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Ser_not_appearing_yet

All-purpose TV nitpick extravaganza thread.

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Jaime Lannister, our mighty swordman, get whacked off by a seriously wounded Liam Neeson

I haven't seen that movie, but I'm guessing that what you mean is that the NCW character was killed by the Liam Neeson character... in which case you probably should get rid of the word "off" there, or you'll be giving people a very different idea of what was going on.

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NCW's acting seems very solid. I like what i've seen so far, specially from the conversation with Tyrion after Bran falls. I really like him as jaime!!

I really have very little problems with the stuff they changed or didn't add. My biggest issues by far so far is the absence of the frigging Blackfish. That's just horrible, and my only true disappointment.

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Many other characters are lacking any kind of a beard (like Barristan and Kevan, Pycelle's beard appears unimpressive...). So, it's a weird decision that they gave a beard to other characters (Jon, Renly).

I don't understand your logic. If they're going to change the appearances of some characters in one way, why is it weird that they'd change the appearances of other characters in a different way? I would think it would be weirder if HBO had for some reason decided on a general policy of hair removal for everyone.

Also, how is "having an unimpressive beard" supposed to be an example of "lacking any kind of a beard"?

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I think Fairly is fine, but I've always had a few pictures of several actresses in my mind-- my "dream cast," or what you will-- who I think would fit the part better. Since this summer, I've always wanted Sarah Parish to play Catelyn. (She played Reagan Hamleigh on the miniseries The Pillars of the Earth.)

Re: Ned and Jaime-- I agree with you 100 percent. So many of the scenes with these two seem slightly off to me, in regards to their characters personalities. Most notable is the scene where Jaime challanges Ned to a joust, and Ned responds by steping up to Jaime threateningly, hissing, "I don't like to fight in tournaments. So that way, when I fight a man for real, he won't know what I can do." I mean, WTF? Book Ned would have NEVER done this. Not only does he not believe in fighting in tournaments for a completly different reason, he would also never say corny, alpha male crap like this. And finally, there's the fact that Ned is only a mediocre swordsman and jouster, so...yeah.

Also, the scene where Jaime talks to Ned about why he slew Arys, and how it felt like justice. Jaime would have never spoken to anyone, least of all Ned Stark, about killing Aerys. Furthermore, he never would have tried to justify his actions in this way, or empathize with Ned over Aerys killing of Ned's dad and brother. Also, Ned's reaction was weird, too. I can't see book Ned reacting like this; he'd probably be downright baffled if Jaime made this confession to him in the books.

Yeah see. This and some of the other "nitpicks" are making me worried... Ugh. I can understand it taking an episode for the characters to sort of settle into the story. But I hope it will be just that and not that I am mostly unhappy with this show.

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Yeah see. This and some of the other "nitpicks" are making me worried... Ugh. I can understand it taking an episode for the characters to sort of settle into the story.

Its more that they have changed certain aspects of the novel. :) Ned is going to be more of a fighter. Jaime is going to reveal a little back-history via conversation (its the way adaptations work). Best get used to changes like that now, so that the TV series isn't a horrible shock to you.

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Its more that they have changed certain aspects of the novel. :) Ned is going to be more of a fighter. Jaime is going to reveal a little back-history via conversation (its the way adaptations work). Best get used to changes like that now, so that the TV series isn't a horrible shock to you.

I can understand why they are having Jaime express the bitterness of nobody appreciating him kill the King. I mean, otherwise people will pretty much see him as a one dimensional villain who fucks his own sister until Season 2. It seems like alot of the choices are made so the audience well get a clearer view of who the characters are.

In the first book you had the Kingslayer explained through the POV of the Starks and it is patently misleading. These things flesh out the characters better. Also, I don't think Ned is ever described as a mediocre swordsman but competent.

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It sounds like we agree, over all, that they've done a pretty good job with the casting

Mostly they fall into the good/excellent camp for me, with Dany, Arya and Littlefinger leading the pack. They look fantastic and from what I've seen really seem into it.

For me Catelyn isn't off because of Fairley's age, exactly. I was struck by that at first but upon reflection and discussion I think it's more just about particular qualities (it really shouldn't be a problem to have older female characters in stories after all). Still, I don't think she is glaringly miscast, just kindasorta. She brings a lot of advantages in terms of talent. This is one role that would really turn maudlin without an actor capable of utter emotional honesty. Overall I'm torn; I feel secure believing that she's going to be compellingly portrayed, but I haven't clicked with the concept yet. I still feel like it's approximately Catelyn rather than Catelyn.

I'll go along with that. I really have no idea how good of an actress she is. I'm sure I will, ahem, like her no less than I previously have. :)

Also, the scene where Jaime talks to Ned about why he slew Arys, and how it felt like justice. Jaime would have never spoken to anyone, least of all Ned Stark, about killing Aerys. Furthermore, he never would have tried to justify his actions in this way, or empathize with Ned over Aerys killing of Ned's dad and brother. Also, Ned's reaction was weird, too. I can't see book Ned reacting like this; he'd probably be downright baffled if Jaime made this confession to him in the books.

That's the exact scene that got me - it managed to botch both of them. :P I also thought it was bizarre to see Ned go from one moment showing contempt for Jaime on the one hand for doing his duty and allowing his father and brother to burn, and then like 2 seconds later showing contempt for him for not doing his duty and killing Aerys.

Its more that they have changed certain aspects of the novel. :) Ned is going to be more of a fighter. Jaime is going to reveal a little back-history via conversation (its the way adaptations work). Best get used to changes like that now, so that the TV series isn't a horrible shock to you.

I can understand and welcome a conversation between Jaime and someone else about what he did, but there are good and bad ways to go about it. For example, it would have been much better IMO, to have Jaime respond to Ned's quip about what he tells himself at night by laughing in his face and making a joke. You don't lose any exposition, but you gain a bit of humour and, most importantly for Jaime, the potential for development down the road. If we don't have anything to contrast future-Jaime with then we've kinda lost something. :dunno:

But thinking back to the six characters that really hit my list way back when footage first started coming out (Robert, Cersei, Ned, Cat, Dany and Theon), I'm reminded how little we've seen of Theon. I'd really like to see how he comes off, and I'm a bit surprised that a video featurette of him hasn't turned up.

Theon's tale is one of my favourite parts of the whole story. I'm just hoping it survives the chop (I suppose it has to, but you never know).

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I also thought it was bizarre to see Ned go from one moment showing contempt for Jaime on the one hand for doing his duty and allowing his father and brother to burn, and then like 2 seconds later showing contempt for him for not doing his duty and killing Aerys.

I thought it was more that Ned doesn't believe Jaime's explanation. He killed Aerys because of Brandon and Rickard? How sweet. Jaime is known for been sweet. :P

At the same time, concerns about how Jaime will appear are valid. I think there are enough hints that they are making him look like a villian. But conversations like with Ned could confuse things. OTOH, it really depends how that scene comes across. We might take Ned's side.

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And what`s with Valryian swords looking nothing like a weapon made of an unique metal?
In one of the making-of features, they discuss how the Valyrian swords in the show (at least Ice and the infamous dagger) are made using pattern welding, which produces a lovely texture on the blade that is unlike other methods of forging. It's more subtle, but it's something that makes the blades stand out a bit to my eye. I am glad they didn't go for something that would stand out more but could look silly or out of place, personally.

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I also thought it was bizarre to see Ned go from one moment showing contempt for Jaime on the one hand for doing his duty and allowing his father and brother to burn, and then like 2 seconds later showing contempt for him for not doing his duty and killing Aerys.

I don't think that's bizarre at all; it's not purely logical by Vulcan standards, but it's very believable human behavior. Ned may have a rigid code of honor, but I don't think that extends to cutting people a break for allowing his loved ones to be illegally immolated by a lunatic. Plus, as Tyrion tries to point out to some of Joffrey's minions later on, the Kingsguard's job is to guard the life of the king, not to enable every single grotesque thing he might decide to do.

Also I think there's always been a streak of irrational antipathy in Ned's view of Jaime. It's bad enough that the guy broke his Kingsguard vow, but what really grates Ned's cheese is that Jaime was a flippant, snotty, golden-armored kid who didn't seem to acknowledge or care about what a serious thing he'd done. If, say, Barristan had killed Aerys, Ned probably would've treated him with a little more respect.

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It's bad enough that the guy broke his Kingsguard vow, but what really grates Ned's cheese is that Jaime was a flippant, snotty, golden-armored kid who didn't seem to acknowledge or care about what a serious thing he'd done. If, say, Barristan had killed Aerys, Ned probably would've treated him with a little more respect.

Just to nitpick, I don't think that is irrational antipathy.

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And what`s with Valyrian swords looking nothing like a weapon made of an unique metal?

Was the impression from the books that Valyrian steel was almost zebra-like in its contrasting metals?

Anyone familiar with high-end cutlery, might have envisioned the pattern on Shun knives. Or this. This is what I was thinking.

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(Modern) Damascus steel is made via pattern welding, so we are talking about effectively the same thing. From someone more knowledgeable than myself:

What is often called Damascus steel is more properly known as damascened steel and is the result of taking iron bars of various types, twisting them together and forging them into a blade in a process known as pattern welding. This produces blades of extraordinary beauty with complex patterns and markings. Real damascus steel was is believed to have been created from wootz using a now lost process and was famous for its strength and ability to carry an edge.

The Valyrian blades are made using pattern welding, so they are in fact damascened steel. I would imagine the look of the blade can vary quite a bit depending on the steel used, how many times it is folded, how it is folded, etc.

Wikipedia has some interesting stuff as well, including:

The original method of producing Damascus steel is not known. Due to differences in raw materials and manufacturing techniques, modern attempts to duplicate the metal have failed. Today, the term is used to describe steel that mimics the appearance and performance of Damascus steel, usually that which is produced by the techniques of crucible forging or pattern welding.

The reputation and history of Damascus steel has given rise to many legends, such as the ability to cut through a rifle barrel, or cut a hair falling across the blade.[2] No evidence exists to support such claims. But National Geographic and others have reported on research revealing nanowires and carbon nanotubes (which was the first time this had been seen in steel). Whatever the lost methods of making Damascus steel, of ore refinement and forging, they accidentally harnessed impurities and changes at the molecular level. Although modern steel still outperforms these swords, the microscopic chemical reactions may have made the blades more resilient for their time. Other experts are unsurprised, and expect to discover such nanotubes in more and more relics as they are looked at more closely

All in all, I like the look of Ice quite a bit, although it isn't exactly what I envisioned.

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All in all, I like the look of Ice quite a bit, although it isn't exactly what I envisioned.

My wife has not read the books, and after she saw Ice for the first time she said "Holy shit look at that sword!"

So I think the producers did a fair enough job with it

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