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Lord Varys

Dragon stuff

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Thanks Queensmoot.

So we could theoretically expect either Rhaegal or Viserion growing girl parts (Drogon no doubt being too much macho for that)? ;)

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It is frightening how easily and quickly the conversation shifts here and how many people just have their comments and questions dismissed.

What is this thread even about anymore?

Dragons. What's your problem, exactly?

Voodooqueen, I think isogamy refers to merely the gametes being "undecided", but I'm not entirely certain either (it's 1:24 AM right now...).

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Dragons. What's your problem, exactly?

Voodooqueen, I think isogamy refers to merely the gametes being "undecided", but I'm not entirely certain either (it's 1:24 AM right now...).

I wasn't too sure either-it's like most species reproduce sexually or are hermaphrodites or clone themselves... Dragons are unlike anything in nature.

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We don't know how Valyrian steel is made, what if one needs dragons? At the very least their presence would make spells more effective but maybe they where more directly involved.

Perhaps Valyrian steel is steel forged with obsidian, aka dragonglass, using dragons fire. If Valyrian steel swords where a mix of steel and obsidian it would explain why they are so sharp, light, and why they can kill the others. Or maybe they used dragons blood, if kings blood has power then dragons blood must be gold.

It would be another reason why Valyrian steel swords are so rare, its hard to control a dragon and get them to do whatever it is they are needed to do to forge the swords.

Maybe. But it seems to me that both Maesters Cressen and Marwyn each have a link of valyrian steel in their Maester's chains and my understanding was that the Maester's must forge their own chains. So maybe one can also make valryian steel by other means than with a dragon (or maybe they had valyrian steel--created using a dragon as you surmise-- and forged it into a link).

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It is frightening how easily and quickly the conversation shifts here and how many people just have their comments and questions dismissed.

What is this thread even about anymore?

This thread is for discussing anything about dragons.

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Maybe. But it seems to me that both Maesters Cressen and Marwyn each have a link of valyrian steel in their Maester's chains and my understanding was that the Maester's must forge their own chains. So maybe one can also make valryian steel by other means than with a dragon (or maybe they had valyrian steel--created using a dragon as you surmise-- and forged it into a link).

Well, as shown in the case of Ice being reforged to Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, Valyrian steel can be melted down and reforged. However, it can not be made "fresh". The Citadel must have at least a small stock of it for acolytes to forge chain links out of. If that should be used up, however, there will be no more links of Valyrian steel (except if a maester's chain is retunred to the Citadel upon his death, then those of Valyrian steel, should he possess one, can be melted dow and reforged).

In making Valyrian steel anew, a connection to dragons seems believable enough to me (what with the dragons being pretty much the "power source" of old Valyria).

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We do know that GRRM likey tourney very much. We also do know that the stock of Targaryen dragons increased during the time of their early reign (Aegon only had three, Jaehaerys I took five dragons with him to Winterfell, so he had at least as much, or even more - and this visit could even have taken place after Balerion's death), until most of them died during the Dance of Dragons.

So what did the Targaryens do with their dragons during peace time (and the times were peaceful during the 70 years of Jaehaerys and Viserys)? Of course, there should/could have been some kind of tourney involving dragons. Such things could have been really fun, especially as huge spectacles which showed the whole Realm splendor and power of their ruling dynasty. Unfortunately no one ever talked about them. At least until now. One should really dig into the possibility of such things ;-).

And then we also want a dragon family tree. It started with Aegon's dragons, and only went on for six generations (if we count Aegon's III generation a generation were dragons were born), so in total it's unlikely that there were more then 20 grown Targaryen dragons.

I doubt that they were capable of being bred with the same prodigious rate as horses - otherwise there would have been dragons everywhere.

Its my feeling that the dragons gave birth to about the same number of offspring as their human warg/ Targaryen family.

There seems to be a link between beast and man - ie. the 5+1 Direwolf cubs for the 5+1 Ned kids.

So was it a coincidence that we had 3 Dragons for King Aegon I + sisters?

Mayhaps the Targaryen mental illness had a part in the demise of the Dragons.

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So they would lay their own egg and then inseminate it? That's kind of gross, actually.

Not if you're a Dragon :D

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Put it in spoiler tags? ;)

I can see a link between the number of dragons and riders, as Lyvyathan points out. I don't think warging is involved, since - at least until now - this has been shown as somethign connected to the old gods, but there might well be some kind of predestination to form a bond with a dragon. As it seems, the Targaryens value prophecy very highly. Belief in destiny etc would be strengthened by people being "born to ride a specific dragon".

(I hope this made sense. :))

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I can see a link between the number of dragons and riders, as Lyvyathan points out. I don't think warging is involved, since - at least until now - this has been shown as somethign connected to the old gods, but there might well be some kind of predestination to form a bond with a dragon. As it seems, the Targaryens value prophecy very highly. Belief in destiny etc would be strengthened by people being "born to ride a specific dragon".

(I hope this made sense. :))

(ADWD)

That is certainly supported by Dany's conversation with poor Quentin.

I just wonder if all the dragon riders are Targaryens, or Valyrian, or just anybody. I wish that

(AFFC)

Aemon had lived longer! He probably knew a lot more about dragons than he was able to tell anyone.

I would really like a Dragon family tree complete with riders!! That would be enlightening.

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Put it in spoiler tags? ;)

I can see a link between the number of dragons and riders, as Lyvyathan points out. I don't think warging is involved, since - at least until now - this has been shown as somethign connected to the old gods, but there might well be some kind of predestination to form a bond with a dragon. As it seems, the Targaryens value prophecy very highly. Belief in destiny etc would be strengthened by people being "born to ride a specific dragon".

(I hope this made sense. :))

Why not? Wouldn't some form of warging would be necessary to control the dragons? - A Dragon is not an elephant, horse, dolphin, heck its even more fierce than the Crocodile or any known predator. What would prevent a massive flying reptile that shoots out flames and kills whole armies from getting sick of the human gnat riding on its back - and killing said rider.

"F-this Aegom, I'm sick of you riding my back and getting me to fly around, who the heck are ya to tell me what to do? I want to go eat some cows now" - and promptly throws him to the ground.

"A bond" would necessarily mean some form of warging imho - at least in relation to said dragon.

You can have belief in destiny all you want - but does the freaking monster of a Dragon know it or even care?

Mayhaps you might bring up Killer-whales... yeah, then maybe ... :D

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:lol: ...I have so many come backs racing through my mind right now but I do not think it would be proper ;)

Haha, imagine telling a dragon to go bleep himself. It would probably reply if it could, I already did (before OMGWTFBBQ. ing said offender.

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Haha, imagine telling a dragon to go bleep himself. It would probably reply if it could, I already did (before OMGWTFBBQ. ing said offender.

OMGWTFBBQ is now the greatest acronym ever.

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Yeah well, I guess it's pretty much call it as you like. That predestination thing would have to be recognised and accepted by the dragon as well, or else

we have to thank Quentyn for the demonstration of what happens when one firmly believes in destiny and the other believes in said BBQ

.

I never said that the bond between dragon and rider wouldn't be something similar to warging. I just expect it to work a bit different (or I will be disappointed if it is). Also, Dany has show no signs of the "classic Northern warging" (sounds like an Olympic discipline :D) yet, which makes me believe it's something different. But yeah, that bond definitely has to work both ways, or else one might as well bring a bottle of ketchup to the dragon pit.

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As to the dragon gender topic... maybe the rider has something to do with it. We know that a rider may only mount one dragon, but as to whether that applies the other way around, one rider per dragon, we don't know. Since the lifespan of a dragon eclipses that of our own, it leaves the chance for a dragon to find another rider if it chose to... but why would it want to submit to another human after already having a "master or rider" for several years...

This leads me to believe that maybe a dragon and rider pair will mimic each other in behaviors and characteristics. Perhaps making Dany's big n bad drogo a girl? (if it wanted to at least).

Then again, Since dragonlore has mostly been about unfathomable, mythical beasts... maybe its due to something we can't put a finger on.

Or maybe its just that it wasn't imperative for where GRRM was taking the story and that's why we don't know :(

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