Batman 3 is titled "The Dark Knight Rises"

[drawkcabi]

Yeah.

As far as the movie villain goes, I'm not surprised it's not The Riddler cause... really? Riddler?

When did he become one of the top Bat-villains? Sure, he's iconic. But so is Wonder Woman. People can recognize them, but that's it. Neither has anything on their CVs to warrant that much attention. Can anybody name one great Riddler story? The same goes for Penguin.

I'm pretty sure that it was the Adam West Batman series that established Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, and Riddler as the 4 main Batman villians. Since then even though great efforts have been made to distance the character from that show those villians seem to have been cannonized as the top 4 in his rogues gallery.

[red snow]

I'm pretty sure that it was the Adam West Batman series that established Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, and Riddler as the 4 main Batman villians. Since then even though great efforts have been made to distance the character from that show those villians seem to have been cannonized as the top 4 in his rogues gallery.

That's definitely true, although I think the 90s animated series also helped in cementing that fact as well as adding a couple more to the list such as Mr Freeze, Posion Ivy, Harlequinn (created for the show and later inserted into the comics), Man-bat and clayface. It's notable how many of the characters interpretations in the cartoon were later transplanted into the comics as well.

[Jaxom 1974]

Who's left in the iconic Rogues' Gallery?

* Azrael

* Bane

* Catwoman

* Clayface

* Clock King

* Firefly

* Harley Quinn

* Mr. Freeze

* Killer Kroc

* Mad Hatter

* Man-Bat

* Penguin

* Phantasm

* Poison Ivy

* Riddler

* Talia al Ghul

The need to define "iconic" is mandated here. Most good comic fans know all of these villans, but to be "iconic" you need the recognition of the layman.

And Phantasm? :shocked:

I'm pretty sure that it was the Adam West Batman series that established Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, and Riddler as the 4 main Batman villians. Since then even though great efforts have been made to distance the character from that show those villians seem to have been cannonized as the top 4 in his rogues gallery.

Which dovetails into this comment. For good or ill, the 60's Batman helped cement these big four as Batman's main villans. For good or ill, these are "iconic" because they're the ones my mother would know.

[Darkostar]

The need to define "iconic" is mandated here. Most good comic fans know all of these villans, but to be "iconic" you need the recognition of the layman.

Which dovetails into this comment. For good or ill, the 60's Batman helped cement these big four as Batman's main villans. For good or ill, these are "iconic" because they're the ones my mother would know.

Neither of which gels with the fact that Batman Begins used R'as, who is most definitely not "iconic" in the traditional sense, but worked extremely well in the Nolanverse.

My money is on Hush.

[alguien]

Yeah, those are things that Nolan left out.

If you cut out giants from Strange's story you have nothng left. The guy hasn't even appeared in a story for 35 years.

What are you talking about?

Hugo Strange may have started as a sort of Monster Man gimmick (older than the Joker, btw) but since the 70's his main schtick is that he's an (insane) psychiatrist who deduced that Bruce Wayne is Batman. That's I how first learned read him in Prey in LOTDK. (great comic)

There have been several stories (cartoons and comics) about this in the past 15 years or so.

And that would work pretty well in Nolan's world.

ETA: yet you support Simon Hurt? Morrison's sad attempt to create a Big Bad? :rolleyes:

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

The need to define "iconic" is mandated here. Most good comic fans know all of these villans, but to be "iconic" you need the recognition of the layman.

Yes, and all laypeople know and love Ra's al Ghul. :rolleyes:

And Phantasm? :shocked:

DCAU. Mask of the Phantasm was the best Batman movie until the Nolan ones.

[Jaxom 1974]

Neither of which gels with the fact that Batman Begins used R'as, who is most definitely not "iconic" in the traditional sense, but worked extremely well in the Nolanverse.

Yes, and all laypeople know and love Ra's al Ghul. :rolleyes:

Ra's was a gamble. Scarecrow was the MacGuffin...

Keeping that in mind, you could go for one of the not so iconic villans, if you fient with Catwoman say...

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Ra's was a gamble. Scarecrow was the MacGuffin...

Scarecrow is just as iconic as Clayface, Killer Kroc, and Bane.

[Jaxom 1974]

Scarecrow is just as iconic as Clayface, Killer Kroc, and Bane.

Frankly I rank Scarecrow slighly more iconic than any of those other three...

And I'm not saying he isn't. What I'm driving at is that he was the recognizable villan, the known villan, that Nolan used to draw in the audience to make it easier to deal with the lesser known quantity that is Ra's al Gul...(who I, as a comic fan, think of as a seminal Batman villan and it's a shame he wasn't known outside of the comic book world before Batman Begins...)

[Galactus]

Mind, I don't think Ra's Al Ghul WORKED in Batman Begins. He was very much unspectacular and had nothing of Ra's comic-book charisma and menace.

But then again, my favourite version of Batman is "The Brave and the Bold", so what do I know?

[Cantabile]

I didn't really understand the point of R'as in Batman Begins. He seemed very unnecessary, easily replaceable by a more exciting and well known villain. That was redeemed by how spectacular the Joker was in the sequel, though.

[Kalbear]

The whole point of Ra's (and Scarecrow) was that Nolan could fuck with their background without making fanbois go nuts and getting bad press about it firsthand. Later he could fuck with the two face mythos since he had earned the cred.

I think for the third one, if there aren't villains to reinvent nicely he'd rather go with lesser known ones that he can manipulate well. Zsasz is a good one, for instance - completely normal, completely insane, and very psychotic.

Nolan also likes villains that make good moral points to Batman. Ra's (even in Nolan's version) made a fair amount of sense. The Joker made sense too as a response to Batman, and as a villain in his own right - and Two-Face was perfectly done in the same way. Scarecrow messed with people's psyche like Nolan likes. I could very easily see a take on the Mad Hatter but I have a hard time with something like Catwoman; she's too one-note and not enough of a mindfuck. Some of the villains are just too schticky (like Penguin or Mr. Freeze).

Hmm. What about Clayface? Not the animated version, but someone who can mimic anyone based on disguise? That had a pseudoscience merit and deals with identity in interesting ways.

[AverageGuy]

Do they really think Robin is too campy? I'd think Robin could be done in a very serious manner in the right hands, such as Nolan's...

Nolan's already eliminated him, but I think they could do an interesting, non-campy take on an orphaned Dick Grayson with an emphasis on parallels to Bruce. Might be a little too cerebral for a superhero movie, though. And there's the problem of finding a decent child actor.

[Galactus]

Nolan's already eliminated him, but I think they could do an interesting, non-campy take on an orphaned Dick Grayson with an emphasis on parallels to Bruce. Might be a little too cerebral for a superhero movie, though. And there's the problem of finding a decent child actor.

Some people at Scans_Daily tends to point out A) The fact that while BATMAN is scary, how creepy is a brightly-dressed laughing child beating you up? And B) how this paralells the Joker...

[drawkcabi]

Scarecrow is just as iconic as Clayface, Killer Kroc, and Bane.

I think Scarecrow gets to be one notch above these guys in iconic-ness because he was one of the evil 13 in "Challenge of the Superfriends".

But I also agree that with TDK Nolan earned the cred to use any villian he wants in the next movie no matter how obscure.

[Tyrellius]

I'm thinking that Azrael would be a perfect character for the 3rd Batman. He'd carry on the whole Justice/Retribution theme that was started at the end of TDK with Twoface.

[Wras]

Well, the Joker was mentioned right at the end of Batman Begins. On one hand I don't see much reason in over-speculating potential third movie villains based on who was(n't) in Dark Knight, but on the other hand I'd say Harley Quinn or her and someone else could work well.

It's really hard to do multiple villains. Spider-man 3 (among the vast host of simply amateur mistakes) would have been great with just Venom/Harry, or even just... well, no, that would have been fine. But they juggled them too much and nothing made sense. Dark Knight balanced and transitioned well with two villains (in large part because it showed the transformation of one of them).

I have a lot of confidence in Nolan, yet I'm bringing my expectations down (...and hoping to be surprised).

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

But then again, my favourite version of Batman is "The Brave and the Bold", so what do I know?

Nothing. Galactus leave. Right now. Don't even look at me. Don't look back. I am so disappointed. Go. Go right now.

Some of the villains are just too schticky (like Penguin or Mr. Freeze).

"Heart of Ice" would like to have a word with you.

[Tyrellius]

Aah but a villian was mentioned at the end of TDK. The Batman himself.

[Wras]

Aah but a villian was mentioned at the end of TDK. The Batman himself.

Oh shit. Consider my mind blown.