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Boardwalk Empire


Anya, Vengeance Demon

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Thought it might be worth starting a Boardwalk Empire thread, since I couldn't find one on the forum and it's premiering in a week and a half. TV critic Alan Sepinwall just posted an interview with showrunner Terrence Winter:

So it’s a huge cast of characters. Just so many people and so many factions. Why did you want the scope to be this big, and why did you want to be telling the stories in Chicago at the same time?

It felt like Atlantic City was the focal point, and once Prohibition was enacted, the real Nucky was the guy who in 1928 sort of organized organized crime, finally got everybody to get from all over the country. So his reach politically went to Washington, D.C., really went right to the White House. His gangster reach went, once Prohibition was enacted, to New York to Chicago, etc. And because Capone and Torrio were such great characters and there was a natural connection there, I knew that Chicago would be part of this. I didn’t want to concoct reasons every week for these guys to be visiting Atlantic City, which is ludicrous, you know? They’d come there occasionally, so I said, "Well, we could actually go there or stories could play out there and they intersect or not, as the case may be." I think as long as it’s entertaining and it’s part of the natural storytelling, I don’t think people are going to call you on why you’re in Chicago. But as it turned out, those stories did intersect really well. Same thing with Rothstein. They had a lot of business together. Philadelphia and Washington, D.C. and there’s a lot of connections, so.

What do you see as the story of the first season, and then the series as a whole for as long as it manages to go?

I think the first season is Nucky’s. It sort of goes back to something Jimmy said in the pilot: "You can’t be half a gangster anymore." The world is changing and you have to change along with it and not necessarily for the better, but if you want to survive now you’ve got to accept the fact that the world is changing in a way that you’re not prepared for and I can help you get there. So it’s sort of Nucky coming full circle from corrupt politician to corrupt politician/gangster - crossing those lines. And that’s basically it, how 1920 really changed things for everybody. The season takes us all the way to the President’s election and there’s a political storyline that starts kicking into high-gear in episode 8.

This is probably my most-anticipated series; seriously cannot wait for this to air.

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It will be a huge hit and attract a respectable fan base, then be canned after two seasons like every other period series HBO has done.

Well, that depends. Rome was notoriously expensive (the first season cost almost ten million an episode), and Carnivale and Deadwood both had very high budgets as well. Boardwalk Empire has a very expensive pilot, because they spent a bundle on the boardwalk set, but now that HBO's spent the money, I don't know why they can't stick to sets most of the time with limited location shooting a la Mad Men and keep the per-episode costs low.

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It seems almost too good to be true. It's a dream-team of writers, directors and sctors, the only problem I can see with this show is that my expectations may be too high.

I need to check when sky 1 will be airing this.

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There are so many reasons why this should be awesome, no wonder people should be exciited.

1) It's HBO. And it's high time for then to come up with another big hitter drama.

2) From the producer/co-writer of The Sopranos.

3) The setting and all we know that time.

4) Steve Buscemi. Such a great actor. And then I see one of the very most charming actrices, Kelly MacDonald, also has a role.

Only danger is that it may not be as exciting a series as we're all hoping for. In any case, the trailer makes it clear the setting and actors very much look the part.

So this, Mad Men season 4, Sons of Anarchy Season 3 and In Treatment season 3 this fall. Awesome. Plus The Walking Dead. Maybe Caprica season 1.5 will be as good as the trailer makes it out to be as well.

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Hmm, couple episodes, see how it goes. Does anyone know if one of the UK channels has picked up the rights to this?

Sky One has the rights and has said they'll be showing it quite quickly after transmission, but it is not listed for this month so I assume 'quite soon' means a few weeks later, not the couple of days later we enjoyed for BSG and Lost. That does not bode well for hopes that they'll be showing GoT in the same week as US transmission.

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Well, that depends. Rome was notoriously expensive (the first season cost almost ten million an episode), and Carnivale and Deadwood both had very high budgets as well. Boardwalk Empire has a very expensive pilot, because they spent a bundle on the boardwalk set, but now that HBO's spent the money, I don't know why they can't stick to sets most of the time with limited location shooting a la Mad Men and keep the per-episode costs low.

Couldn't the same have been said for the Rome and Deadwood sets, though? From the special features on the boxed set, I know Rome spent a lot building the Lower Aventine set and on costumes, which BBC pitched in on. But once it was built and they had all the periodic clothing and sets to reuse, I don't understand why the S2 episodes continued to cost so much and a subsequent season was pushed off the table. Same with Deadwood. Carnivale I can understand, since it's a travelling carnival, but why the costs continued to spiral up for Rome and Deadwood, I don't understand.

I love all of HBO's periodic series though (yes, even Carnivale), and am looking forward to Boardwalk Empire. Can't believe I had to cancel HBO and Showtime right when BE and Dexter S5 are coming out, but I'll find some way to watch them.

ETA: I guess Rome also had to build the sets for Egypt, which probably bit hard into their S2 budget. But if S3 was supposed to take place back in Rome, then they could've reused their old sets.

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Couldn't the same have been said for the Rome and Deadwood sets, though?

David Milch was always rebuilding the Deadwood sets as the series progressed. You can them adding buildings and telegraph wires and so forth from episode to episode, including some that they'd show in construction at one point and then built up at another point. (This was part of the original conception of the show; David Milch wanted to do something in Deadwood because it went from a tiny mining outpost to a town with electric lights and telephones in a few short years.) I imagine that the same is true for Rome; the show goes to Cleopatra's palace for a few episodes, Vorenus gets a whole new set in season two, etc. Plus I understand that part of the cost issue w/r/t Rome is that Italy was just an expensive place to film.

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Sky One has the rights and has said they'll be showing it quite quickly after transmission, but it is not listed for this month so I assume 'quite soon' means a few weeks later, not the couple of days later we enjoyed for BSG and Lost. That does not bode well for hopes that they'll be showing GoT in the same week as US transmission.

Thanks for the details, Wert. I'll be sure to keep an eye out. This doesn't really sound like my cup of tea, but the level of quality may prove enough to overcome this.

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ETA: I guess Rome also had to build the sets for Egypt, which probably bit hard into their S2 budget. But if S3 was supposed to take place back in Rome, then they could've reused their old sets.

IIRC, the decision to end the series with season two was made early enough that Bruno Heller changed his original conception for the season (in which the war with Brutus takes up the entire season) so that the material with Antony and Cleopatra could be included as well. The motivating factor appears to be the BBC's reluctance to keep financing the show, which would have raised the costs on HBO significantly. That's not something that could arise in the case of Boardwalk Empire, which is produced by HBO alone.

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David Milch was always rebuilding the Deadwood sets as the series progressed. You can them adding buildings and telegraph wires and so forth from episode to episode, including some that they'd show in construction at one point and then built up at another point. (This was part of the original conception of the show; David Milch wanted to do something in Deadwood because it went from a tiny mining outpost to a town with electric lights and telephones in a few short years.) I imagine that the same is true for Rome; the show goes to Cleopatra's palace for a few episodes, Vorenus gets a whole new set in season two, etc. Plus I understand that part of the cost issue w/r/t Rome is that Italy was just an expensive place to film.

That all makes sense, but I don't really see why you think "Boardwalk Empire" will be any different with HBO. "Mad Men" is different in that it has to make do with the financial constraints of a (somewhat) small-time network, while HBO never seems to spare much expense with projects that they have high hopes for. That's not to say "Mad Men" doesn't do a great job of it (as does "Breaking Bad"). I just don't see the comparison. If BE does well for HBO and goes on for multiple seasons, I would think that Prohibition-era settings would cost just as much as ones set during ancient Rome or the end of the Wild West.

The motivating factor appears to be the BBC's reluctance to keep financing the show, which would have raised the costs on HBO significantly.

I was under the impression that BBC's contribution wasn't that significant. Something like 10 million to HBO's 100 million, or something like that. I could be wrong, though.

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That all makes sense, but I don't really see why you think "Boardwalk Empire" will be any different with HBO. ... I just don't see the comparison. If BE does well for HBO and goes on for multiple seasons, I would think that Prohibition-era settings would cost just as much as ones set during ancient Rome or the end of the Wild West.

I don't know for sure that it will be any different. But the show doesn't _have_ to be ridiculously expensive, simply because of its period setting. If HBO starts to freak out about the cost, there are ways to economize without necessitating that they cancel the show. The story of Boardwalk Empire isn't going to feature large pitched battles with a lot of extras; it's not like the Nazis ever stormed the beach of Ventnor. It _could_ take place largely on the existing sets, conference rooms, hotel rooms, office rooms, etc., a la Mad Men and still deliver a solid gangster show.

(I ran across a Variety article that lists the Boardwalk Empire budget as $5 million/episode, which the article says is on par with other HBO shows. The show also says that this includes the cost of the set built for the pilot spread out over twelve episodes, so season 2 could cost three million and change/an episode without sacrificing anything now that the set's already been built.)

In comparison, I expect the costs for A Game of Thrones to be a _lot_ harder to manage, because there are big action set pieces coming up for season two (like the Battle of the Blackwater) plus expensive new sets (like Qarth and possibly Harrenhal), and that's going to become even more true in season three.

I was under the impression that BBC's contribution wasn't that significant. Something like 10 million to HBO's 100 million, or something like that. I could be wrong, though.

Even so. Rome is the most expensive series in the history of the medium and season three was going to be ten million dollars _more_ expensive.

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I don't know for sure that it will be any different. But the show doesn't _have_ to be ridiculously expensive, simply because of its period setting. If HBO starts to freak out about the cost, there are ways to economize without necessitating that they cancel the show. The story of Boardwalk Empire isn't going to feature large pitched battles with a lot of extras; it's not like the Nazis ever stormed the beach of Ventnor. It _could_ take place largely on the existing sets, conference rooms, hotel rooms, office rooms, etc., a la Mad Men and still deliver a solid gangster show.

I can agree with all that.

But by my count, every series that HBO has put out in a periodic setting has been either prematurely ended or cancelled. Doesn't bode well for Boardwalk or AGOT, but maybe they'll work out if HBO is taking a more fiscally conscious approach to their projects.

(I ran across a Variety article that lists the Boardwalk Empire budget as $5 million/episode, which the article says is on par with other HBO shows. The show also says that this includes the cost of the set built for the pilot spread out over twelve episodes, so season 2 could cost three million and change/an episode without sacrificing anything now that the set's already been built.)

That's a great article. I'm now very excited about this.

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