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The First Law Series (Spoilers included!)


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Just quietly, did everyone else love the imagery that Joe gave us when Logen first meets Bayaz in his little mountain sanctuary?

Bayaz isn't the fair mystical looking dude, instead he was the butcher. We should of known from then Bayaz's true ways.

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I picked this up on Audible, and I'm giving them a listen as its been several years since I read them. I love the narrator. Steve Pacey is fantastic. His Glotka with the lisp just kills me.

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I was very sad to see this happen, but I still can't rank it at the top of the "Oh shit!" list like Rob Stark's death in ASOIAF. It seemed obvious, in my own mind anyhow, that by the third book, Joe was trying to show that Logen, while a cool character isn't the type that most people would want to rally around. He has some serious flaws, not the least of which is killing his own friends while in berserk mode! I think by the end of the book Dogman seemed more like the equilibrium, with guys like Black Dow and Logen and Bethod farther down the scale. At least that was my feeling. Honestly, I felt the worst death in the series was Threetrees. I was sad to see him go, although how he died at least gave him some dignity, in that he went out fighting.

The ending allowed Abercrombie the ability to bring Logen back if he chose to do so. I personally hope he does because while flawed (if you call killing your own friends flawed) he is an interesting character and Im tired of reading books with cookie-cutter characters that you can predict the storyline half way through the series.

Hopefully he doesnt ruin the character by Logen learning to control the Bloody Nine

I thought the series started slow in book one but by the end of the last book I have thrilled with the story and the characters.

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Logen's fairly old, his personality has matured way past his younger days. When he was young, his own personality was barely different than the Bloody Nine's personality. These days they're as far apart as you can get, it's highly unlikely there's a psychotherapist around that could get Logen to merge them.

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Logen's fairly old, his personality has matured way past his younger days. When he was young, his own personality was barely different than the Bloody Nine's personality. These days they're as far apart as you can get, it's highly unlikely there's a psychotherapist around that could get Logen to merge them.

True but it is fantasy and writers have ruined characters before....

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I haven't yet read BSC and with Heroes on the horizon, does anyone know, or has Joe himself said, what kind of timeline we are looking at from the end of the trilogy, to BSC, to Heroes? I thought I read that Heroes takes place in something like a week's time. I guess my reason for asking is in regards to Ferro and Logen. If the two still have a chance. Not that I personally like Ferro but because it seemed like, regardless of the situation, Logen REALLY started to change as someone mentioned above. It would be interesting to see Logen and the Bloody nine continue to drift apart, making his rage and his remorse all the greater.

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I haven't yet read BSC and with Heroes on the horizon, does anyone know, or has Joe himself said, what kind of timeline we are looking at from the end of the trilogy, to BSC, to Heroes? I thought I read that Heroes takes place in something like a week's time. I guess my reason for asking is in regards to Ferro and Logen. If the two still have a chance. Not that I personally like Ferro but because it seemed like, regardless of the situation, Logen REALLY started to change as someone mentioned above. It would be interesting to see Logen and the Bloody nine continue to drift apart, making his rage and his remorse all the greater.

BSC is three years after the trilogy. I don't know when Heroes is set, but sometime after that. I recommend you just read BSC, because me just telling you the answer to what we know about Ferro/Logen's fate isn't going to be very satisfying. Let's just say that neither are main characters in BSC.

Speaking just of the first trilogy, I'm not sure I fully agree that Logen is progressing and moving away from violence, but the Bloody Nine keeps rearing its ugly head. Several times through the trilogy, Logen has a choice on whether to choose violence or peace, and he always chooses violence, because it's all he knows. Why did he come back to the North to fight Bethod? Was a civil war really going to help things? Why did he come back to Adua? Was the presence of his Northmen really going to make a difference in this conflict between two great powers? (its not like he didn't know) Why did he then go back North and confront his former friend Black Dow? Were those scores really worth settling? He talks a big game about learning to appreciate companionship, etc, but in the end whenever he is given the choice, he always chooses killing and war. Blaming the Bloody Nine is just making excuses for a lifelong killer.

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But not everything is violence for him. I'm reminded if the last scene between Jezal and Logen. Where Jezal

mentions that he thinks Logen is one of the best men he knows.

Really, no matter how little Jezal changed, he changed with Logens help and advice.

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I read The First Law a year ago now and on the whole I enjoyed it. At least I did right until the last quarter of the third book that is... I have to admit that I didn't really like any of the characters (which I think Abercrombie intended) and even after growing to really like Logen over the course of the trilogy I utterly despised him in the end, after he went back north. Throughout the entire series my favourite characters were Logen's old crew (especially the Dogman) and the way they treated Logen when he returned at first shocked me. As the book went on however, and he showed just why he deserved such treatment I slowly lost all liking towards his character. The pinnacle of this dislike occurred when Logen killed his 'friend' in the heat of battle (Tul Duru (sp??) I think it was, can't remember now.) I know that in itself disliking a character in a book isn't that big of an issue, but when the said book contains very few (if any) likeable characters it doesn't leave you with much enjoyment.

I'm currently reading Best Served Cold and I'm finding a similar issue. I really don't like the main character; she's simply mean to everyone she comes across. Her every reply is either rude or aggressive, so much so that I'm surprised she's survived as long as she has (I'm about 3/4 of the way through). I'm not sure what it is about these books, I really like them but Abercrombie seems to either relish writing nasty characters (to the point that that's all there is) or he just doesn't care for nice (or even remotely decent) characters. I think the only characters in BSC that I actually want to have a good ending are Coska and Friendly, and I'm not expecting them to after how Last Argument of Kings ended. Other than those two I used to like Shivers, until Monza destroyed him, and I even quite like Shenkt to a point, or at least much more than I do Monza and the rest of the characters I haven't mentioned.

I find myself in a weird situation. I enjoy the books but care very little for most of the characters and subsequently have little vested interest in their respective conclusions. This may just be a problem I have as I know most people here adore these books but I wish Abercrombie added a few more likeable people or at the very least didn't keep having such bad things happen to those he does write manage to include (Major West comes to mind!)

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Several times through the trilogy, Logen has a choice on whether to choose violence or peace, and he always chooses violence, because it's all he knows.

Well yes, this is the central conflict of the character. He doesn't want to be this good at violence, but he is and that's why he resorts to it so often. Almost every time he tries to do what he sees as right it ends up with him having to hurt people. A lot of people. He's not choosing between violence and peace, he's choosing between good and evil. Where good and evil is defined in his own terms.

The tragedy of Logen's life is that no matter how hard he tries he always ends up on a path of senseless violence. By the end of the trilogy he accepts this as his lot in life, that's actually why he goes off to fight Bethod. Sort of an "Oh well..." type thing.

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  • 1 month later...

The only thing I couldn't figure out the whole book was...

Who tried to break into Bayaz's room that first night? Was it definitely Tolmei or however you spell it? Because I got the feeling that that person died in the attempt.

And if not, is it clear EXACTLY when she takes over Quai's body? Or is it just a general time frame?

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I think the general idea is that the horribly mutilated body they find on the city grounds is the original Quai, and that she takes over from there. She's definitely wearing his skin for the entire trip to the Edge of the World, because Logen keeps thinking about how Quai has changed his behaviour during that whole thing.

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I've always wondered what Tolomei's been doing with her time. AFAIK, she's resurrected fairly soon as Bayaz tossed her off the tower. She's had centuries of free-time. Bayaz and Khalul built themselves armies. Some Magi like Cawneill went neutral and didn't do shit. But Tolomei's out for revenge, you'd have thought that she'd have grabbed herself a country too. Like Abercrombieland's China or something. Otherwise, what has she done with her free time? Unless she resurrected recently, which I see no evidence of, she's pretty lazy.

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Ahhhh forgot about the body, ok so basically sometime in the 1st or 2nd night in the city.

Which again brings up, who was it that was in the room that Bayaz "blew up"? Her? If so he definitely should have had his spider sense tingling right? Or is that taking-forms thing so in-depth that even the 1st of the Magi couldn't figure it out?

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  • 3 months later...

Going to necro this instead of starting a new thread, as I just finished The First Law and want to post about it. Seems to be the kind of thing you think about after you're done.

I couldn't help but be reminded of No Country for Old Men. It was an amazing movie, but when I walked out of the theatre, my first reaction was a bit of righteous anger. Anger and disappointment that Chigurh had survived the car crash, that he didn't get what was coming to him.

The same feeling came to me after finishing Last Argument of Kings. That Logen didn't meet his end with Black Dow's axe in his skull. That Glotka didn't get his throat slit by Rews. And most of all that Bayaz walked away from that cluster*$&% alive. It was just frustrating to me that people didn't get what was coming to them. And in the case of Bayaz, it's more than that: The Villain walks away at the end, and I guess I'm not down with that <_<

In the end that's not a judgment on the book, but a reaction from my personal views. Last Argument certainly did a great job of tying together the series and making the first two books better in hindsight. I just wish I could have had something to be satisfied about at the end, I suppose.

You know, that's a good question. I got the sense that she spent a fairly long time in the ground, long enough to go very crazy from listening to the whispers, but I also don't think she popped out just in time for Bayaz' return to the city.

Another question about Tolomei: Bayaz shut the door of the House of the Maker, but there is another exit, an exit which I feel Tolomei could easily have survived given the punishment she took. I was very much hoping for an ironic end to Bayaz when Tolomei escaped the House by leaping again from the top and coming to kill that smug, bald asshole.

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I think it works fine, but the worry is that Abercrombie's attitude is that "When formulaic fantasy novel goes left, you turn right". I hope he doesn't get stuck doing this, because otherwise he is very good.

Good way to put it. Hopefully it won't turn into a formula of its own. Conventions are there because people liked them, after all. They aren't a plague to be avoided at all costs.

Like I really loved what he did with Bayaz in creating a non-traditional villain, but in the end I couldn't handle the villain winning :(

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He writes good prose, excellent characters and good stories. I just hope he doesn't think the "go left" trick is cleverer than it really is, likewise the unhappy ending trick. I've heard him compared to Tarantino several times. I really hope this doesn't somehow become true: at least half of Tarantino's stuff is self-indulgent and superficial.

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