College Football something something

[Mike]

Auburn said it was shameful of Sports Illustrated to report on Cam's cheating at Florida. wow! Auburn is so fucking guilty of paying Cam Newton to play it isn't even funny.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/14267701/consider-the-source-on-newton-story

[Mike]

Again, my problem isn't with Newton, or his performance, or his worthiness for the award. My problem is that it felt to me like the media descended into a collective group-think way too early in the process, and it's like there hasn't even been a discussion about how deserves the Heisman for the last few weeks. He looks more likely to win it now than he did three weeks ago, but no one knew for certain what would happen down the stretch when they made up their collective media mind weeks ago. What if Newton has a few bad games down the stretch, or plays just one really bad game @ Alabama and LMJ puts up about 200 yards a game down the stretch? Will voters be able to change the course of the ocean liner they set in motion already?

The media is weird like that. Before they all jumped on Cam's bandwagon, a lot of folks (Skip Bayless, specifically) were strongly supporting Kellen Moore. Their reason? He had 37 TDs against 3 INT last year. Which if fine, he's a great quarterback and certainly deserving, but why didn't you vote for him LAST YEAR. We were dying for a legitimate offensive Heisman candidate, enough so that Ndamakong Suh was in the top three (deservedly - he's a beast), and Mark Ingram won with a very pedestrian (for a Heisman winning RB) year.

As for the running conversation, I think that two bad games in a row for Newton and two great games in a row for James would have tilted the vote in James' favor. But they would have to be real stinkers for Newton. His numbers this year are amazing, never before seen in the SEC numbers. That would be hard to overcome. But if he choked us out of Atlanta with a couple of three pick games against UGA and Bama, (and James, Moore, or even Luck continued to do what they have been doing, then the conversation would have changed. But a lot of that would be a consequence for Auburn falling out of the national picture. Players on also-ran teams do not get the love, or else Denard Robinson would still be in the discussion.

[BLU-RAY]

Kalbear - That was quite an epic. I wasn't into college football until the Rose Bowl of 1994 when I was in 8th grade, so I didn't really live through the preceding years.

Any word on Costa yet? I haven't seen it mentioned on the ESPN Pac-10 blog, and I haven't been checking Oregonlive or any other local stuff.

Costa's done for the season, it was on the ESPN PAC-10 blog somewhere.

[Arakasi]

The stuff about Cam Newton is starting to heat up here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5786315

This is the first thing I've seen that looks pretty bad. Especially the multiple sources.

[lokisnow]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/14267701/consider-the-source-on-newton-story

Reggie Bush was presumed guilty until proven innocent, so it makes perfect sense to presume the same about Cam.

Poor Gene Chizik, he finally got to a school that had money to pay for athletes (Iowa State didn't) and put together some wins, but then he's getting caught with not just any player, but his star player.

[Mike]

Reggie Bush was presumed guilty until proven innocent, so it makes perfect sense to presume the same about Cam.

Poor Gene Chizik, he finally got to a school that had money to pay for athletes (Iowa State didn't) and put together some wins, but then he's getting caught with not just any player, but his star player.

Well, I never presumed anything about Reggie Bush, but I admit that a lot of Auburn folks did. Anything to validate our 2004 season. But, in the end, he was guilty. So a lot of that stuff, while probably unfair, was vindicated. You've been pretty vehement about your assumptions. Given what you guys went through, I will refrain from arguing with you (probably wouldn't do any good, we both seem to have our minds made up one way or the other). Still though, would you be willing to apologize on this board if Cam and Auburn are cleared?

[Mike]

The stuff about Cam Newton is starting to heat up here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5786315

This is the first thing I've seen that looks pretty bad. Especially the multiple sources.

I don't know, it still looks fishy to me. The mulitiple sources or "recruiters" can't be anyone except their football coaches. Anything else is a violation. So, it should say that a couple of MSU football coaches allege that Cam Newton and his father offered a pay-for-play.

Funny thing is, these allegations come out about ten hours after Gregg Doyel at CBS crapped all over the Bond/Kenny Rogers thing (according to Bond's attorney, he never met with Rogers, but had two others go between himself and Kenny. Therfore, the source for the original article was relaying 4th hand information on the Newtons). So, a few hours after the original source is made to look stupid, a couple more "sources" come out with this info. My question is this? Why didn't these two yahoos come out last week? I understand that coaches probably don't want to be linked up in this, but it's too late, they would have gotten to them eventually.

And today, MSU issues this statement.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Mississippi-State-confirms-it-notified-SEC-about-Cam-Newton-issues-111010

This got my attention:

"The SEC requested specific information from Mississippi State after the notification, the statement said, but the school didn't provide that information until July because it was 'dealing with ongoing and time-consuming eligibility issues involving non-football matters in the winter and spring of 2010.'"

MSU reported some facts to the SEC office in January, but when the SEC came back and requested more information, MSU stalled for half a year until July. Interestingly enough, I'm pretty sure that is when the NCAA got involved and notified Auburn.

Anyway, something stinks about all of this. Maybe it's us, but being an admitted Auburn homer, I'm on the other side of the fence at this point. I'll start getting worried if/when the money shows up because, as of right now, it's a bunch of assholes talking shit.

[Kalbear]

A lot of things stink about this, but at the same time it seems very...fishy about Cam Newton in general. I'm trying to think of when allegations like this have come up and there's been no actual truth to them. Heck, even unproven stuff seems odd; does anyone remember when something like this was accused and there was nothing to it at all?

What's funny is that people think that Oregon is the conspiracy behind it, but they're not looking at the right picture. Yes, Oregon might get a Heisman winner out of it, but TCU or Boise would get a BCS national championship game out of it. Naturally MSU would want to get back at Cam; they're awfully bitter about it. And I suspect that's the main motivation.

I also really think the NCAA system is just systemically broken.

[Mike]

A lot of things stink about this, but at the same time it seems very...fishy about Cam Newton in general. I'm trying to think of when allegations like this have come up and there's been no actual truth to them. Heck, even unproven stuff seems odd; does anyone remember when something like this was accused and there was nothing to it at all?

What's funny is that people think that Oregon is the conspiracy behind it, but they're not looking at the right picture. Yes, Oregon might get a Heisman winner out of it, but TCU or Boise would get a BCS national championship game out of it. Naturally MSU would want to get back at Cam; they're awfully bitter about it. And I suspect that's the main motivation.

I also really think the NCAA system is just systemically broken.

Yeah, something is definitely fishy. But like I said, until the money turns up, or at least until a credible source is named, I'm not going to sweat it. We're undefeated and have a good shot at Glendale. I'll enjoy that until it ends, whenever that may be.

I haven't heard anyone name Oregon as a conspirator. All the AU folks I know are pointing fingers at MSU, some are pointing at Urban Meyer, and not a few are convinced that Alabama is behind the entire thing. It's all gossip right now. Whatever there is to know will come out eventually.

[Ken Stone]

Are we really supposed to believe that there is some mastermind behind all this? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. If that was the case, why Cam? Why not some Oregon players, or if Oregon is behind it, why not some TCU or Boise State players? The fact that people are starting to question the motives behind the people who are making the accusations, in an attempt to turn the attention away from what really happened, is a pretty good indication that Cam is guilty. Hopefully the truth will come out before the Heisman and NC game.

[Mike]

Are we really supposed to believe that there is some mastermind behind all this? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. If that was the case, why Cam? Why not some Oregon players, or if Oregon is behind it, why not some TCU or Boise State players? The fact that people are starting to question the motives behind the people who are making the accusations, in an attempt to turn the attention away from what really happened, is a pretty good indication that Cam is guilty. Hopefully the truth will come out before the Heisman and NC game.

Who said that there is some mastermind behind all of this?

Fans of a school are going to defend that school until it's proven that they can't. Sometimes they do this in very unintelligent ways. Razorbeef's comment was the first time I've heard anyone say that Oregon was the "mastermind" behind all of this. No one worth listening to, nor any Auburn fan or message board I know of is saying that Oregon has anything to do with this. Like I said, nearly every fan is pointing at MSU because they are tied into this thing with us.

Why is the fact that people are starting to question the motives of the "sources" an indication of Newton and/or Auburn's guilt? Is everybody that comes forward with information a paragon of virtue? Should we just accept what "anonymous source" has to say without question? Look at the sources. In the article I posted in the last page confirms that Bond (the original accuser) never spoke with Rogers (the runner), and that they had two guys relay information between them. So Bond (the source) got his information from a guy who got it from a guy who heard it from Kenny Rogers that he was representing the Newtons. That is four degrees to Cameron Newton. Look at this snippet from Schad's latest article - After Newton committed to Auburn, another source said an emotional Cam Newton phoned another recruiter to express regret that he wouldn't be going to Mississippi State, stating that his father, Cecil, had chosen Auburn for him because "the money was too much." So the source talking to Schad never had this conversation with Newton, he heard it from another recruiter (coach). Why wouldn't Auburn fans, or any rational person, wonder about these sources, especially when they are giving out quotes second and third-hand?

I'm not saying that Auburn is squeaky clean, and if we're guilty then I'll be the first to say that we deserve probation and scholly reductions and a bowl ban, but right now it looks like folks are throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.

[Arakasi]

Who thinks that Oregon is behind this? That is just retarded. All the conspiracy talk I've heard is that it is Urban Meyer or Mullen behind it. Oregon really doesn't gain from this.

[lokisnow]

This got my attention:

"The SEC requested specific information from Mississippi State after the notification, the statement said, but the school didn't provide that information until July because it was 'dealing with ongoing and time-consuming eligibility issues involving non-football matters in the winter and spring of 2010.'"

MSU reported some facts to the SEC office in January, but when the SEC came back and requested more information, MSU stalled for half a year until July. Interestingly enough, I'm pretty sure that is when the NCAA got involved and notified Auburn.

July. In other words, the hammer came down on USC so fucking hard that MSU said "HOLY SHIT! we will be killed if we don't Comply, Comply, Comply!" and stopped doing the traditional dragging of the feet and thumbing of the nose and snickering behind the back of the NCAA that all football programs do while making noises about compliance and drug testing.

I think the USC sanctions scared a TON of schools, USC got hit as hard for a single player being paid by agents to leave school early as Alabama got hit for having most of the team on the payroll of the alumni to entice them to stay in school. I think a lot of schools thought, "if you get punished to that degree for having a single player guilty then we've really got to work harder".

[Bronn Stone]

I think you are out of your mind if you think this is anything but the truth.

I also think you are out of your mind if you think this is anything but standard operating procedure across the NCAA.

The number surprised me. A little. I would have thought that the kids were more likely to get 50K than 200K. But the rest doesn't surprise me.

But I'd NEVER defend my school to the death in the face of such accusations. Because I'd know I was wrong. And Cal is far from the worst of offenders. The whole system is dirty. If you don't believe this, you are a fool.

Just like virtually all of them try steroids or HGH or something at some point. You are also a fool if you dispute this. Especially linemen.

[Kalbear]

To get back to LaMichael James and whether or not he'd be a good NFL back:

He's missed one game due to suspension. He's missed none due to injury.

He's had an average of 24.5 carries a game. That's 4th in the nation. He has just under 200 carries total; that's 8th in the nation. He is not like Reggie Bush; he is an every-down back.

He leads the nation in running yards/game and touchdowns. (again, with one less game due to that suspension). He's second in the nation in running yards, behind Denard Robinson by 16 yards - in one fewer games.

And most importantly to the NFL - he appears to get stronger as the game goes on. He doesn't get tired, he gets faster. His biggest runs have been in the second halves of games.

He's a beast. While I'd sob a bit, I wouldn't hold it against him one bit if he went for the NFL after this season. He's really something special.

[wolverine]

To get back to LaMichael James and whether or not he'd be a good NFL back:

He's missed one game due to suspension. He's missed none due to injury.

He's had an average of 24.5 carries a game. That's 4th in the nation. He has just under 200 carries total; that's 8th in the nation. He is not like Reggie Bush; he is an every-down back.

He leads the nation in running yards/game and touchdowns. (again, with one less game due to that suspension). He's second in the nation in running yards, behind Denard Robinson by 16 yards - in one fewer games.

And most importantly to the NFL - he appears to get stronger as the game goes on. He doesn't get tired, he gets faster. His biggest runs have been in the second halves of games.

He's a beast. While I'd sob a bit, I wouldn't hold it against him one bit if he went for the NFL after this season. He's really something special.

Warrick Dunn 5'9" 187 lb

Darren Sproles 5'6" 190 lb

Tiki Barber 5'10" 205 lb

Barry Sanders 5'8" 203 lb

Chris Johnson 5'11" 191 lb

LAMICHAEL JAMES 5'9" 185 as a sophomore in college.

Not that anyone is purporting size is an issue, but I just wanted to put up some comparisons. I think he looks like a stud.

[Gold Storm]

LMJ will be a RB in the NFL, I do not see him more as a Harvin type of player. He would be a great weapon coming out of the backfield match up against a LB.

[Arakasi]

I could see him doing something like MJD has done in Jacksonville. Small tough guy who is hard to bring down. At worst he could be a Sproles type, but I think he's better than that.

[Kalbear]

I think the best comparison is Chris Johnson. Both aren't huge guys, both are really, really fast and shifty and both work in a zone read scheme with a lot of cutback lanes.

Something else that I hadn't realized that makes LMJ a very good pick in the NFL - he is really, really strong on pass protection. They don't take him out on third and long and he doesn't need to be taken out; he'll happily cut across where he starts to absolutely floor a safety or LB. Yet another reason that Darron Thomas has only had 5 sacks this year.

In the season with Dixon people asked if Jonathan Stewart was the better player compared to Dixon, and I vehemently disagreed; I thought the offense ran through Dixon and he made it work. This year I really think it's LMJ. Maybe Barner can do some of the things that LMJ does, but Alston can't and the offense suffers when they don't have a fast back to be able to attack holes and make people pay for overpursuit. Blount's suspension might have been the best thing that could have happened to the team last year.

[Arakasi]

This is more in response to a post Kalbear made in the NFL thread, but what do Pac 10 fans think of the tough schedule? We already have had the Pac 10 beat up on each other because of the parity in the league. Now with the 9 game season plus the championship game all Pac 10 teams are going to just have 1 bye game over the year. It's going to make it pretty tough to rest up. Although pretty much everyone will be in the same boat, it would suck if your team got a bye week before Washington State or ASU while USC or Oregon had a bye week before your game.