's a matter of effort.

Look at this way. I'm a logical person. You should see this in the way I go about doing things. I would take the shortest path to my ultimate goal instead of coming up with elaborate schemes that rely on a certain set of outcomes.

First, you have to assume I had a reason to kill Clegane instead of you. Why would that be? He didn't think I was guilty and while he might have said Tollett was going down on his list, he never said he thought Tollett was more innocent over me. However, you have thought me evil since day 1. You were an immediate threat and not something that I could easily manipulate in my opinion because you have pre-conceived judgements about me. My best move is to kill you.

Now, lets say I didn't kill you. I thought Clegane was a bigger threat. Maybe I wanted to play mind games though what that accomplishes, I do not know since Clegane's death didn't do a thing for me. The next move, in your mind, is that I go to night and then try to get Tollett lynched.

I guess in theory I could have done this. But it's not the shortest path. It's the long path and it requires too many steps I cannot control.

What if you are on instead of Mallister and you decide not to go to night? It's not like I can set you up as guilty so I would need Mallister to refuse. Also, why go to night when Mallister is already keen on Tollett? I voted night after Mallister. You could flop onto Mallister. Why try to get Mallister to go to night like I did instead of making a very large post about the benefit of night?

Then there is this post.

I know. But I don't think you will. And to be perfectly honest, if I was in your situation, I probably wouldn't either given I'm still alive and always suspected.

My most immediate suspect would be Tollett. One reason is because I always suspected him. The second is that Royce could have been his symp if there was a symp in this game. He was making some pretty obvious overtures at the end.

Well you're CI. You should die tonight. Leave Lannister, Clegane, Tollett and myself. We go to night, kill Clegane then leave Lannister, Tollett and myself. Now that'd be a fun final day.

ETA: This post was meant to be done during night. I wanted Mallister to be NKed. He wasn't. Not a fan of this turn of events.

I made this post 3 minutes after night ended but was responding to Mallister during night. There was 10 minutes between Royce's lynch and end of night. I didn't expect that. If I was guilty and setting up this elaborate plan, don't you think I would have waited to send in my night kill so I could properly set up my plan?

You can clearly see that I was trying to set up Mallister as the night kill. I was calling him a CI and telling him he should die. I wanted him to die because he never proved his kill and I needed to be sure Tollett was guilty.

I just can't imagine you thinking that my elaborate plan was to ultimately set up Mallister as the last baddy and confuse everyone when the easiest way for me to win was to keep people around who believed in my innocence and lynch Tollett.

One minute later, I said this.

No.

Night

I don't like you still being alive. You have never confirmed your role. I want to see you dead.

So if you think this is an elaborate plan, I must have preplanned it all from the message during night to the plan to go to night so that I can paint Mallister as the bad guy even after Mallister voted for Tollett. It's just too damn complicated for me to ever really consider, especially because I didn't even do it right by setting up the night posts the way I should have to make it most effective. If you think I could create and pull something off like this, then you have to expect I'd do it a little bit better than I did.

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I'm seriously baffled right now.

Karstark would've claimed if he'd had a role. Kettleblack claimed to be RI. Only Redfort might have been a vig. Assuming there was a vig (which is a very common role), then Mal's odds of being countered were seven in eight.

Did Mallister even bring up the possibility of an evil guard before his kill failed? I'd expect him to set it up better if he had.

Mallister, if you're an FM, this was the most illogical move I have ever seen in any Mafia game.

Can't you do SOMETHING right now to look like you aren't evil? Just one thing?

Your posts today all come across as very flippant, as though you wrote them with a smirk on your face. If you're innocent, we are going to lose right now. Work a bit!

Or even better, just claim scum right now and lower my blood pressure.

Right now, I'm going insane. My head is full of convoluted conspiracy theories.

Maybe I should go back to Tollett and see I can see him as evil. He's doing a good acting job if he is.

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Thanks, Inchfield.

I have one last question for you.

Also, where do you get a BP from? You said 2 FM (evil guard) + symp vs vig and BP...Did I miss a claim somewhere?

When I made that post, did it occur to you that I might be bulletproof?

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I'm seriously baffled right now.

Karstark would've claimed if he'd had a role. Kettleblack claimed to be RI. Only Redfort might have been a vig. Assuming there was a vig (which is a very common role), then Mal's odds of being countered were seven in eight.

Did Mallister even bring up the possibility of an evil guard before his kill failed? I'd expect him to set it up better if he had.

Mallister, if you're an FM, this was the most illogical move I have ever seen in any Mafia game.

Can't you do SOMETHING right now to look like you aren't evil? Just one thing?

Your posts today all come across as very flippant, as though you wrote them with a smirk on your face. If you're innocent, we are going to lose right now. Work a bit!

Or even better, just claim scum right now and lower my blood pressure.

Right now, I'm going insane. My head is full of convoluted conspiracy theories.

Maybe I should go back to Tollett and see I can see him as evil. He's doing a good acting job if he is.

Was it the most illogical move? He just lost his partner and while no one suspected him, there were people out there that were suspected a lot less. If he didn't make the move, he would have been focused on, especially in a battle of attrition. The reason no one did focus on him was because of his claim and his hammer.

I don't know. I think it's a calculated risk given the nature of the game and the kind of people left in the game. I don't know if I would do it but I could see a lone FM taking a risk to win the game instead of getting himself narrowed down when he knew that his partner was dead and he had nothing to really separate himself from him. It's not the first time someone has taken a chance on a false claim.

Also remember the way he did hammer him. He did it with authority and if you look at it in retrospec, it looks like he wanted to make sure he was the one to do it. He had no prior belief that Vance was guilty before he hammered.

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Thanks, Inchfield.

I have one last question for you.

When I made that post, did it occur to you that I might be bulletproof?

No. When you made that post, I already had the assumption that Mallister was vig. In that case, I was assuming there was also a healer so vig + healer seemed like enough roles. If you were BP, it would have been unbalanced. Only reason I asked is because I didn't remember a BP claim and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

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You know what?

Mallister

I may change my mind after rereading Tollett, but I just want one thing cleared up right now.

Inchfield, if you are evil, then you deserve this victory based on your performance over the last couple of days.

I apologize Dayne and Kettleblack in their graves if you've pulled a fast one on me, but I don't see how you can be evil.

Inchfield, post and either end this or let me cross one more person off my suspect list.

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I won't end this until you've had a chance to look at Tollett one more time if you want to. I'm not that confident in Mallister that I would end it without that last look. So please go ahead while I make some dinner.

If you don't want to, I'll take a quick look when I'm done and see though to be fair, I know Tollett like the back of my hand and can probably recite his entire post history at this point.

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It is day 5.

4 players remain: Inchfield, Lannister, Mallister, Tollett.

3 votes are needed for a conviction or 2 to go to night.

2 votes for Mallister ( Tollett, Lannister)

1 vote for Inchfield ( Mallister)

1 vote for Night ( Inchfield)

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So, Inchfield, my very best CI buddy in the whole wide world.

It's a good thing I always knew you were innocent, right?

:leaving:

Your play over the last couple of days really rang true to me (particularly your reaction to the lynch yesterday), but I wanted to be 100% sure before placing my vote.

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