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tzanth

How will the TV series deal with R+L=J?

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I'd guess

Alexander Skarsgard

Ugh. He leaves me dry. I do not find him attractive at all. Oh well. I know that a million trillion women do, so it's my own damn fault.

If it is indeed someone of this high profile, it would point an enormous arrow at the importance of that character. Maybe too much, even.

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There was a claim from a somewhat uncertain source in Malta that Stephen Moyer, aka Bill Compton from True Blood, was shooting a scene in Malta. It was a second hand report, though, something this person was told by someone else, and so it's unverified.

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There was a claim from a somewhat uncertain source in Malta that Stephen Moyer, aka Bill Compton from True Blood, was shooting a scene in Malta. It was a second hand report, though, something this person was told by someone else, and so it's unverified.

While I don't find the character of Bill appealing, I can get behind this one a bit more :)

Regardless, they could cast a nobody or Dax Shepard or something and I'll trust that they do it right - I just hope they do it, period. I don't even like to complain at all because everything else has been so amazing.

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Okay, I asked HBO about this and, since they never seem to rest, got a reply back: absolutely no way was Moyer involved in shooting a cameo for Game of Thrones.

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Okay, I asked HBO about this and, since they never seem to rest, got a reply back: absolutely no way was Moyer involved in shooting a cameo for Game of Thrones.

HAHA, after I just spent the past twenty minutes reading gossip on the various websites and WiC about Stephen Moyer in AGOT. Oh well, I can't say that I'm terribly disappointed. Thanks for clarifying that.

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Wtb Sean Connery as Ser Gerold Hightower for a ToJ flashback. I don't care if they have to spend half their budget for one line in a three minute scene.

Connery is pretty much retired from acting, unfortunately. He did some voice work for something called Sir Billi recently, but his last movie was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen in 2003 (and his last good one was Finding Forrester in 2000).

Okay, I asked HBO about this and, since they never seem to rest, got a reply back: absolutely no way was Moyer involved in shooting a cameo for Game of Thrones.

Well, that's actually an interesting scrap of news. I had wondered about that rumor for a while. It had a ring of truth to it when it came out, but I guess it was either a mistake on someone's part or just somebody making crap up.

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In the first season that issue could be completely ignored. All we need to know, and all a casual reader of the first books really remembers is that there is a mystery about Jon's mother, not both his parents. They could even omit the whole ToJ dream sequence, as this might be really confusing, and has not really been resolved in the other books until now. So the writers can't really now if this is important, nor do they now if GRRM is ever going to reveal what really happened. He could, of course through Howland Reed, but that does not mean that is going to do it.

But my guess is that they won't omit it, and I'm pretty sure that we can interpret a lot of Rhaegar and Lyanna mentioning during the first season as a confirmation for R+L=J, as this characters would be omitted entirely from the series if they were not really important later on for the Jon stuff. They are, after all, confirmed dead.

And the whole 'Promise me, Ned' stuff would be really confusing if the writers portrayed it as something important, as the audience would feel betrayed if it would be completely dropped after Ned's death (which is exactly what happens in the books).

So I'm only expecting that they might include the dream sequence, and show this as something which really troubled Ned.

We only need a little background in the first season about the Targaryen situation and how it came to pass that now Robert Baratheon is King, but that's that. Investigating the Targaryen, Stark, and Martell family tree in search for dead members makes little sense in a TV series. But talking about Rhaegar would at least fit nicely into the Dany scenes about the last true dragon etc. So there is really a chance that the audience is going to realize that there was another Targaryen prince out there until Robert killed him.

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So the writers can't really now if this is important, nor do they now if GRRM is ever going to reveal what really happened.

GRRM has apparently disclosed some of the secrets of the series to D&D. Including how the series will end IIRC. So they will know what is important from a book POV anyhow.

I'm sure we will learn about Rhaegar through Dany. And Lyanna was mentioned in the draft pilot script. I agree that the Tower of Joy scene is the most important at this stage. It will be interesting to see what they do with that.

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I dont see any problems to include Eddard dreams and flashbacks into the series.

they will serve the same purpose in the series as they do in books. One of the many hooks that keeps us getting back, staying interested and re-reading and re watching the series in future.

There is no need to provide any definite answers to the series viewers before those answers are revealed in the books.

Im hoping for impressive dream sequence of those old heroes ghosts, the challenge exchange, flower petals and blood and a lingering desperate whisper.

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I dont see any problems to include Eddard dreams and flashbacks into the series.

they will serve the same purpose in the series as they do in books. One of the many hooks that keeps us getting back, staying interested and re-reading and re watching the series in future.

The main problem I have with flashbacks is that they are not as easy to do on TV IMO. The viewer needs to know that we are looking at events 17 years before (or whenever). You could do a "17 years earlier" thing but I don't think its very neat.

They are also a little expensive, given that you have to make everyone look younger (difficult) or cast a lot of people for a very short scene.

I'm not ruling them out. I'm just not relying on seeing many.

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I'm rather doubtful at this point that there will be a Tower of Joy scene, especially with the lack of casting information. In a limited way this applies for the duel at the Trident, too.

The producers would need at least one impressive actor to play either Ser Arthur Dayne, who would have to appear quite formidable, maybe even brandishing Dawn, or Ser Gerold Hightower. The remaining Kingsguard knights could be portrayed by extras, I guess. If they care about continuity in later seasons, they would also have to put Howland Reed at Lord Eddard's side. And, of course, someone would have to play a dying Lyanna Stark.

For the duel they could use extras with visors down. But the props seem to be quite expensive: Memorable armour for both Baratheon and Targaryen, a proper sword for the prince and the famous warhammer for his enemy - and rubies, lots and lots of rubies... ;)

As awesome as a scene at the Tower of Joy or the duel between Robert Baratheon and Rhaegar Targaryen would be in my eyes, I doubt that they will go along with the necessary expenses. Hopefully, I'm wrong. :)

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The main problem I have with flashbacks is that they are not as easy to do on TV IMO. The viewer needs to know that we are looking at events 17 years before (or whenever). You could do a "17 years earlier" thing but I don't think its very neat.

I don't think that's a problem though for the Tower of Joy. It should be pretty clear that Ned's remembering/dreaming.

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The producers would need at least one impressive actor to play either Ser Arthur Dayne, who would have to appear quite formidable, maybe even brandishing Dawn, or Ser Gerold Hightower. The remaining Kingsguard knights could be portrayed by extras, I guess. If they care about continuity in later seasons, they would also have to put Howland Reed at Lord Eddard's side. And, of course, someone would have to play a dying Lyanna Stark.

For the duel they could use extras with visors down. But the props seem to be quite expensive: Memorable armour for both Baratheon and Targaryern, a proper sword for the prince and the famous warhammer for his enemy.

If they dont want to film this then they have no business doing the series at all.

All of those are essential parts of the story. There is no way they could exclude those and just not film them.

That would be extremely moronic.

Lack of casting news doesnt have to mean anything at this point where theyre concentrating to film the first obvious layer of the story.

And i dont see any need for "THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE PAST" notifications for flashbacks. Its not like we havent seen any in thousands of other movies and its pretty damn clear what they are when you see them on screen.

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I could see some of the flashbacks (those told as a story) being done in a similar way to how the Tale of the Three Brothers was done in the latest Harry Potter film. The Tourney at Harrenhal is one that springs to mind for this treatment another could be the fight between Robert and Rhaegar (told to Bran and Rickon by Old Nan maybe or by Arya to Mycah as they hunt for Rubies).

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If they dont want to film this then they have no business doing the series at all.

I'm glad the producers may not agree with you. :P I'm going to watch GoT for more than just a Tower of Joy scene. And honestly, its not essential for S1. We have read 4 books without knowing Jon's parentage. We don't need scenes in GoT S1 to hint at the truth. (We'll know he doesn't know his mother. That will be enough).

They can always do a version of the ToJ scene via the Reeds later on.

IIf they care about continuity in later seasons, they would also have to put Howland Reed at Lord Eddard's side. And, of course, someone would have to play a dying Lyanna Stark.

OTOH I do think ToJ is possible. And i'd certainly like it. In the books Ned's companions are shadowy, so the TV series could get away with the same approach also. Lyanna doesn't have to be shown at all. Only her dieing words. So its not terribly difficult to do. Ned has to be made younger though. That's an issue. Although, given how brief the scene is...doable.

I don't think that's a problem though for the Tower of Joy. It should be pretty clear that Ned's remembering/dreaming.

True. That's why I think this is the most likely "flashback" type scene we'll see.

Sure. Other series do flashbacks. Some don't do it very well though. GoT is going to be complicated enough, without adding layers on top of layers. Especially layers which aren't explored much for the next 3 books.

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If they dont want to film this then they have no business doing the series at all.

All of those are essential parts of the story. There is no way they could exclude those and just not film them.

That would be extremely moronic.

Guy, if you're going to have this type of reaction, I think I can flat out state you're not going to like this show: Martin himself has stated that the show will not be slavishly faithful to the books. Eddard's dream sequence is hardly essential to the plot; any information from that chapter that they feel is necessary to have in the show can be told via dialogue.

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We don't know yet if the ToJ scene is that important. It could be just Ned remembering stuff about his sister's death and some poor decisions he made some 15 years ago. Decisions that must not necessarily be important in the present or after Ned's death.

The whole Jon business could be treated/introduced without the ToJ scene. And I'm pretty sure that nobody is going to care much about Ser Arthur Dayne or the White Bull in this series. They are not even important in the books until ASoS where Jaime starts to think about them.

One really could easily insert a clue about the possibility of J+R=J by talking about Rhaegar and Lyanna in a Dany scene. Maybe Viserys could say something like 'that stupid woman our brother died for' and Dany responsing 'I thought you said he loved her'.

We should also get some clue about the place where Lyanna Stark died, but that's it. We don't really need a ToJ scene. But I admit I really would like to see such a scene.

The scene(s) I really want to see 1:1 are Dany's scenes in the House of the Undying. This has to be redone down to the letter to become really powerful, especially all the hints to the future/past of various characters.

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I admit, I would be rather sad if we never hear of the three Kingsguard at the tower of joy, because while these things may not be important in terms of plot, they are important in terms of atmosphere. This is a key event that adds to the capital-R romanticism of the setting. But I expect some nod or mention of it shall be made, regardless of whether we get a flashback or not.

And I admit I'd be a little disappointed if they couldn't actually show the tower of joy dream... but given how many things they'd have to juggle, I'm sure it would be the best choice they could make, if it came to it.

We'll have to wait and see, I suppose. They are keeping a lot of cards very close to their chests.

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This is interesting. I have a question, actually. I know it's not uncommon for TV shows to drift away from the books in terms of plot and go their own way. So, what if HBO said that R+L=J is canon in the show? Would that possibly cause a force of hand for George to make the theory true or do you think that the show and books would just be different in that way?

Not saying that it's going to happen. On the contrary, I really doubt it ever would, but theoretically.

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So, what if HBO said that R+L=J is canon in the show? Would that possibly cause a force of hand for George to make the theory true or do you think that the show and books would just be different in that way?

There will be book canon and TV canon. Its the only way it can work. There has already been a lot of small changes to what happens in the book.

I admit, I would be rather sad if we never hear of the three Kingsguard at the tower of joy, because while these things may not be important in terms of plot, they are important in terms of atmosphere. This is a key event that adds to the capital-R romanticism of the setting.

Indeed. While I am not a big Targaryen fan, I do think the world lost something noble when the family fell. The fall of the Kingsguard is an epic moment.

The House of Undying will certainly be a test for their special effects crew. And its harder to work on screen compared to in a book. Lots of symbolic stuff going on.

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