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Lady Blackfish

A Thread for Small Questions IV

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Anyway, I doubt that was the only thing that set him off. Who cares if Dany's pregnant with some horselords kid? The only reason to care is if the kid would be a threat to his throne. But if you're worried about some newborn being a threat to the throne, wouldn't you care way more about that 13 year old boy who is the ACTUAL heir to the throne (if you go by the Targaryen line)? I dunno, it doesn't make any sense to me that Robert would not care about Viserys but would care about Dany being pregnant.

As I see it he was furious because she was pregnant from a Dothraki lord with a hundred thousand men following him, thus cementing a powerful alliance and assuring the next generations a strong contender for the throne.

If Dany had married a Pentoshi baker or a fisherman, I'm sure he wouldn't have minded her being pregnant.

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I've got a question about a section from AGoT.

When Arya is listening to Varys and Ilyrio talking. Varys says something about reading a letter Loras sent to Mace Tyrell. In the message Loras suggests that Mace offer Margaery to Robert to wed and bed.

Isn't that an odd thing to suggest? Not that Robert wouldn't mind bedding another woman but since he is married already to a high born lady and got three kids. Wouldn't Loras suggested attempt be seen as ridiculous if Mace had gone through with it?

Or am I missing something completely here? Did I missunderstand it? Was Loras refering to some other Robert (Sweetrobin?)?

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I assume it's just because of the fact that as king, Robert can put Cersei aside and take another wife. Like how Henry VIII put Catharine of Aragon, mother of his daughter, aside for Anne Boleyn.

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Or am I missing something completely here? Did I missunderstand it? Was Loras refering to some other Robert (Sweetrobin?)?

I've heard of May-December relationships, but Robert Baratheon/Sweetrobin takes the cake. Seriously, I can't imagine anyone tolerating that.

Like how Henry VIII put Catharine of Aragon, mother of his daughter, aside for Anne Boleyn.

I never met Henry the Eighth. Henry the Eighth was a stranger to me. But Robert? He's no Henry the Eighth.

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Something I have been wondering about House Blackfyre...

Were they exiled from the Seven Kingdoms or... did the stay in the red keep or have their own lands or somtehing?

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I assume it's just because of the fact that as king, Robert can put Cersei aside and take another wife. Like how Henry VIII put Catharine of Aragon, mother of his daughter, aside for Anne Boleyn.

I don't think so, The Lannisters would never let that happen it would affect the Lannister Pride.

Didn't they do something really bad to a woman Robert impregnated at Casterly Rock?

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If by "bad" you mean "executed her and her two children," then yes.

Haubsburg pride and power were in fact the reasons that Henry couldn't get a divorce from the pope. Sorta blew up in both their faces.

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Henry then proceeded to create his own church, right? But in Westeros we have a cloudier vision of the Faith and their comparable stances on marriage; I would submit that the very fact that Renly thinks it's possible for Robert to set Cersei aside means that it would have been, as it would be useless for the author to include this only to characterize Renly as somehow delusional, which he would have to be in order to be incorrect about a fact like this.

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Something I have been wondering about House Blackfyre...

Were they exiled from the Seven Kingdoms or... did the stay in the red keep or have their own lands or somtehing?

After the Battle of Redgrass Field (or is it THE Redgrass Field?) they became a house-in-exile. Before that, they seem to have been in limbo, Daemon and his children perhaps considered rivals by the legitimate Targaryen dynasty but remaining very popular throughout the Seven Kingdoms.

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Guest Other-in-Law

Henry then proceeded to create his own church, right? But in Westeros we have a cloudier vision of the Faith and their comparable stances on marriage; I would submit that the very fact that Renly thinks it's possible for Robert to set Cersei aside means that it would have been, as it would be useless for the author to include this only to characterize Renly as somehow delusional, which he would have to be in order to be incorrect about a fact like this.

The church of Rome was never dominated by the King of England the way the High Septons were dominated by the Kings of Westeros, so I'm sure Robert could have done it legally. It would have meant war against the Lannisters, naturally, but how could they stand alone against a realm united under King Robert against them? I

think Renly's confidence that it could be managed was reasonable enough. The biggest problems would have been getting Robert to sufficient backbone to do it, and, obviously, the Lannisters murdering him under everyone's noses way before it ever got that far, and co-opting the crown for themselves.

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If by "bad" you mean "executed her and her two children," then yes.

I feel compelled to point out that, 1) the rumor says that they had her sold into slavery and the twins executed; and, 2) it is JUST a rumor and Ned says that there are tales told like that of every lord in the land. Considering that Cersei never once thinks of it during her narrative it may well be only a rumor.

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To be fair, it is the kind of thing Cersei would do. She sent Allar Deem to kill one of Robert's lovers and her child, and never once thinks about in her POV chapters either. Cersei is a vial of malevolence.

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Of course there are many more houses in Westeros than we have completed data, but I was wondering if anywhere there is a list of the Houses whose age and provenance is known or known roughly, and if that information is provided? Whether the list exists or not, I think it would be good to include in a House's wiki entry, but I was hoping to get my hands on a list.

It seems to me that almost every house is described, and not only by its own members, as "ancient and proud," and while in Westeros, where the Starks and Lannisters, for example, have apparently been around for thousands of years, that seems not unreasonable on its face. Yet these nations are frequently at war, and were even more so before the Targs showed up, and even in peacetime it's a pretty rough world: you would think that most of these houses would have to be fairly new, established, say, within the last hundred years or so, yeah?

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Guest Other-in-Law

Of course there are many more houses in Westeros than we have completed data, but I was wondering if anywhere there is a list of the Houses whose age and provenance is known or known roughly, and if that information is provided? Whether the list exists or not, I think it would be good to include in a House's wiki entry, but I was hoping to get my hands on a list.

I think it'll be a fairly short list, and vague. Off the top of my head:

Hightower...Age of Heroes (were kings)

Dayne...Age of Heroes (said to be 10,000 years)

Stark...Age of Heroes (8,000 years or so?)

Royce...Age of Heroes

Greyjoy...Age of Heroes

Harlaw...Age of Heroes ("dawn of days")

Bracken...Age of Heroes

Blackwood...Age of Heroes

Gardener...Age of Heroes

Lannister...Age of Heroes (female line, male is Andal)

Westerling...Age of Heroes

Darklyn...Age of Heroes (were petty kings)

Crabb...Age of Heroes

Arryn...coming of the Andals (Some 6,000 years)

Darry...coming of the Andals

Lannister...coming of the Andals (male line)

Martell...at least 1,000 years, probably much longer

Karstark...1,000 years

Tully...have held Riverrun for 1,000 years (on the principle of there being at least one scottish sheep that is black on at least one side)

Manderly...have held White Harbor for 900 years, before that major lords in the Reach

Frey...600 years

Baratheon..300 years

Qoherys...raised to Harrenhal 300 years ago, since extinct

Whent...raised to Harrenhal some 70 ago

Clegane...on 3rd generation, a few decades

Baelish...on 3rd generation, a few decades

Rykker..raised to Duskendale 30 years or so ago

Seaworth...since 283 or so

There's more no doubt, but often vague.

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O-i-L,

I think it'll be a fairly short list, and vague. Off the top of my head:

[awesomeness]

There's more no doubt, but often vague.

Firstly, that you put together this list and posted it here at all makes you pretty wonderful as far as I'm concerned. Thank you!

Secondly, the fact that you did all this from the top of your head is pretty damn amazing. I don't think that gets said often enough around here. Thank you, and wow. :bowdown:

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As I see it he was furious because she was pregnant from a Dothraki lord with a hundred thousand men following him, thus cementing a powerful alliance and assuring the next generations a strong contender for the throne.

If Dany had married a Pentoshi baker or a fisherman, I'm sure he wouldn't have minded her being pregnant.

If he was a really good baker.

I've got a question about a section from AGoT.

When Arya is listening to Varys and Ilyrio talking. Varys says something about reading a letter Loras sent to Mace Tyrell. In the message Loras suggests that Mace offer Margaery to Robert to wed and bed.

Isn't that an odd thing to suggest? Not that Robert wouldn't mind bedding another woman but since he is married already to a high born lady and got three kids. Wouldn't Loras suggested attempt be seen as ridiculous if Mace had gone through with it?

Or am I missing something completely here? Did I missunderstand it? Was Loras refering to some other Robert (Sweetrobin?)?

I believe it was said by Renly that Margaery looks (or is said to look) like Lyanna Stark. We all know how Robert felt about her, so if that was true he'd probably put Cer aside and have a new Queen.

Afterall, he is the King from whom the authority derives.

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I've just been reading the ASoIaF Wiki, and specifically the entry on House Darry, and I have a few questions.

Firstly, in what context is Lord Darry called Ser Raymun Darry? Because apparently, at some point that is what he's called, and I wanted to know if it was a definite authorial error or if perhaps a character had referred to him by that name.

Secondly, why, if the Darrys used to be so wealthy and powerful (before the fall of the Targs), do they have such a small castle?

And lastly, it's apparently mentioned a million times that Darry is close to Harrenhal, so if the castle is so small, why didn't the king and his enormous retinue put up with Lady Whent instead? I mean, they're apparently so close, and the relative scale is ridiculous, no?

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Not an error in the earlier books. See ASoS, where the brotherhood without banners runs through the litany of the dead they lay at the Lannister feet: "Ser Raymun Darry, Lord Darry, Little Lord Darry". My own take on this is that Ser Raymun was heir to an aged, ailing Lord Darry we never meet, and then he dies some time after Ser Raymun is killed. Of course, things get confused with Ser Raymun's chambers being called the lord's bedchambers, etc. The only way I can fit these facts together is that either Ser Raymun is actually Lord Darry, but just prefers his usage of 'Ser', or it may be that his father or uncle or what have you has vacated the premises for sunnier climes (or perhaps he's joined a septry without relinquishing his title) and Raymun basically runs the show.

One of those details I've always meant to ask GRRM about.

I think the Darry castle was their traditional seat. It may be that they preferred to spend their money on other things instead of castle renovations. Or it may be that they lost other castles after the rebellion, much as the Peakes lost two castles due to supporting the Blackfyres.

Harrenhal was out of the way, and "so close" given the wheelhouse could mean a day or two extra each way. Darry must lie closer to the kingsroad. It's not like Robert was discomforted -- Darry's bedchambers were quite spacious and comfortable.

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Ran,

Patient, thorough, and insightful. I don't know how it's possible for work to be both typical and exceptional, but thanks.

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