NFL vol. 5

[Rockroi]

Okay, old thread locked. Let's continue:

Can I call you a boob since you clearly have no idea what the rule is? The ref called it correctly as going by the NFL rules. It looked like the Dolphins player could and would get control of the ball before the mad rush set in but when the scrum happened he didn't quite have it yet. In order for a turnover to happen on a replay on a challenge the possession must be 100% absolutely clear. It wasn't. So it was actually a pretty easy call as the Ref could just stick to the rules.

I know exactly what the rule is. My problem is that the ref's blew the call by trying to rely on Instant Replay after they originally blew the call when all they had to do was look up and see a Dolphin with the ball.

The ref's started off screwing up by calling the play a TD- this is sort of understandable; the game moves too fast. Fine. But they compounded the problem by, apparently, not paying attention when there was a scrum for the ball. The ref's should have treated the ball as if it were live EVEN THOUGH there was a call on the field of a TD. That way, if IR reversed it (which seemed likely given the fact that the ball was lose on the ground) you could make a good case about who came up with the ball once the pile was sorted out. I mean, EVERY fumble recovery has bodies flying everywhere and mass chaos etc. You NEVER know who actually came up with the ball; you only know who had it last.

Which brings me to how the fumble stared and ended- with a Miami player CLEARLY grabbing the ball after holding in his hand and then with a Dolphin coming up with the ball. If the Dolphin is on the ground, ball in hand, and a Stealer touches him- down by contact, the play is over; Dolphins ball. But no. The "play" continued (remember, the play was ruled, ultimately, a fumble, so even though it was incorrectly called a TD, the ball was fumbled and Miami had it first).

And when the play ended, a Miami player had the ball. Do you really need to be CSI- Miami to figure this out? When did the Steelers recover the ball? When was the ball NOT in the possession of the Dolphins? And I don't even like the Dolphins!

Finally, I loved that the press went to Big Ben after the play to get his take; he claimed the ref's were calling TD the whole time. Now THERE is a credible source.

[Maithanet]

Watching the end of the Vikings Packers game, I couldn't help but wonder, how the hell did that ref call Percy Harvin in at the end of the game? His first foot was barely out, and his second foot was completely, without any question out. And yet the ref, standing two yards away, missed this call. What was he looking at? Was he just caught up in the moment of Favre slingin it around? If so, I understand, we've all been there.

The Redskins once again got lucky. Twice it really looked like the Bears should have gone up 21-10, and if they had, I don't think we'd be coming back. But instead, in spite of matching the Bears turnover for turnover much of the game, we just couldn't keep up that level of offensive ineptitude forever. And Carlos Rogers really ought to take notes, because that's how you punish a team for throwing at you.

The NFC is terrible. Someone mentioned the Redskins potentially being the best team in the conference. Considering that we have wins over the Packers, Eagles and Bears (all NFC teams with winning records), I can see where you might get this idea. But you would be wrong. There is no way the conference is bad enough that we could be considered a top team. I have trouble considering them better than average. I personally kinda think that we deserve to be 4-3, but with losses to the Packers and Bears, and wins against the Colts and Texans. But that didn't happen, and frankly I prefer our wins to come against NFC teams, so I'm not complaining.

For the record, I think that the Giants and the Falcons look like the class of the conference at the moment, although neither look like truly "elite" clubs since their quarterbacks are no better than pretty good.

[Kalbear]

Refs are supposed to look either at the hands or the feet, not both; it requires two refs to look most of the time. The ref was clearly looking at his hands; you can see it in the replay.

I don't think the NFC is terrible; there's just not one or two standout teams. And there really haven't been for years, honestly. This is the same kind of bludgeoning we've seen before. We're just used to it happening at the ennd of a season instead of the beginning.

[Kalbear]

Also, best comment I saw about this week's atrocious performance by Cutler:

"Whenever someone sends a Tweet to Jay Cutler it ends up in DeAngelo Hall's inbox."

[Zadok]

Ben is a really bad liar. I forget exactly what he said but it was something to the effect of having the ball at the bottom of the pile until the ref tapped him on the shoulders then he let it go. The refs made the only call they could've with regards to the replay though. The play was called a TD by the time everyone was diving and going for the ball and there was a giant pile of players, it's not like it rolled to a Miami guy who scooped it right up. The place the refs really screwed up was calling it a TD so quickly, although the guy that made the call was clearly blocked from seeing the fumble until Ben was in the end zone because of the angle. That's why in close cases like this you usually see the refs let them play on if there's any question. If it was ruled a fumble on the field with a Miami recovery then obviously replay would've shown the fumble call to be correct, but once they ruled it a TD there was pretty much no way for them to give Miami the ball in that situation.

[Original Ned's Bones]

What a piss-poor 2nd half for the Rams. They just ran out of gas. Too bad, they need to get a road win to help turn the corner. Oh well, still riding the high of the Mizzou win so I don't feel too upset.

[awesome possum]

Even with Cutler throwing the picks the game was lost by a combination of a horrible non-call and Lovie Smith being a coward. The Cutler fumble at the goal line obviously broke the plane of the goal line. Replays showed it again and again. You can argue forward progress and all that, and maybe there would not have been a TD had Lovie challenged it. But Lovie needed to challenge it and refused to because he was scared after just losing a challenge. Who cares? You're disputing the difference between a touchdown and the other team having the ball and possibly momentum.

Even had the call not be ruled a TD, Haynesworth had a hold of Cutler's facemask for a good 5 seconds before the fumble. How does that not get called? Even if there was no TD, the fumble would have been overturned by a penalty and the Bears either would have punched it in (unlikely) or kicked a field goal and been up 17-10. Assuming Hall still gets the Pick-6, it's 17-17 and overtime.

And the fucking Bears receivers... I don't even know where to begin. Two of the interceptions were clearly on Johnny Knox just quitting on his route. In Mike Martz's offense you don't quit on your route. The QB throws the ball to a certain spot and that's where you need to be to catch it. Knox just quit. He could have at least broken up one of those interceptions had he just continued to the spot and got in Hall's way. Hester could have done the same. He stopped on his route and had he just taken two steps back towards the line of scrimmage he could have at least broken up the INT.

Not to take anything away from Hall. He knew when and where to be and made some great plays. But if the Bears had receivers with an inkling of how to play the position other than "catch the ball when it's dropped between your numbers" Cutler maybe throws one pick and the Bears win in a blowout.

And again, Martz. While he made the proper adjustments and called plays that had the team marching down the field almost at will (until the offense decided they were tired and wanted to give the ball away), he had Forte and Taylor actually producing in the running game. At one point Taylor had two consecutive 12-yard runs, Forte comes in and picks up 2-yards, then 10-yards, then a 12-yard screen. Then they disappeared again, relegated to blocking for a passing game that was turning the ball over on a consistent basis.

If I were the Bears defense, I would be busy putting bars of soap into a wool sock and visiting some offensive players' houses this week.

[Jaxom 1974]

Also, best comment I saw about this week's atrocious performance by Cutler:

"Whenever someone sends a Tweet to Jay Cutler it ends up in DeAngelo Hall's inbox."

My favprite on the radio this morning was when someone texted in and wanted to know if Johnny Knox could wear DeAngelo Hall's jersey the rest of the season...

[Chuck Klingbeil]

If the call of touchdown was reversed, then Miami should have had possession when Alama- Francis emerged with the ball, which the ref should have seen during the replay. Whatever was said to players on the field is irrelevant after the initial call was reversed, because said comments would pertain to an erroneous call.

And no way GrapeRape Roethlisberger recovered that ball. He's nuts.

[Zadok]

The only thing more annoying than awful refs blowing calls is whiny fans that don't know the rules complaining about the wrong thing.

[Lord O' Bones]

I had momentarily forgotten how much I hate the Cowboys.

Thank you Jerry Jones, for reminding me.

[Bronn Stone]

If the call of touchdown was reversed, then Miami should have had possession when Alama- Francis emerged with the ball, which the ref should have seen during the replay. Whatever was said to players on the field is irrelevant after the initial call was reversed, because said comments would pertain to an erroneous call.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

There is a reason that the referees don't sit back and wait for someone to stand up with the ball after a fumble. They dive right in on top of the pile and attempt to determine it as quickly as they can. This didn't happen here.

For good or for ill, the rule says to overturn you have to have a clear recovery and the first Dolphins in the pile failed at their chance to recover cleanly.

Back in the day, the whistle ended the play and the replay was irrelevant. Nowadays, they've modified the rule (and rightfully so) that a whistle blown in error does not end a play IF you can determine on a replay that the whistle likely didn't change the outcome. That requires a quick and clean recovery. But it would be a gross injustice to allow a long scrum after the whistle had blown to determine possession.

[Jaime L]

I had momentarily forgotten how much I hate the Cowboys.

Cowboys. Giants. Mike Tirico.

I look forward to indulging in an orgy of hate.

[Trebla]

I had momentarily forgotten how much I hate the Cowboys.

Thank you Jerry Jones, for reminding me.

that was truly disgusting. It's why I fear no respectable coach will come to Dallas.

on the bright side, the Giants are playing the role of the Cowboys tonight: receivers deflecting balls into the waiting hands of defenders. I hope it hold up.

[BLU-RAY]

Oh, good. Jon Kitna. Wonderful.

ETA: What did Jones do pre-game?

[Lord O' Bones]

Oh, good. Jon Kitna. Wonderful.

ETA: What did Jones do pre-game?

He basically made an awkward "don't worry america, we'll fix your team" speech.

Also, slow punter is slow.

[Jacen]

Gruden seems to have a massive hard on for...everyone?

[awesome possum]

Gruden seems to have a massive hard on for...everyone?

Not everyone, just everyone who happens to make a play. Any kind of play.

[Jaime L]

I feel like a kid on Christmas when I see Jerry and Stephen Jones look on miserably from their luxury box as the Cowboys give up a 13 point lead. It's an involuntary reaction.

Gruden seems to have a massive hard on for...everyone?

First Monday Night game, huh?

[BLU-RAY]

Fuck me, did they just turn the conversation to Favre? BASTARDS!

Jaime, I completely agree. Go Giants!

ETA: Apparently Romo broke his clavicle, damn. That's rough.