Jaime Lannister in season 2...

[Maester May]

I got to thinking about how Jaime Lannister could be made more prominent in season 2, rather than just being absent all the way until the end. They could make his escape attempt a little bit more "onscreen" than it was in the book (and I'm pretty sure that will be the case) and maybe show some more of him in his cell, e.g. show some conversations between him and Edmure or Robb.

On other thing I thought of was the post on WiC's site about how the crowning of Robb might be taking place in the north on the show... that could mean that important scenes like the Whispering Wood don't take place until season 2. It would establish Jaime's presence a little more throughout the season as well, with his capture coming in episode 2 or so, escape attempt midway through the season, and then Cat's conversation with him in the finale.

My only problem with this is that it takes away from the surprise of Ned's death a little more. The first time I read GoT, I thought an exchange of prisoners was all but eminent. Although they obviously didn't know about Jaime's capture in KL until shortly after Joff's shitshow on the Stepstones.

[Andhaira]

They COULD do something like that, but I would really hope they don't. Keep things the way they are in the books. This does mean that Jaime will be out of the loop for season 2, but so be it. They can show smatterings of him in each episode, and ofcourse there will be escape attempt which they can spend around 3 episodes on (the planning, the execution, and finally the recapture)

[Maester May]

They can show smatterings of him in each episode, and ofcourse there will be escape attempt which they can spend around 3 episodes on (the planning, the execution, and finally the recapture)

Remember though that Jaime wouldn't be involved in the planning. He would be completely oblivious at least until the Lannister party comes to Riverrun with Tyrion's terms.

[Padraig]

I would be very surprised if we don't see Jaime captured in S1. While it would give him something more to do at the beginning of any S2, it would mean he has nothing to do in S1 after he his face off with Ned. (Ok, they may throw in an early meeting with Tywin but since the Tully's don't feature in S1, we wouldn't see him capture Edmure either).

Now it is possible that they could delay the crowning of Robb to S2. Given the Tully's are missing, this could work. But we would lose a great climax, so i'm thinking against that too.

Remember though that Jaime wouldn't be involved in the planning. He would be completely oblivious at least until the Lannister party comes to Riverrun with Tyrion's terms.

True. Instead, they could have one of the spies sneak into Jaime's room (at that stage his accomodation is quite comfortable). Discuss their plan. And then we could see him escape later.

I agree that we could see more interaction between Jaime and the Tully's/Starks before their big showdown. Another possibility is that they could use a chapter from Jaime's POV in aSoS in S2 . The Catelyn v Jaime climax can happen at the end of the second (or third) last episode instead. Timewise that would be better anyhow, since the end of aCoK happens after Jaime's POV Chapter 1.

[Scion of Valyria]

On other thing I thought of was the post on WiC's site about how the crowning of Robb might be taking place in the north on the show... that could mean that important scenes like the Whispering Wood don't take place until season 2.

Say what now? I've been following WiC pretty steadily and I didn't see that. The north? That would mean he'd be crowned before winning a battle. And Ned dying. Could you link me to this post?

In my own view, I don't see a need to move it to season 2. Yeah it would give Jaime more season two screen time, but it'd detract from his season one screen time, which, if the books are any judge, is pretty small already. (They're expanding it a bit from what I recall of the leaked pilot script, but plot-wise, not much). Jaime's important parts are pushing Bran out a window, assaulting Ned, and then the Whispering Woods. The actor playing him doesn't seem renowned enough to warrant extreme efforts for more screen time.

The last two chapters of GoT involve Robb being proclaimed king and the dragons being born. I think that would make an awesome season finale, as well as a huge hook for those not familiar with the books for the second season. The capture of Jaime in episode 9, and the proclamation at the very end (or second to last) of episode 10. Golden.

They really oughta keep it to one season per book. Gives 'em more focused, and really, all the books can be done with 10-14 episodes.

[Maester May]

Say what now? I've been following WiC pretty steadily and I didn't see that. The north? That would mean he'd be crowned before winning a battle. And Ned dying. Could you link me to this post?

Here was the more recent one:

http://winter-is-coming.net/2010/11/day-131-filming-in-its-final-weeks/

I'm assuming that the timeline would be different. Like maybe no battles for Robb in season one, maybe they'll just crown him with the promise of moving south to fight against Lannisters to avenge his father. I would rather the Whispering Woods take place in season 1, but it would make for a huge draw into season 2, with people going, "Holy shit, there's a war next season!"

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Here was the more recent one:

http://winter-is-coming.net/2010/11/day-131-filming-in-its-final-weeks/

I'm assuming that the timeline would be different. Like maybe no battles for Robb in season one, maybe they'll just crown him with the promise of moving south to fight against Lannisters to avenge his father. I would rather the Whispering Woods take place in season 1, but it would make for a huge draw into season 2, with people going, "Holy shit, there's a war next season!"

Hmm I think most people in WiC think that WW will happen in Season 2, followed by KING IN THE NORTH! They've cast Lord Frey now, which was the main doubt as to whether they'd do all of Robb's storyline in S1. The only thing they did apparently cut for sure is meeting the Tullys. They'll capture Jaime, declare Robb king, and then go to Riverrun.

As for Jaime in S2... yeah I think they'll give both Jaime and Robb new scenes that take place after Catelyn goes south to parley with Renly. Both characters are largely backgrounded in the book but are important enough that won't work well in a TV show. I'd say every other episode will be enough, so 5-6 total scenes for each of Jaime and Robb, some of them overlapping. I agree that Jaime's escape attempt will be included and he'll be involved to a larger extent than he was in the book - it's important to reemphasize how dangerous he is I think (which will make Cat's subsequent actions seem all the more disastrous!).

[MirriMaz]

He'll probably get a few scenes with Catelyn and Brienne to establish their relationship a bit more. i don't think they should do a lot of changes to the flow of the book just to accomodate the actor appearing more, there's a couple more characters who don't appear in the books for a while (Lysa, Theon) and changing events just to plant them is a bit much.

[Tyrone Biggums]

I doubt they will move his capture to season 2 - the whole point of the end of season 1 would be to set up the War of 5 Kings. The only way for Robb, is for him to win that battle, capture Jaime, be declared King in the North. That would be one hell of a finale too and make people want to tune into season 2.

In season 2, they can have Robb and co. questioning Jaime a few times in episodes, then he has his attempted escape, maybe have a few scenes with Catelyn talking to him before letting him free.

[Padraig]

I'm assuming that the timeline would be different. Like maybe no battles for Robb in season one, maybe they'll just crown him with the promise of moving south to fight against Lannisters to avenge his father. I would rather the Whispering Woods take place in season 1, but it would make for a huge draw into season 2, with people going, "Holy shit, there's a war next season!"

Well, with or without the Whispering Woods, there is going to be a war next season. :) So I don't think holding off on the Whispering Woods will help increase anticipation.

So i'd agree with Tyrone here. I don't see any reason to hold off on the Whispering Woods. We shouldn't fear the worst. Otherwise that whole storyline goes nowhere.

Hmm I think most people in WiC think that WW will happen in Season 2, followed by KING IN THE NORTH!

I presume you meant Season 1 here?

i don't think they should do a lot of changes to the flow of the book just to accomodate the actor appearing more, there's a couple more characters who don't appear in the books for a while (Lysa, Theon) and changing events just to plant them is a bit much.

I suspect Jaime is going to be more popular that most. :) And he is one of the main cast members. But yes, while I wouldn't mind a few extra scenes, I hope they keep it to that.

[Werthead]

I think GRRM mentioned at one point that the casting notes for Jaime noted that he'd have a few scenes in S1, be mostly absent for S2 and then be a much bigger and more prominent character after that. Obviously things might have changed in the year since then, but that suggests they might hew closer to the books.

Another way of changing that might be to have conversations and discussions between say Edmure and Jaime whilst the latter is a prisoner every couple of episodes, and to show, not tell, the escape attempt that fails. That'd put NCW into at least a few episodes of S2 and keep him in the general audience's mind before we see him more regularly in S3.

[Padraig]

I think GRRM mentioned at one point that the casting notes for Jaime noted that he'd have a few scenes in S1, be mostly absent for S2 and then be a much bigger and more prominent character after that.

I was wondering about the scale of that. Even with a few extra scenes in S2, he would still have a very low profile role, except for the end. So I was wondering was that what GRRM meant. Given they have given him a few extra scenes in S1 (although with other prominent people like Ned and Tyrion), I suspect they will give him a few more in any S2. But either way, nice to know they were at least planning to stick reasonably close to the books.

[Loras]

Another option would be to make Rickard Karstark more prominent in the second season. If Robb is crowned after the Whispering Woods and before Riverrun, then Jaime is going to be present at the crowning... which would be something quite significant in terms of the story telling. I.e "Jaime Lannister sends his regards".

So having Jaime Lannister looking on in chains would be a nice dramatic contrast, it would also give Jaime a humanising moment towards the end of the season when he sees that this boy king is going to try to kill his own son. It also brings about a nice parallel with Catelyn, who should also be watching on concerned about Robb's safety. Again this would pay off nicely when Cat eventually releases Jaime.

So at the beginning of Season 2, Jaime would need to be put in a cell in Riverrun - maybe the Battle of the Camps will happen at the beginning of S2? So he would be present there.

Then we could have some major discussion about what they are going to do with Jaime Lannister. Perhaps Rickard Karstark could lead the assault here, suggesting that Lannister is killed. So while Jaime wouldn't be appearing on screen he would be discussed, which would keep him in the audience's mind.

A nice additional scene would be Jaime finding out about Stannis' letter.

Another nice additional scene would be Rickard Karstark possibly seeking vengeance, going down to the dungeon. It could be a very emotional scene, and a major turning point for Jaime. It would show how cut up Karstark was about his sons dying, which again is further set up for what happens later with regards to Karstark. It would be nice to show a scene with him and Catelyn - Karstark wanting to avenge his sons and Catelyn desperately trying to keep her daughters safe.

Then you have the failed escape attempt, which could occur on screen. This would further exacerbate the Karstark situation. Maybe he could try and convince Edmure to behead Lannister in case he escapes? Again this keeps Jaime as a focus, even if he isn't on screen as such.

Then Catelyn returns and we have the scene with Catelyn and Brienne - again, the nice contrast between Karstark wanting to avenge his sons and Cat wanting to keep her daughters alive (especially now that she thinks her sons are dead).

Then finally the scenes where Brienne actually busts the Kingslayer free...

And a final Karstark-Cat scene, which sees Karstark go off the rails and do what we all know will lead to his downfall...

Just some ideas... :)

[Padraig]

And a final Karstark-Cat scene, which sees Karstark go off the rails and do what we all know will lead to his downfall...

Pretty interesting ideas. One problem is that Karstark is supposed to be with Robb and Robb heads West pretty early in aCoK. Now Karstark doesn't have to be with Robb. Karstark could play a prominent role in the defence of Riverrun instead of helping Robb. Certainly introducing Karstark in S2 would work nicely.

[Loras]

Pretty interesting ideas. One problem is that Karstark is supposed to be with Robb and Robb heads West pretty early in aCoK. Now Karstark doesn't have to be with Robb. Karstark could play a prominent role in the defence of Riverrun instead of helping Robb. Certainly introducing Karstark in S2 would work nicely.

Robb would initially have the Greatjon (did he get cast? I haven't kept up) and the Blackfish to bounce around with, at least initially until his 'love story' picks up speed. I think it would be quite nice to have wee Olyvar Frey as an at least semi-prominent figure, to remind the audience about what Robb gained by crossing the Twins. He doesn't really need Karstark as well, it could be easily explained that Robb thought he was too brash and therefore didn't want him going with him to go West. It would be much better for Karstark to remain in Riverrun?

It means as well that there would be a second named character there with Edmure, so that the tension could remain fairly strong. We'd maybe get some nice character development of Edmure, showing how malleable he can be? It means a bigger deal can be made of Edmure riding out and beating Tywin's host? Pretty sure that happens in the ACoK timeline?

It would also be a nice part for a big name film actor, especially considering it would be fairly abrupt. I.e we would like you for 10 episodes. Maybe someone like Jason Isaacs (Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter).

[The Anti-Targ]

No, I think Jaime being captured in Season 1 is an important climax to the season. People will either love him or hate him at the point of his capture, making it a big draw to come back to season 2 to see his fate.

It's also got to be there to lift the spirits of those who are downcast by Ned's death. Robb needs to do something important to make his crowning as King in the North look like it means something. Leaving Robb hanging as a boy King with nothing to show for it but a scattered family will deflate that story arc and be rather anti-climactic.

Just like Arwyn was insinuated into the LOTR movies to keep her character in people's minds, a captive Jaime can be woven into Season 2 to to keep the viewers aware of his continued presence in the story.

[Padraig]

We have a Greatjon cast. I'm not sure we will see Olyvar Frey though. He doesn't feature much in the books really. Depends on how big a focus we'll have on Robb in any S2. I'd be more worried about them casting the Blackfish. I presume they will do that though.

The problem with leaving Karstark behind is that, given his dislike of Jaime, it wouldn't be very clever of Robb. But yes, having Karstark, the Greatjon and the Blackfish with Robb would seem like overkill. They could have Karstark arrive south half way through S2 after Robb has left. Reinforcements from the North. And he starts to upset people then. Might give Cat another reason to release Jaime.

The other possibility is that they ignore the character until we get to S3 (hopefully). And then have him return with Robb, raging about Cat.

I think either way, it is quite a small role. He has a nice death scene but except for a few angry scenes its not as fun as Oberyn or even the Halfhand.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I definitely wouldn't mind seeing some added scenes with Jaime in the second season. Just because none of our PoV characters interacted with him until the end book 2 doesn't mean no one else interacted with Jaime. One of the things I was looking forward to most to the series was seeing events unfold that we only heard about from the characters after they took place. The failed rescue attempt would be perfect to show and maybe some scenes with Robb questioning him as a prisoner or something like that.

[Loras]

The problem with leaving Karstark behind is that, given his dislike of Jaime, it wouldn't be very clever of Robb. But yes, having Karstark, the Greatjon and the Blackfish with Robb would seem like overkill. They could have Karstark arrive south half way through S2 after Robb has left. Reinforcements from the North. And he starts to upset people then. Might give Cat another reason to release Jaime.

That is true. I do like the idea of Karstark returning part way through the season, maybe they could show his growing discontent in his relationship with Jeyne Westerling? Or that would be a reason to prompt his return. In fact, what might be a better reason for his return would be Robb sending him north to help in the defence against the Ironborn? The reason I say that is that it would tie the Theon story into the Robb story a bit better.

I think Karstark's thirst for vengeance against Jaime Lannister is a particularly humanising plotline - albeit minor in the books. But it does neatly parallel Catelyn's own quest for vengeance. I also think introducing the Karstark character in Season 2 would give the Robb, Catelyn and Jaime arcs more strength throughout the season. Also if the writing was clever enough and Karstark was made somewhat likeable - or sympathetic - it would make his death in S3 (:)) much more emotional.

I think either way, it is quite a small role. He has a nice death scene but except for a few angry scenes its not as fun as Oberyn or even the Halfhand.

I think what I am suggesting is to increase the role from what it was in the books. In order to increase our knowledge of the northmen, to give Cat a dramatic foil - because what she does is exactly the opposite of what Karstark does, and to give Jaime something to do.

Maybe a 6/7 episode part?

[red snow]

I think we'll get a lot more scenes of him being questioned by various characters, plus they can build up his attempted escape a lot more in season 2. I suspect if he proves a hit with the fans he will remain shirtless and chained up throughout the season.

Regardless of how much we see of him, the actor can take comfort in the fact that his frank exchange with Catelyn should be one of the strongest scenes in the 2nd season. It was that scene in the books that made me go from thinking he was a run of the mill villain to being someone I respectfully hate as it takes balls to admit that kind of shit while chained up.