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The First Law Series (Spoilers included!)


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Edit: Just wanted to add. The only person I truly believe didn't stick to who he was is Jezal. I guess I just honestly believed he had changed for the better. I don't believe he would've bowed at the end to Bayaz like that. But I guess I've never been melted from the inside and I also guess maybe Joe is just trying to teach me something and this is still one last painful lesson about how people really don't change.

Jezal DID change -- but changing doesn't automatically turn one into a hero. He had to change within his own natural limits. At the beginning of the books he wouldn't even have cared about making a difference or helping people. At the end of the books he cared and wanted to do better, but that doesn't mean he magically gains tons of courage to go along with his new desires.

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Jezal DID change -- but changing doesn't automatically turn one into a hero. He had to change within his own natural limits. At the beginning of the books he wouldn't even have cared about making a difference or helping people. At the end of the books he cared and wanted to do better, but that doesn't mean he magically gains tons of courage to go along with his new desires.

And in addition, he really didn't have a lot of options. He doesn't have any idea what Bayaz is capable of or how to confront him. His best plan is to try and do the best he can with what he has, not try and stab the old man in the back only to find that Sulfur is surprisingly also in the room.

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And in addition, he really didn't have a lot of options. He doesn't have any idea what Bayaz is capable of or how to confront him. His best plan is to try and do the best he can with what he has, not try and stab the old man in the back only to find that Sulfur is surprisingly also in the room.

I agree that he would probably submit. And like I said, none of us know how we would handle our insides melting, maybe I just didn't like to see it in action. I really started to like him. I just don't believe he would've been the baby he was and pulled away from the window and hid behind the curtains in terror when Bayaz smiled at him from the garden. That part kinda sits unwell with me since he had been so brave and courageous recently leading the charges, going among the hospitals, trying to put others before him.

More importantly, I still want to know how the reincarnated Tolomei couldn't escape the Tower after being locked in, when clearly she knows the secrets or at least one entrance that she can control. Seems like a semi-major plot hole for me.

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I agree that he would probably submit. And like I said, none of us know how we would handle our insides melting, maybe I just didn't like to see it in action. I really started to like him. I just don't believe he would've been the baby he was and pulled away from the window and hid behind the curtains in terror when Bayaz smiled at him from the garden. That part kinda sits unwell with me since he had been so brave and courageous recently leading the charges, going among the hospitals, trying to put others before him.

Sounds like a torture victim confronted by a torturer to me. You can't expect bravery there.

It's easy to unlock the door if you have the key. Without it, impossible.

Haha. That does make sense.

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I like the trilogy very much (haven't read the stand alone novels)

Logen is probably my favorite character, and most likely the most tragic. I also enjoyed reading about the Northmen, with Threetrees, the Dogman, Grimm, and the others.

The one thing I didn't like about the series was how it ended, as in not quite complete. And Bayaz turned out to be a complete a**hole. All he did was for his own personal reasons. I really don't believe that he actually cares about the Union or humanity in general. He has his personal vendetta with the other mage (forgot his name) and tries to use everyone as pawns.

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The one thing I didn't like about the series was how it ended, as in not quite complete. And Bayaz turned out to be a complete a**hole. All he did was for his own personal reasons. I really don't believe that he actually cares about the Union or humanity in general. He has his personal vendetta with the other mage (forgot his name) and tries to use everyone as pawns.

I agree with all these things, but why didn't you like it :P ?

Seriously, I thought the ending was pretty great. Action packed, and then with a reasonable conclusion. We always assume that the end of a fantasy series will be the dawning of a new age, but really, how often does that happen? What seemed to be the climactic battle to save civilization turned out to be only a tactical victory for one side that could at best be called the lesser of two evils.

Not the ending I expected, but I found it quite satisfying.

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I agree with all these things, but why didn't you like it :P ?

Seriously, I thought the ending was pretty great. Action packed, and then with a reasonable conclusion. We always assume that the end of a fantasy series will be the dawning of a new age, but really, how often does that happen? What seemed to be the climactic battle to save civilization turned out to be only a tactical victory for one side that could at best be called the lesser of two evils.

Not the ending I expected, but I found it quite satisfying.

Well I would have liked it better if someone would have bitch slapped Bayaz a little, and told him to piss off.

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Well I would have liked it better if someone would have bitch slapped Bayaz a little, and told him to piss off.

Maybe you will get this ending in the concluding trilogy, but sure as hell not before.

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Well I would have liked it better if someone would have bitch slapped Bayaz a little, and told him to piss off.

IIRC, Logen and Ferro both told Bayaz to piss off in thier own way. As for the rest, Bayaz's uppance has not yet come. It will, one way or another.

Also, you should read the two standalones, they are both a lot of fun in their own way. And while the overarching story doesn't advance in quite the way it does in the trilogy, there are nonetheless plenty of important things going on which you could get spoiled on reading these threads.

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What about the balconies or windows? Seeing as she "doesn't die" now, I thought she'd be able to survive jumping from heights such as those.

While I'm sure Joe can fight his own battles, there's no guarantee that he'll be back, so I'll chime in with my second rate excuse for why this makes sense. We don't know how many windows and balconies there are in the House of the Maker, all we know is that there is at least one. And we don't know where jumping off that one balcony will lead you, it might just be a different part of the House of the Maker (like an interior courtyard or something). After all, this is a place where you can get to the top of the city without ever going up. Although whether that's because of passive magic or because the Maker invented the elevator is anybody's guess.

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While I'm sure Joe can fight his own battles, there's no guarantee that he'll be back, so I'll chime in with my second rate excuse for why this makes sense. We don't know how many windows and balconies there are in the House of the Maker, all we know is that there is at least one. And we don't know where jumping off that one balcony will lead you, it might just be a different part of the House of the Maker (like an interior courtyard or something). After all, this is a place where you can get to the top of the city without ever going up. Although whether that's because of passive magic or because the Maker invented the elevator is anybody's guess.

Ah, gotcha.

But she was thrown off the first time, why not just go to that spot and jump off?

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It's easy to unlock the door if you have the key. Without it, impossible.

Can't she like jump off the top, and like use magic to float down?

edit: Oh lol, someone had the same exact thought as me above.

Well I would have liked it better if someone would have bitch slapped Bayaz a little, and told him to piss off.

imo

Most satisfactory ending to me would be Bayaz in a Red-Wedding type situation, where Glokta is the Lord Frey, where Bayaz just sees everything he worked for (his own power) taken away from him, and just gets owned in every way, physically, mentally, and socially.

Honestly, I think the best method for this would be for Glokta to seduce Sulfur away from Bayaz somehow.

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Most satisfactory ending to me would be Bayaz in a Red-Wedding type situation, where Glokta is the Lord Frey, where Bayaz just sees everything he worked for (his own power) taken away from him, and just gets owned in every way, physically, mentally, and socially.

Honestly, I think the best method for this would be for Glokta to seduce Sulfur away from Bayaz somehow.

This is a spoiler thread (at least for the first trilogy).

Everyone seems to attribute more agency to Glokta than is really in the text. I don't remember which boarder initially pointed it out, but Glokta is incredibly loyal. He first looks after Ardee for his friend West out of loyalty. He goes along with Sult's plans even when they almost assuredly will result in his own death in books 1 and 2. It is only when he is torn in multiple directions by Sult and Bayaz that he has to choose to split his loyalty, and he correctly abandons his former master. Glotka has never shown the ambition to become the master puppeteer, and he doesn't inspire loyalty in his followers like Bayaz (see Frost and Severard). I expect he will oppose Bayaz in little ways, because Bayaz gives out some leash, but he will serve loyally in the end.

There's a real chance that if we get a second trilogy, that Bayaz's house of cards will come tumbling down, but I think expecting Glokta to do it is unrealistic.

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It's easy to unlock the door if you have the key. Without it, impossible.

lol. At least it's from the man himself.

Although, having your Tower beseiged might be a good time to keep track of the only key to the only entrance into your "impenetrable" fortress no? Would seem to me like Kanedias should have had some foresight into the (supposed) ONLY way into his tower. At the moment my roommate is whoring my book, or I'd look it up, but wasn't Kanedias suspecting her at the time also? Seems like it'd be a long shot that he overlooks where the key is and if his potential traitorous daughter might have it. Although the more I think about it my whole perspective is mostly from Bayaz, so perhaps things aren't all what they seem.

O well.

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There's a real chance that if we get a second trilogy, that Bayaz's house of cards will come tumbling down, but I think expecting Glokta to do it is unrealistic.

JEZAL! JEZAL! JEZAL! /end chanting.

I would absolutely love a continuance of this series where Bayaz gets his comeuppance. We're talking Harry Potter-esque line-waiting, camp out from me.

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lol. At least it's from the man himself.

Although, having your Tower beseiged might be a good time to keep track of the only key to the only entrance into your "impenetrable" fortress no? Would seem to me like Kanedias should have had some foresight into the (supposed) ONLY way into his tower. At the moment my roommate is whoring my book, or I'd look it up, but wasn't Kanedias suspecting her at the time also? Seems like it'd be a long shot that he overlooks where the key is and if his potential traitorous daughter might have it. Although the more I think about it my whole perspective is mostly from Bayaz, so perhaps things aren't all what they seem.

O well.

Bayaz has the key, remember?

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With so many people hoping/asking/begging for Bayaz's downfall, I have to question WHY? Yes, he is an arrogant prick. Yes, he uses the Union and it's people like pawns in a bigger game that they aren't even aware of. I get all of that. But if Bayaz gets owned, then the entire world is in the hands of Khalul, who as we know and understand, isn't any better, perhaps even worse. At minimum he is the equal evil to Bayaz and short of the humans somehow defeating these Magi, they will always be used and manipulated by them.

If the magic is draining out of the world, perhaps it is plausible but it would require the Union, the North, Gurkhul, etc etc etc all teaming up and all fighting these guys at once. If they kill on and don't go for the other, they will just be slaves of a new master and in the same position they are now.

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