More on America's Obesity Problem

[Sis Who Swears]

That article mentioned that my shower curtain might be an obesogen but didn't have any recommendations on what to do about it. What am I supposed to do? :uhoh:

No shit eh?

Apparently you need a fabric one.:shocked:

[Kat]

Here's another study on school nutrition education

In 2006, researchers from the Atkins Center began following the eating patterns of 238 Berkeley fourth- and fifth-graders. They wanted to know if the comprehensive nutrition program funded by the Chez Panisse Foundation and the Center for Ecoliteracy, two local nonprofits, was making a difference in kids' attitudes about food. They compared the students enrolled in Berkeley schools with highly developed food programs - cooking and garden classes, improved cafeteria lunches and nicer dining facilities - with other students in the district's schools that don't have such an extensive curriculum.

What they found was that the students in the more advanced programs increased their fruit and vegetable consumption by 1.5 servings a day, while the other students decreased their intake by nearly a quarter serving. The first group also scored higher on nutrition tests and actually requested "more leafy greens, such as chard, spinach and kale, with their meals," said Suzanne Rauzon, the study's research project director. Typically, kids that age couldn't even identify those vegetables, let alone list them among their favorites, she said.

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/23/MNBI1FHT33.DTL#ixzz10Ttn8dt3]

[turinturambar]

For some anectodal evidence, both my friends who became lactose intolerant, and my M-i-L who had to cut out dairy for a while for gallstones, all lost loads of weight really quickly. Dairy is a biggy.

Not all dairy. Milk is good for you, in moderation. Cheese, sour cream(and other creams), butter, and many other yum yums are extremely fattening though.

Also, just wanted to add (and sorry if this has been discussed at length, this is a long thread and I'm late to the game) that there is definitely a culture of acceptance of obesity in the US. Granted, there are tons of different body types and not everyone is made to be a size 2, but we keep growing bigger and we are just in denial about how it affects us.

When I went from being thin to overweight, all of my overweight friends kept telling me "you finally look healthy" even though before I had been in my ideal weight range for years. Because I was skinny, I wasn't healthy? But now that I WAS unhealthy, sick, and overweight, they thought I looked better? I still hear about it, and it is so concerning to me that they think that me at 161 lbs looks better than me at 120 lbs. I used to get a bit defensive about the perception that foreigners have of the US and our largeness, but I've come to see that a lot of it is not without some truth.

This is a huge pet peave of mine. This happens because people are ashamed of themselves and are not happy with the way they look and feel, so they convince others that this is the way to be and it's the rest of the world that's got blinders over their eyes. Nevermind that obese people rarely live to see old age, and even if they do their aged bodies pretty much seclude them to a recliner or bed with a death wish that somebody will eventually put them out of their misery.

I really wonder about meat though. I think that there's a chance that it's been unfairly vilified. I think that part of the problem with meat may be the kinds of meat that we tend to eat, as opposed to meat being inherently unhealthy. If people exclusively ate meat from animals that lived natural lives eating their own natural diets, I think there's a chance that meat would be far less harmful to humans.

It just seems surprising to me that meat would be inherently bad for us given how much of human history involves meat consumption.

No, meat is not inherently bad for us. This may be an anecdotal situation, but growing up in a farming community, I noticed that most farmers(and their families) lived to old age and were slim and in shape compared to others. And yet they ate meat nearly every day. Of course they lived active lifestyles and worked hard. Also, back home, the farms are mostly smaller farms that still consist of grazing fields and for the most part naturally raised animals.

Plus...ya know....if humans didn't eat meat, we'd still be swinging from trees.

Moreso than what kind of meat we're eating, is how we prepare it. It's much easier to simply throw it in the pan and fry it with a little oil and throw some cheese on it, than it is to bake, roast, etc.

[Tempra]

I thought I'd post this small story. It's about how Bill Clinton has switched to an almost entirely plant-based diet (a little fish, no other meat, no dairy).

It would not surprise me much if dairy is a big culprit. If not for cheese, I could give up dairy easily. That is my biggest dietary bugaboo.

I really wonder about meat though. I think that there's a chance that it's been unfairly vilified. I think that part of the problem with meat may be the kinds of meat that we tend to eat, as opposed to meat being inherently unhealthy. If people exclusively ate meat from animals that lived natural lives eating their own natural diets, I think there's a chance that meat would be far less harmful to humans.

It just seems surprising to me that meat would be inherently bad for us given how much of human history involves meat consumption.

There is no question that certain types of meats are healthier when they are natural (i.e. grass fed vs. corn fed beef). However, I don't think that is (main) reason why red meat, in particular, gets such a bad wrap. Most people eat meat in inherently unhealthy meals: hamburgers, steak and buttered potatoes, etc. The combination of high carb + high fat meal is generally a nutrition no no.

[smegma]

This is a huge pet peave of mine. This happens because people are ashamed of themselves and are not happy with the way they look and feel, so they convince others that this is the way to be and it's the rest of the world that's got blinders over their eyes. Nevermind that obese people rarely live to see old age, and even if they do their aged bodies pretty much seclude them to a recliner or bed with a death wish that somebody will eventually put them out of their misery.

Yeah, I get so sick of people I know looking at a perfectly normal "thin" person and accuse them of being unhealthy, bulimic, cokeheads or whatever.

I also recall that as a sophomore, I was 5'4" and weighed about 110 lbs (with a small frame). I ate more than anyone I knew, easily. I engorged myself with enormous amounts of food. Yet I routinely got called into the (big, overweight) counselors office because they were afraid I was anorexic. Please. I was an athlete and thin, but not THAT small. Now when I was 29 and my thyroid went super overactive and I went to about 97 lbs - yeah I looked pretty bad.

[smegma]

I think dairy is probably fine - if you aren't intolerant. Intolerance leads to a "leaky gut" as they call it and puts a lot of stress and toxins into the bloodstream. The problem is that a lot more people are intolerant than realize because it's one of the most common food allergies. It's not until you remove dairy from your diet for a bit and then try and reintroduce it that most people find they have a bad reaction to it.

I think the biggest problem in our diets is sodium. The average American gets so much more than their recommended daily allowance - it's in all the restaurant food, fast food, and canned/frozen fare they buy. During my bad food habit days I figured out I probably consumed 5 times what I should have - and I don't even add it at the table. My bf is a salt addict. It worries me because it is such a huge contributor to heart disease and strokes and obesity :(

[turinturambar]

How is milk good for you? Who says that it's good for you? I know that the Big Dairy says that it is. If there were no dairy left, would there be any negative consequences?

Yes, there would be huge consequences. I'd have no milk for my cereal, no milk for dipping my cookies, and no milk for the many recipes I use. And milk substitutes just don't do the trick in these situations :( The world would end.

I guess my ultimate point being that I feel like our culture has been convinced that dairy consumption is "normal." I would agree if "normal" = "something that lots of people do."

Ya, it's normal. Certainly not abnormal. And don't use the "other animals don't do it" argument. We aren't other animals. Our society drinks milk, it's a big part of our evolution and advancement as humans. There's nothing wrong with NOT drinking milk, but there's certainly nothing wrong with drinking it and it's certainly good for you. Yes, there are other alternatives to Vit D and calcium, but the same can be said about most nutrition.

Are you making the point that people who happen to consume meat tend to have worse nutritional habits? Is meat the problem? Or is a large high-carb salty meal the problem?

It's a bias stat. Eating meat does not mean that meat eaters are likely to have bad diets. But people who have chosen a vegetarian, or especially vegan lifestyle have more than likely done so for nutritional/health goals and therefore are much more likely to have a healthier diet. Meat is the one getting the bad rap, rather than fried foods of all kinds, ice creams, etc etc etc.

[smegma]

If someone goes vegetarian (not "vegan"), they don't consume meat. I've been a happy lacto-ovo vegetarian for years, and haven't consumed meat. I have consumed dairy products, which, for me, make sense, as I need the calcium (I have osteopenia, or, "pre-osteoporosis"). I haven't eaten any form of meat in 30 years. I have, however, consumed eggs, milk, and cheese.

Vegans are usually political, not just "non-meat eaters". Vegans typically have an agenda, which usually aligns with PETA. Vegans do not eat or wear any animal BY-PRODUCTS. Frankly, I'm ok with eating milk and eggs as it doesn't hurt or kill the animal. Vegans get up in arms because milk and eggs "enslave" the animal.

True, but vegetarians are still exposed to the harmful by products because of the hormones in the dairy and eggs - I've heard that milk is an especially large culprit for human consumption of antibiotics and hormones. So to avoid those completely, I guess one must either become a vegan or buy their foods from specialty retailers that provide these products without the harmful byproducts.

I do know vegans that are not political, PETA types. They have seen the horrible conditions that egg chickens are often raised in, or the horrific farms that large dairy cows reside in. Sure they aren't outright slaughtering the animals, but their lives are often severely compromised, raised in filth and surrounded by feces, disease, and dead animals all around them. This has led them to eat anything that could contribute to these lifestyles for the animals - but the ones I know aren't all preachy about it. Just like you for not eating meat, they made a decision based on what they felt was right for themselves.

[smegma]

I am very much in agreement with this. You know how people call hypertension/high BP "the silent killer?" Well, sodium is kinda the "silent" ingredient. There is so much of it, and it's not good.

Trader Joe's has been offering more and more low sodium stuff. You can get a normal-sized jar of organic marinara sauce with almost no sodium for like $3 or a little less. They also have wild pink salmon with no salt added.

One of the best food companies out there that I know of is Eden. They sell cans of beans with no salt added. This should be a staple of a lot of people's diets, ideally. Beans are so underrated. I don't know if Taco Bell is to blame, but I think people think of refried beans too often. Regular beans like kidney, pinto, black, navy, etc...they have tons of fiber, a lot of protein for a plant, and a low-glycemic carb base. One of the best things that you can be eating.

Eden also has cans that contain no BPA. The jury is still out on whether or not BPA is a threat, but I tend to err on the side of caution with stuff like that.

Although I've recently reduced my canned/prepared food intake fairly substantially, the ones that I do purchase I always try the low sodium versions if I can. In fact I just had a can of low sodium Hormel chili (for the beans!) which is pretty tasty. After having lived off of fast food/canned and frozen food for most of my life, I am trying to eat as many fresh meals as possible to enjoy finding the flavor of these foods.

That being said, I'll still cook with a little bit of salt for my chicken or steak or whatever. Not a ton, but at least a little. I think I'm doing okay though for the most part.

[turinturambar]

No; it's really quite easy - buy free-range eggs (vegetarian fed, of course), or raise your own chickens. or buy eggs from those that do (urban chicken farming is HUGE). Also, organic milk is a must - no rBGH or antibiotics.

So it's not even that you need a Whole Foods - just spend a $1 or $2 extra, and you can be a happy lacto-ovo. Horizon Milk, no antibiotics or rGBH, is readily available at Target, for pete's sake.

Vegans oppose even this (which most lacto-ovos love), b/c it's animal products. Vegans refuse any animal products, no matter how happy the animal; even if it's the neighbor's chicken eggs, and they know what the hen has eaten and how it's cared for.

There isn't really such a thing as a vegetarian fed chicken. Free range chickens eat bugs, worms, and anything else they can find. They'll eat a mouse if one passes their way.

[Minaku]

China is pretty dairy-free (being that cows didn't exist there until visitors brought them in) and while it boasts a low obesity rate (poverty and squalor definitely contribute to this statistic) it also suffers from a higher incidence of osteoporosis. The same goes for the other ethnic groups that are lactose intolerant.

I wouldn't advise cutting out all dairy if you lead an omnivorous life. Yogurt's pretty great stuff.

[Lord O' Bones]

Vegans oppose even this (which most lacto-ovos love), b/c it's animal products. Vegans refuse any animal products, no matter how happy the animal; even if it's the neighbor's chicken eggs, and they know what the hen has eaten and how it's cared for.

The vegans I know are perfectly happy eating eggs in this situation. Unless it's been so long that they can't properly digest it.

As always, generalizations are just that.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Smegma,

That's why we buy eggs and milk from our local farmers market. Organically raised and locally produced. Best of both worlds.

[smegma]

The vegans I know are perfectly happy eating eggs in this situation. Unless it's been so long that they can't properly digest it.

As always, generalizations are just that.

Same. Not that I don't think the PETA freaks exist, but I do know that it's not a sweeping truth for all vegans.

On another note, I would love to keep my own chicken. I wouldn't do it at my current house, but maybe my next apartment. We go through quite a few eggs and I would love it if they were readily available and I could guarantee their origin.

I've been trying to buy all hormone free, grass fed and free range meat. Been doing pretty good on this. Also renewing my home delivery of Oberweiss milk, which is supposed to be hormone/by product free and humanely gotten. It's also so delicious. I used to get it but I hated wasting it because it was so expensive.

On another note, I was giving the meat = obesity theory another thought, and I know so many overweight vegetarians and vegans that are significantly overweight. Just like all lifestyles and body types and metabolisms, everyone is different and there's probably no single demon (except as the thread title states, maybe portion size?) that is true of all obese people.

[slim da reaper]

No; it's really quite easy - buy free-range eggs (vegetarian fed, of course), or raise your own chickens. or buy eggs from those that do (urban chicken farming is HUGE). Also, organic milk is a must - no rBGH or antibiotics.

So it's not even that you need a Whole Foods - just spend a $1 or $2 extra, and you can be a happy lacto-ovo. Horizon Milk, no antibiotics or rGBH, is readily available at Target, for pete's sake.

Vegans oppose even this (which most lacto-ovos love), b/c it's animal products. Vegans refuse any animal products, no matter how happy the animal; even if it's the neighbor's chicken eggs, and they know what the hen has eaten and how it's cared for.

You've got a point vegan comes from the smug saying "Beginning and end of being vegetarian, but that's not all vegans, the extremists don't see humans as animals, which is a directing of their problem of self-worth onto one particular species (their own) rather than on all others, same mindset as anyone happy for other animals to be treated in any manner whatsoever (another extremist position.)

[turinturambar]

Uh, yeah, sure, but they mean "intentionally fed", when they say "vegetarian fed". Most chicken feed contains parts of other chickens. I audited a chicken rendering facility.

It smelled like nothing holy; the people who worked there said it "smelled like money". I dry heaved in my car at 1/4 of a mile away, the smell was so strong. The smell was the boiling blood and singed feathers of hundreds of thousands of chickens, plus the sludge lagoon that had the by-products of non-fat (liquid/water) waste by-product. That got sprayed on nearby fields as soon as it was "safe".

All the above shit, except for the stuff that gets sprayed onto fields, gets made into chicken feed for ordinary (not "vegetarian fed") chickens, or into dog/cat food, for the lower-grade stuff.

We'd send out first-year auditors to do the measurements for the liquid fat silos. I'm sure that smelled pretty; since I was 1/4 mile away (safe at the corporate office, pictures of the owner hugging Republican presidents + first ladies by the White House Christmas Tree on the walls) and dry-heaving, I can only imagine what up close and personal smelled like, dipping a huge dipstick into tons of liquid chicken fat.

Yes, I know a lot about the life cycle of a factory chicken (the chickens that fed this plant were carcasses from large chicken farms/processors, one of which started with a "T"). In fact, there is a specific distance that a chicken carcass can be carted for rendering without decomposing. (Which is why these places are located at certain distances from each other).

I know a fair bit about the life/death cycle of a factory chicken due to auditing the damn numbers. Probably a more in-depth look than any number of ardent hippie chicken-loving vegans have ever had (because they wouldn't be allowed to get close).

I also know about chickens in "free range" states - it may not be true "free range", but it's a hell of a lot better than living in a cage where you can't turn around without bumping into your de-beaked neighbor.

Yes, due to auditing agricultural concerns, I know a lot about chickens.

I don't know as you about factory farms, but I did do the Asher Farms case for Audit class and I went over a lot of numbers and read up a lot on what went on. And ya to tell you the truth it's quite disgusting. Hasn't kept me from eating such chicken though as at this point in my life I can't really afford the good stuff, but believe me when I'm finally completely done and working for a good firm I'll definitely be getting the good stuff. I use to eat the stuff from Grandma's farm, her chickens were truly free range. No cages at all, you had to catch them on the farm and finding eggs was like an easter egg hunt every damn time. Of course there were roosts where the chickens generally went to lay their eggs, but these were not always utilized. We had problems with coyotes and foxes eating the chickens from time to time, but generally these were rare occurrences because they knew the risk they were taking to eat the chickens. Anyway, yes it was all very tasty and I wish Grandma hadn't retired the farm.

[slim da reaper]

I know a fair bit about the life/death cycle of a factory chicken due to auditing the damn numbers. Probably a more in-depth look than any number of ardent hippie chicken-loving vegans have ever had (because they wouldn't be allowed to get close).

Well anyone can get a job and use turkeys as baseball practice, these are the lowest paid jobs they will take anyone. Anyone.

Animal welfare

On 7 September 2006, two contract workers were convicted of animal cruelty after being covertly filmed by a member of staff from Hillside Animal Sanctuary, playing 'baseball' with live turkeys. The two men were sentenced to a 200-hour community service which was later criticised as being 'derisory' by some animal welfare organisations.[14][18] Palmer's and Allan's defence lawyer, Simon Nicholls, stated that their actions were part of a ‘culture’ at the Norfolk plant and, describing the conditions in the unit as "appalling", said: "You can see why people move to an organic, more open type of farming." [19] An RSPCA inspector said it was the worst case of cruelty to farm animals of which he had heard [20] A vet, after seeing the footage, said it was the ‘most hideous and blatant’ abuse he had seen in 25 years.[21]

Source

I find labelling everyone who is vegan an extremist view point Chataya. Many humans view other animals as their property whiuch means they are their slaves, unless you want to go the route that other animals are machines: so pigs, sheep, horses to name the most like us are all machines?