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Changes you wouldn't mind.

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I don't think anything needs to be removed. The only complaints I have so far is on the stuff they have already changed. GRRM has given HBO what I believe to be the perfect material for a TV show, so no changes are necessary, plot-wise. The only reason why they should ever cut something, in my opinion, is if they are incapable of filming it right.

I think some things should be changed for the series. Even disregarding budgetary limitations and so forth, some things in the book probably should be toned down; seeing something on a TV show is much more immediate than reading about it in a book, so D & D don't have to go as far to achieve the same effect. If the actor who plays Viserys is skilled enough, for example, we don't need to see him twisting her nipples to make it clear what a fucked up dynamic they have.

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I think you guys are going to be disappointed in the series if you hold it in such high standards. Cuts will be made for multiple reasons:

1. to simplify the story

2. time constraints

3. money constraints (ie cut out a lot of minor characters, of which this series has tons of)

I expect that any non-crucial subplot will be removed. I would actually be surprised if Lady Hornwood has much of a story at all in the show.

I'll be really sad if they don't do the House of the Undying though :(

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I would actually be surprised if Lady Hornwood has much of a story at all in the show.

She doesn't have much of a story in the book. What's there could probably be handled in ten minutes of screen time over several episodes.

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I think you guys are going to be disappointed in the series if you hold it in such high standards. Cuts will be made for multiple reasons:

1. to simplify the story

2. time constraints

3. money constraints (ie cut out a lot of minor characters, of which this series has tons of)

I expect that any non-crucial subplot will be removed. I would actually be surprised if Lady Hornwood has much of a story at all in the show.

I'll be really sad if they don't do the House of the Undying though :(

Yeah and I'm fine with it. As much as I love the books, I guess I don't see an adaption as needing to hold his books to strict canon. I guess it has annoyed me in the past when changes have been made that didn't make sense, but with this because I know the source material so well I might be open to a few surprises.

I guess where I stand is I hope that the show doesn't make me look like an idiot to all my friends that I've been preaching to about the books. If it makes me look good for pushing them for so many years, I'll be happy - regardless of how strict or loose of an adaptation it is. :)

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She doesn't have much of a story in the book. What's there could probably be handled in ten minutes of screen time over several episodes.

Yup. She doesn't have to appear in the TV show unlike in the books. But she can still be kidnapped etc. Its a very easy way to introduce Reek/BoB, who are pretty much essential.

Some changes I wouldn't mind:

* Cutting the Three-Eyed Crow entirely, and coming up with a better way to provide exposition regarding Bran's development of his warging skill. Perhaps Old Nan can just tell him.

The best people to introduce the warg story is the Reeds but I don't think the show can wait till S2 to introduce that element of the series. Not sure how Old Nan could work instead though, without changing her hugely. An important point regarding the 3 eyed crow is that it gives the reader/viewer some hope for Bran. He is not just a poor paralysed boy. He has a purpose. So I see the TV series at least hinting at that early on. I've no idea how they will do it because as people have said, its a tricky thing to put on screeen. The Reeds can expand that story in any S2 anyhow.

Rather than combining Amory Lorch with Gregor, i'd be tempted to make Amory one of Gregor's men. Gregor is going to need a few for S2 after all. So why not keep one of the most prominent? That way he still exists. He can still have killed Aegon etc.

I'm not sure of removing the House of Undying either. We'll know a lot more after seeing S1. If they cut out nearly all the prophecies/flashbacks then it probably will fall too. But it is Dany's key chapter in aCoK. They'll have to replace it with something big. And I do think the House of Undying can work in some form.

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Didn't I read somewhere that they're fleshing out the Osha character? Maybe she could be Bran's spirit guide. :dunno:

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So they'll just dump Rickon, the infant, all alone to make his own way in the world. Seems like a reasonable and responsible decision; I heartily approve of this. I can't imagine Bran talking to Rickon about this in too much detail. "So, Rickon, I guess I'll be hanging onto Meera, Jojen, Hodor, and Osha. Wait, can I borrow Shaggydog too? Sure, I'll have him back as soon as I see you again. You know, if you survive."

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Bran has plenty of crow dreams before Winterfell is sacked, and their party separates. If all of them are exchanged with "lessons" and cryptic hints from Osha, he'd have a good starting point.

Not sure I'd like the switch anyway, really. It's annoying when someone needs a mentor/teacher, and they have to be all cryptic and shit to stretch the plot, and the two are almost never in the same room. Just sit down and do it already! If it actually is important that you learn this, clear your fucking schedule! :tantrum: *

I think they'll keep the crow, mostly because they are showing crows and ravens in the intro, IIRC, and in the trailer/teaser, more or less to make the audience accustomed to them.

*This annoys me with Dany and Barristan Selmy as well. I get that her day is quite busy, but she should have pumped him for info on her family the moment she found out who he was. :bang: I get that she's scared of what she'll find out and all that pish, but letting a little trepidation get in the way of vital information that can have a massive influence on the rest of your life, and most any decision you make thereafter...

[\rant]

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Why? What about her family is going to lead her to change her mind?

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So they'll just dump Rickon, the infant, all alone to make his own way in the world. Seems like a reasonable and responsible decision; I heartily approve of this. I can't imagine Bran talking to Rickon about this in too much detail. "So, Rickon, I guess I'll be hanging onto Meera, Jojen, Hodor, and Osha. Wait, can I borrow Shaggydog too? Sure, I'll have him back as soon as I see you again. You know, if you survive."

:lol:

lacuna, I meant that if Osha is Bran's mentor then she would go with him. That's the main reason that the Reeds go with him (because Jojen is helping Bran). It crossed my mind before that they may drop the Reeds but that causes a lot of difficulty.

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Why? What about her family is going to lead her to change her mind?

Not necessarily change her mind, I said it would probably influence her way of thinking - how to judge past occurrences, and how to treat other characters she may have to interact with later. Depending on what happens in later books, her not knowing the real causes of the Rebellion, and what happened further on, could cause trouble for her. It's hard to speculate specifics when I don't know what's going to happen.

Anyway, examples that spring to mind are: Rickard and Brandon Stark's executions, the ostensible kidnapping of Lyanna*, and the demand for Robert's and Ned's heads as well - in my view, at least, these gave Ned, Robert and Jon a morally legitimate reason to rebel. Perhaps not seize power, but certainly to depose Aerys. Furthermore, Viserys (and Jorah) portrayed the Lannisters as "Robert's dogs", which isn't strictly true - conceivably laying the deaths of Rhaenys, Aegon and Elia at Robert's feet. Robert didn't lament the deaths of Elia's children, but I don't think he would have had them killed as long as Ned and Jon were around. In any case, they would have made better hostages.**

Her quest for the Iron Throne is based on Robert being a usurper and a child murderer, who has been sending assassins after her and her brother since she was born. Barristan was in the Small Council, and would know that Jon never allowed Robert to send assassins after her and Viserys when she was a kid. And he would have known that Ned resigned as Hand when Robert decided to place a bounty on Dany's head, and that the bounty was soon rescinded. (Though that would hardly make her more sympathetic towards Robert...)

I think knowing this would change a lot, at least it would if it were me. I don't know if she ever reflects on why the Rebellion occurred. She just seems to assume that Lannisters, Starks and Baratheons are of the 'black' in a black-and-white world.

*She thinks of Rhaegar's death that he died for the woman he loved. I can't remember if she ever expands on that, but you must at least give me that Lyanna's disappearance could be construed as kidnapping by someone neutral or on the other side, and since she was betrothed already, there had to be ramifications.

**Not all of this is known to either Jorah or Barristan, but there are ways of finding out, other avenues to explore. To find a maester would be the ultimate solution given the circumstances, one with a copper ring on his chain. Though she wouldn't get every piece to the puzzle from that either.

This is all very, very far off topic. Maybe make a new thread?

Edit for clarity.

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Not necessarily change her mind, I said it would probably influence her way of thinking - how to judge past occurrences, and how to treat other characters she may have to interact with later. Depending on what happens in later books, her not knowing the real causes of the Rebellion, and what happened further on, could cause trouble for her. It's hard to speculate specifics when I don't know what's going to happen.

The expectation is that she and Barristan would have a heart to heart before she deals with the consequences of Rhaegar's and Aerys actions. She knows that she has been given a biased version previously. That's all she needs to know in Meereen.

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The expectation is that she and Barristan would have a heart to heart before she deals with the consequences of Rhaegar's and Aerys actions. She knows that she has been given a biased version previously. That's all she needs to know in Meereen.

Well, it wouldn't have been enough for me, hence the :bang: .

;)

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It occurred to me that they could possibly combine the Reed kids into one character if they wanted to try and simplify things a bit. I think an older Jojen that has more hunting prowess could work, or they can go with Meera and give her Jojen's green dreams. Of course this depends on what plans GRRM has for them in later books. I don't necessarily want them to do this, but I don't think I'd mind it very much.

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It occurred to me that they could possibly combine the Reed kids into one character if they wanted to try and simplify things a bit.

Fair point. Nothing has happened so far to prevent the Reeds been combined into 1. And there are just so many characters in aCoK. If they did combine the 2, i'd guess they'd keep Meera, just to keep up the the male-female ratio. OTOH, they'd want to differentiate her from Osha.

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They have. Lommy Greenhands as well. They will be introduced towards the end of the first season.

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Right. When they give Arya her full gang (Gendry, Lommy and Hot Pie), its not hard to imagine that they'd give Bran both Reeds. Its all very impressive. What a cast.

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