Bakker XII: Spoilers for PON, TJE, and WLW

[Old Nan]

Are the little ones that look like this not mass market?

Wow, they really don't know how to market Bakker if that's the quote they're using to sell this series.

[Jussi]

I imagine that his US sales, with a lack of paperbacks (or did that get sorted out in the end, I forget?) and coming from a small publisher, are much less impressive.

From the US publisher's catalog:

• R. Scott Bakker’s previous books with Overlook have sold over 125,000 copies

http://booksellers.penguin.com/static/pdf/viking-winter11.pdf

[Cantabile]

125,000? That's pretty good for such a niche market, and higher than I expected. Any numbers on his sales in other countries? I'm curious what the total number altogether is.

[pat5150]

Spread over 4 different books, that's not a very high number: About 30,000 units per book. That's why Bakker needs a mass market paperback edition...

Patrick

[Cantabile]

Bakker should ask advice from the bestselling author in the world: Robert Stanek.

[lokisnow]

he should see if he can get overlook to license the US MMPB rights to Tor or Bantam and get a pull quote from GRRM and launch the four books as MMPBs to coincide with the release of ASOIAF's HBO series. a quote like "The sickest, most kick-ass, fantasy series I've ever read!" would be a lot better than "A class act!"

While he's at it, have them retroactively edit the books so that all names more than three syllables and with any funny furrin characters like umlauts are changed to two-three syllable names that don't twist the brain into funny shapes and exasperate the eyes when readers new to bakker first see them. He's already got the nicknames everyone uses because no one other than Bakker can spell the full names, much less type the funky characters.

or he should just be consistent and call simply named things like the Consult, the Konyaktleryxultors. "Konyaktleryxultors" is not as concise as "The Consult", but is more consistent with the naming conventions otherwise used in the novels.

It's ironic that some things have readable names--The Mandate, The Consult, The Non-Men--but most things and virtually all characters in the series have names that openly assault the conventions of naming with naked hostility. At the very least Bakker could start going easier on new readers if he wants to gain ground and success.

[Cantabile]

he should see if he can get overlook to license the US MMPB rights to Tor or Bantam and get a pull quote from GRRM and launch the four books as MMPBs to coincide with the release of ASOIAF's HBO series. a quote like "The sickest, most kick-ass, fantasy series I've ever read!" would be a lot better than "A class act!"

Has GRRM even read the series?

[Galactus]

I must confess that "The Consult" is pretty much the least impressive name for a villainous organization ever.

What's next, the Dread Lord Accountant?

[Spring Bass]

I must confess that "The Consult" is pretty much the least impressive name for a villainous organization ever.

What's next, the Dread Lord Accountant?

I disagree. "The Consult" is straight-forward and reasonably memorable if you're reading the series, much in the way that the "No-God" or "Apocalypse" is. I think it would have much less impact if it was something like "The Seventeenth League of Golgotterah".

Now that it's been pointed out, though, it does seem kind of odd that the names for all the antagonists seem pretty simplified. "No-God", "Consult", "Aurax", "Aurang" - "Inchoroi" is a bit longer, but seems fairly phonetic.

[Borque]

I agree on "The Consult" being a good name for the villains. I think it sounds sinister.

Now that it's been pointed out, though, it does seem kind of odd that the names for all the antagonists seem pretty simplified. "No-God", "Consult", "Aurax", "Aurang" - "Inchoroi" is a bit longer, but seems fairly phonetic.

Shaeönanra, Grandmaster of the School of Mangaecca, would be the obvious exception.

But then again, he got the - relatively - simple name Shauriatas after hanging out with the bad guys for a while. You might be on to something here.

[Werthead]

Has GRRM even read the series?

Yes. When he and Bakker did a joint convention appearance in Spain a couple of years back, GRRM was fairly gushing-over with praise for it.

[Happy Ent]

"Aurax", "Aurang" - "Inchoroi" is a bit longer, but seems fairly phonetic.

Unlike you, I would like more phonetic information in Bakker's spellings. I have no idea if, say, Aurang starts with the same vowel as "orange" or "Austria", or if he should be pronounced with a diphtong (I say /'aʊrʌŋ/ or something like that), just like I (possibly wrongly) pronounce Tolkien's Aulë.

And the -x- in Aurax, what does that do? (I say /'aʊrʌks/).

And the -ch-? As in inch? Or as in choir?

On the other hand, Shaeönanra is perfectly unambiguous

[Shryke]

I think Bakkers names look suitably not-pseudo-English to got with the distinctly not pseudo-imaginary-medieval-England-period-where-all-generic-fantasy-is-set setting it takes place in.

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

Unlike you, I would like more phonetic information in Bakker's spellings. I have no idea if, say, Aurang starts with the same vowel as "orange" or "Austria", or if he should be pronounced with a diphtong (I say /'aʊrʌŋ/ or something like that), just like I (possibly wrongly) pronounce Tolkien's Aulë.

And the -x- in Aurax, what does that do? (I say /'aʊrʌks/).

And the -ch-? As in inch? Or as in choir?

On the other hand, Shaeönanra is perfectly unambiguous

Well, I tend to say 'au:raks' (three syllables), but I am sure it is not how Scott imagined it. (Cersei also is three syllables for me, since my native language doesn't really use diphtongs.) Shaeönanra OTOH is quite unambiguous. "Ch", I am sure,is meant to be pronounced as "k", since Achamian is called Akka, not Akha.

I think Bakkers names look suitably not-pseudo-English to got with the distinctly not pseudo-imaginary-medieval-England-period-where-all-generic-fantasy-is-set setting it takes place in.

Yes, this. I must add language was one of the biggest selling points of PoN for me. If you removed it, other elements of deep worldbuilding (like glossary in TTT), and philosophy, the series would probably sell better, but it would cease to be special.

[sologdin]

not as concise as "The Consult", but is more consistent with the naming conventions otherwise used in the novels.

heh. reminds me of the fantasy novelist's exam:

38. Do you see nothing wrong with having two characters from the same small isolated village being named "Tim Umber" and "Belthusalanthalus al'Grinsok"?

[Happy Ent]

Well, I tend to say 'au:raks' (three syllables), but I am sure it is not how Scott imagined it. (Cersei also is three syllables for me, since my native language doesn't really use diphtongs.)

Three syllable Aurang would be Aürang, so I think we can rule that out.

Out of curiosity, what is your native language?

[Gabriele]

no one other than Bakker can spell the full names, much less type the funky characters.

That's not true; I can reproduce those funky characters with a German keyboard just fine. After all, German has its share of fünký chäräctêrs. :D

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

Three syllable Aurang would be Aürang, so I think we can rule that out.

Yeah, you are right.

Out of curiosity, what is your native language?

Polish, but in this case my pronunciation is probably influenced by Church Latin (different from modern reconstructed pronunciation), because this is how those names look for me. "Au" would be one syllable in modern Polish, but "ei" still is definitively two.

[Amun]

Unless indicated otherwise, I usually pronounce fantasy names with a Latin pronunciation, unless it looks like an alternate spelling of an English name like many of GRRM's characters. I don't know why, I just do. So that's how I would tend to pronounce the names in Bakker's series. Then I read this in The Judging Eye:

upon the high wall the husbands slept,

while 'round the hearth their women wept,

and fugitives murmured tales of woe,

of greater cities lost to Mog-Pharau ...

It's found at the opening of the first chapter after the prologue. There appears to be a rhyme scheme, and that gives "au" a more French pronunciation, I guess. So who knows...

[Spring Bass]

I usually pronounce the "Au-" in "Aurax" and "Aurang" as "Arrrr".

The one that actually bugs me the most, though, is in one of the simple names: "Kellhus". The "h" in there throws me off, so that it's "Kell-Hus" instead of "Kell-us". It's like that annoying stop in that "Don't stop. Thinking about Tomorrow" song.