Ned Starks real bastard and Jon Snow's twin

[Summerqueen]

This is the troublesome bit. I can't recall any discussion of his age whatsoever. All we know is that Arriane thinks he's super hot, and therefore some people think he's at least as old as she is, but this is hardly evidence in my opinion.

Yeah, can only go with my gut. Arianne thinks of him as a man, cruel and hard. We know what sort she goes for. Hard to imagine he's rather young. He's also decribed as clean-shaven, which suggests to me that he has a full compliment of facial hair to wrangle, so not early teens at least, maybe not even early twenties, but I guess I'm only going on high school and college experiences of my own, there.

[TyrionFan82]

Remember when he said that Joffrey Baratheon was the just and true heir to Robert's throne, and that he himself was an evil traitor who had conspired to defile Robert's legacy and murder the new King, his siblings, and their mother? Remember that time when he said that he would write down Robert's will exactly as it was dictated, and then he decided to change it all? He had a good reason for each of these things, but they were definitely intentional lies.

But that's not really the point here. I like your theory; it's a little convoluted, but it does sort of make a nice counterpoint to the usual Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon theories. I just need some more clarification because I'm not too sure if I understand the details:

Is Darkstar Ashara Dayne's child with Eddard? If so, then who are each of the twins that Lyanna had and what happened to them? I think one of them is Jon Snow, right? But then who is the other. You mentioned 3 kids but I can only account for 2.

This is the part I'm confused about. HH, can you clarify this? I really liked Darkstar and can't wait to see more of him.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

This is the part I'm confused about. HH, can you clarify this? I really liked Darkstar and can't wait to see more of him.

I think when he originally posted this, he was saying the silver haired twin had not been introduced. In ADWD aegon appears who fits the bill. If you consider that there are separate theory that Lemore is actually Ashara it fits pretty well. I'm not convinced though =)

[Nation70]

I actually think Darkstar is Brandon and Ashara's. Even the name darkstar could be a combo of Dayne-Stark.

Despite all the theories going on out there of R + L = J, I think Jon is actually Ned's. That's why he has the warging abilities that his half siblings have. If warging ability is so rare, why would both Ned and Lyanna's kids have the gift. I think they get it from Ned.

The kicker is the R + L = Aegon. That was Ned's broken promise he lamented about in the black cells. He didn't take care of her child. He shipped the baby off to the free cities to be taken care of by Targ. loyalists. He was already bringing Jon home, he couldn't bring another bastard home and keep his "honor", especially one that looked so much like a Targ.

[Dr. Pepper]

Despite all the theories going on out there of R + L = J, I think Jon is actually Ned's. That's why he has the warging abilities that his half siblings have. If warging ability is so rare, why would both Ned and Lyanna's kids have the gift. I think they get it from Ned.

Ned and Lyanna both have the same genes. Wargs are so rare and yet an entire generation of Starks possess(ed) the gift. It's an anomaly. There really is no reason to think that Ned had super special genes compared to Lyanna.

[ishmael]

Ashara's child is born during the war sometime. If she got pregnant at Harrenhal, either from her dishonor or her turning to a Stark, the child would be roughly Elia's Aegon's age, about a year and some months older than Lyanna's child. However, Lyanna's child is about a year to a year and a half younger than Aegon (ostensibly, his birth is the motive for Rhaegar to sire a child on Lyanna). Any child Lyanna had would not be a credible substitute for Aegon. The substitute Aegon would have to come from Ashara in such a scenario.

If Ashara got pregnant after Harrenhal, her child could be the same age as Lyanna's child. However, there is only a two year window for this child to be born, making him/her at most 18. Darkstar seems older.

This is slightly inaccurate, unless GRRM has changed his timeline in the last deacade or so. There was 1-2 years from Harrenhall to the start of the war. From the start of the war to the sack of KL is about a year, that gives us 2-3 years from Harrenhal to the sack of KL. Jon was born around the time of the sack. I would guess slightly after the sack as Ned had to ride to SE, find out where Lyanna was, and then ride to the ToJ after picking his elite commando squad. I'm only guessing here, but I doubt Lyanna lingered fro months following the birth. Lack of true medical care and the conditions that would have had an infection running rampant would have caused her death fairly quickly. I don't think she would have lingered for weeks even.

Anyway, back to the point: for Ashara's child to be the same age as Lyanna's, Ashara would have had to have gotten pregnant after the war started. Her getting pregnant anytime before the war would have resulted in a child a few months older than Jon with an upper limit of almost 3 years old (her getting preggers at Harrenhall). Jon was 15 at the start of the series, so Ashara's child could be as old as 18 at the start. If DS is Ashara's, by the the time we see him in the series he could easily be in the 20 y/o range.

The OPs theory is like so many other theories: there is not one solid piece of evidence that proves or disproves the theory. It all comes down to how we each interpret the various pieces of information presented in the text. For example, many believe that Ned and Ashara had some type of relationship and many do not. It is implied through various sources that they did, but only one character actual outright states it (Eddric Dayne). Those who don't believe in the relationship, lump this in with the rumors other character are perpetuating. Those who do believe they had a relationship can't get a good answer to why the Daynes are continuing to "spread" the rumor that Ned and Ashara were in love within their family if it is a lie.

The OPs theory is congruent many of the known and agreed upon facts, but also provides a seamless way for other proposed theories to be folded in along with the known facts. This theory is rather intriguing as it, on the surface, has the potential to tie together several plot lines, both past and present, and answer many readers questions about the importance of DS.

Maybe DS just gives off the vibe, that he is older than he actually is.

[Ygrain]

If I'm not mistaken, the current timeline is approximately two years between Harrenhall (Jaime 15) and Sack (Jaime 17), with about a year between the tourney and Lyanna's supposed kidnapping. Therefore, the theory that Ned's intentions to marry an already pregnant Ashara were thwarted by Lyanna's kidnapping/absconding really doesn't fit. Also, how and when would he get to Ashara when he was being fostered at the Vale and she was at Starfall or KL? And why would he be too shy to ask her for a dance if he had already done way more?

I actually think Darkstar is Brandon and Ashara's. Even the name darkstar could be a combo of Dayne-Stark.

Despite all the theories going on out there of R + L = J, I think Jon is actually Ned's. That's why he has the warging abilities that his half siblings have. If warging ability is so rare, why would both Ned and Lyanna's kids have the gift. I think they get it from Ned.

The kicker is the R + L = Aegon. That was Ned's broken promise he lamented about in the black cells. He didn't take care of her child. He shipped the baby off to the free cities to be taken care of by Targ. loyalists. He was already bringing Jon home, he couldn't bring another bastard home and keep his "honor", especially one that looked so much like a Targ.

Doesn't explain the price he paid for the promises he kept and the lies he was living for fourteen years. And, then there is the fundamental question: what's so damned secret about Jon's mother, if not R+L?

Also, there are mentions of Brandon and Lyanna being exceptionally good riders, which could be a hint at unconscious warging abilities,

[Swordsaint]

I like your theory considering a 23 year old, and a 20 year old are peers. Jon turned 15 almost immediately after reaching the Wall. Roughly two years have gone by at the point where Darkstar enters the story. Even if I'm wrong it would still make Darkstar 19 (still a peer). I'm still not sure I'd buy your theory, but I certainly like it. Specially considering that GRRM may have purposely left his age out.

[Nation70]

Based on GRRM's interview he just gave, where he stated Brandon could have had bastard's, I'm going to stick with Darkstar being Brandon and Ashara's child. Hell, even his catchphrase, "i'm of the night" could be construed to be the Night King, a direct, if not ancient, descendant of Brandon's.

We clearly don't know enough about him yet, but he has a role yet to play. He can't be the most dangerous man in Dorne for no reason.

[nepaliman_7]

With Aegon being introduced, this might actually be true.

[IDontDrinkwater]

I actually really like this theory or at least something similar. My fantasy is Ned in the Tower of Joy surrounded by a bunch of screaming babies, crying along with them because he can't figure out which baby is which. Although I think that Darkstar could also be the real Aegon (if the current one isn't), with the black in his hair representing Dorne.

[Lana]

Two of my favorite crackpot theories in one thread!

Ok, I can't say I have 100% faith but I love entertaining the idea that Darkstar is the real Aegon:

• Doran describes him as the most dangerous man in Dorne ... because revealing his identity would shake up the whole game
  
• Has silver (Targaryen) hair with a streak of black (Martell)
  
• Has dark purple eyes, similar to Rhaegar, and in contrast to Young Griff who has lighter purple eyes
  
• Described by Arianne as the most beautiful man in Dorne, reminiscent of the oft-spoken unparalleled beauty of the Targaryens. She even says their children would be as beautiful as Dragonlords
  
• He's hiding out as a Dayne because they have similar coloring to Targaryens and because Ashara and Arthur were good friends to Elia and Rhaegar
  
• Wanted to harm Myrcella Lannister-Baratheon, daughter of the usurpers
  
• Described as cruel; eyes described as angry ... because he's pissed off that he has to conceal his identity and birthright (until Doran is ready to act on his long con) while the usurpers have prospered for 18 years
  
• Doran must have something up his sleeve other than Viserys-Arianne and Dany-Quentyn marriages (Plans B and C) ... because after that whole mysterious vengeance talk with Arianne, I expect more than these marriages!
  
• Because otherwise the Darkstar character has no point!!
  

Most common argument: Darkstar feels like he's Arianne's age, i.e. too old to be Aegon.

Counterpoint: besides that being a completely subjective interpretation, 23 and 18/19-year olds can still be described as peers, especially since 1) Boys are considered men at age 16 in Westeros 2) Dorne is a more liberal place

Best alternative: Darkstar = Brandon + Ashara (or he's really a minor Dayne) but what's the point?

As for R + L = YG, I have little faith in that one but I would love for it to be true :D! In this case, Septa Lemore is Ashara who faked death so she could run away with the heir (and real Aegon is really dead). Pure crackpottery goodness!

[all_Freys_must_die]

Two of my favorite crackpot theories in one thread!

Ok, I can't say I have 100% faith but I love entertaining the idea that Darkstar is the real Aegon:

• Doran describes him as the most dangerous man in Dorne ... because revealing his identity would shake up the whole game
  
• Has silver (Targaryen) hair with a streak of black (Martell)
  
• Has dark purple eyes, similar to Rhaegar, and in contrast to Young Griff who has lighter purple eyes
  
• Described by Arianne as the most beautiful man in Dorne, reminiscent of the oft-spoken unparalleled beauty of the Targaryens. She even says their children would be as beautiful as Dragonlords
  
• He's hiding out as a Dayne because they have similar coloring to Targaryens and because Ashara and Arthur were good friends to Elia and Rhaegar
  
• Wanted to harm Myrcella Lannister-Baratheon, daughter of the usurpers
  
• Described as cruel; eyes described as angry ... because he's pissed off that he has to conceal his identity and birthright (until Doran is ready to act on his long con) while the usurpers have prospered for 18 years
  
• Doran must have something up his sleeve other than Viserys-Arianne and Dany-Quentyn marriages (Plans B and C) ... because after that whole mysterious vengeance talk with Arianne, I expect more than these marriages!
  
• Because otherwise the Darkstar character has no point!!
  

Most common argument: Darkstar feels like he's Arianne's age, i.e. too old to be Aegon.

Counterpoint: besides that being a completely subjective interpretation, 23 and 18/19-year olds can still be described as peers, especially since 1) Boys are considered men at age 16 in Westeros 2) Dorne is a more liberal place

Best alternative: Darkstar = Brandon + Ashara (or he's really a minor Dayne) but what's the point?

I like this, a lot. There has to be some great reveal involving Darkstar. No way he's just a red herring. Never thought of the Brandon + Ashara = DS line before but it has its merits. If he can get legitimised does that mean he's heir to Winterfell? lol

[Prince of the Green]

Despite all the theories going on out there of R + L = J, I think Jon is actually Ned's. That's why he has the warging abilities that his half siblings have. If warging ability is so rare, why would both Ned and Lyanna's kids have the gift. I think they get it from Ned.

In my opinion, the Starks have all had some semblance of warging since their beginning. They are definitely much different than the other Northern families, and would somewhat explain the Bolton's flaying of and subsequent display of Stark skins in that underground chamber of theirs (if this plotline is to be believed); no Bolton has ever been a warg (at least this is what I believe) and therefore, to try and force this strange phenomenon upon their kin, they wear a Stark skin as a cloak in mock and envy of the people they have been jealous of for so long.

Also, it explains the statements Ned made about Brandon and Lyanna, 'having the wolf blood.' Jojen makes a comment to Bran in the first Bran chapter of a Storm of Swords, referring to Bran's lengthy spells of slipping into Summer's skin as being lost to his direwolf, to his beast. It'd make sense, considering the personalities of these two characters (Brandon and Lyanna), that their continual warging would have very real consequences.

[Gerold_Hightower]

I like the theory. But unfortunately John doesn't seem to be the same age with Darkstar.

Two of my favorite crackpot theories in one thread!

Ok, I can't say I have 100% faith but I love entertaining the idea that Darkstar is the real Aegon:

• Doran describes him as the most dangerous man in Dorne ... because revealing his identity would shake up the whole game
  
• Has silver (Targaryen) hair with a streak of black (Martell)
  
• Has dark purple eyes, similar to Rhaegar, and in contrast to Young Griff who has lighter purple eyes
  
• Described by Arianne as the most beautiful man in Dorne, reminiscent of the oft-spoken unparalleled beauty of the Targaryens. She even says their children would be as beautiful as Dragonlords
  
• He's hiding out as a Dayne because they have similar coloring to Targaryens and because Ashara and Arthur were good friends to Elia and Rhaegar
  
• Wanted to harm Myrcella Lannister-Baratheon, daughter of the usurpers
  
• Described as cruel; eyes described as angry ... because he's pissed off that he has to conceal his identity and birthright (until Doran is ready to act on his long con) while the usurpers have prospered for 18 years
  
• Doran must have something up his sleeve other than Viserys-Arianne and Dany-Quentyn marriages (Plans B and C) ... because after that whole mysterious vengeance talk with Arianne, I expect more than these marriages!
  
• Because otherwise the Darkstar character has no point!!
  

Most common argument: Darkstar feels like he's Arianne's age, i.e. too old to be Aegon.

Counterpoint: besides that being a completely subjective interpretation, 23 and 18/19-year olds can still be described as peers, especially since 1) Boys are considered men at age 16 in Westeros 2) Dorne is a more liberal place

Best alternative: Darkstar = Brandon + Ashara (or he's really a minor Dayne) but what's the point?

As for R + L = YG, I have little faith in that one but I would love for it to be true :D! In this case, Septa Lemore is Ashara who faked death so she could run away with the heir (and real Aegon is really dead). Pure crackpottery goodness!

We are introduced to a guy named Aegon, only to find out that he is fake later? I also like the theory, but something doesn't add up.

[Lana]

We are introduced to a guy named Aegon, only to find out that he is fake later? I also like the theory, but something doesn't add up.

Are you talking about Young Griff? In that case, there is a solid argument to be made that YG is indeed fake (Illyrio's son and/or a Blackfyre). Proponents of this theory believe that an Aegon pretender has been foreshadowed since Dany's HOTU vision. I subscribe to the Blackfyre theory myself but it would be an interesting additional twist if the real Aegon were still alive in the form of Darkstar.

[Gerold_Hightower]

Are you talking about Young Griff? In that case, there is a solid argument to be made that YG is indeed fake (Illyrio's son and/or a Blackfyre). Proponents of this theory believe that an Aegon pretender has been foreshadowed since Dany's HOTU vision. I subscribe to the Blackfyre theory myself but it would be an interesting additional twist if the real Aegon were still alive in the form of Darkstar.

Now I like it even better. :)

[siknes]

IIRC, Gerold Dayne is from a lesser branch--High Hermitage I think. Which would, I believe remove the possibility that Ashara Dayne is his mother. Not to mention, wouldn't he have taken his father's name? Speaking of which, who is Edric Dayne's papa?

That is the thing, the ruse is that Ashara lost a girl(According to Selmy) and threw herself off a tower. It would have been interesting if Young Griff had decided to go to Dany. (Selmy staring at a woman seemed to loss his color, like he eyed a ghost. A ghost he loved.)

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Darkstar is in his 20's, Jon is 16

how can they be twins?

Darkstar is a secret Targaryen or Blackfyre, but he's not sibling to Jon and Jon's father is Rhaegar

[ginaflynn]

Dany and John are the real twins. Ned took or had someone else take Dany to Dragonstone, who better to hide Dany out with, her grandmother, not knowing the queen would die giving birth, maybe the baby she gave birth to died. Ipersonaly dont believe that Dany is the mad Kings daughter , she has to big of a role to play.... Dany will probably be able to warg in the next two books. Thats the type of twist grrm would pull.