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Changes you wouldn't mind.

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A few less Tyrion x Shae scenes in aSoS would be nice. I know it's important to his character that he sleep with her, BUT I think the sheer quantity of these scenes compared to any other type of sex scene was very out of proportion. Plus they are icky to me simply because of the power dynamics/lying/etc.

What else... get rid of the Tyrion is an acrobat bit...

Allow the characters to age with the show such that the kids are almost grown up by the time the show ends (not that this can really be stopped anyway). Yay, the 5 year gap is back baby! :)

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I don't think we need to see much of the actual sex between Tyrion and Shae, but I do think it's important to see that most of their interactions revolve around sex. It emphasizes that Shae is a whore, this is her job, and also shows us how Tyrion could let himself become deluded as to the nature of their relationship. She's the only one he really opens up to or can be himself around and she accepts him (or at least his money). So they could cut the sex, but keep the pillow talk aspect.

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HBO cut the sex? I've not watched much HBO admittedly, but from I've heard it's more likely they'd try to find ways to add more, no? ;) Not that I'm THAT keen on seeing the sex, but I do think it's important for both characters' development and the plot to see at least some of it.

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I think they may simply be making her pregnancy earlier than in the novel, or alternatively she's just supposed to be one of those women who barely shows.

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I'm wondering how we each define a sex scene. To me, anything that is photographed to imply that two people are actively engaged in making the beast with two backs counts. Tyrion and Tysha reclining on a bed (or dragon skull :P) with her boobs hanging out wouldn't. It's scenes like the later that I think they could use more to imply a lot of sex going on while not actively focusing on it.

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There are plenty of ways that they could disguise her as a boy. A hair cut isn't necessarily needed since boys can have longer hair in this setting anyway.

Either way the disguise doesn't have to be great. As long as she generally resembles a boy (even if she just wore boyish clothing) it would work for the show. As long as the intent is clear, it doesn't really matter if the disguise is convincing or not since we'll all know she's a girl anyway and you can reasonably suspend belief that the characters in the story wouldn't.

Well, okay, and I guess is that this is what they'll do. But then again in the books, Arya looks so much like a boy that she is almost always taken for one, even when dressed in not explicitly male clothing. Maisie doesn't look like a boy, so I think I will struggle to suspend disbelief that other characters think she is one. So it will be interesting to see how they handle the whole thing.

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Well, okay, and I guess is that this is what they'll do. But then again in the books, Arya looks so much like a boy that she is almost always taken for one, even when dressed in not explicitly male clothing. Maisie doesn't look like a boy, so I think I will struggle to suspend disbelief that other characters think she is one. So it will be interesting to see how they handle the whole thing.

It is pretty hard to look at that little girl and think "Maisie Horseface". She is too pretty for that.

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They could just give her a hair cut and have her wear overalls.

I also wouldn't mind them adding in some scenes with Robb for ACOK, he's not in it a whole lot iirc, i would like the see him planning the battles. Aslo would not mind more Jaime, since we only see him at the end of ACOK.

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It is pretty hard to look at that little girl and think "Maisie Horseface". She is too pretty for that.

Indeed. She still manages to look like Arya to me, but still the fact that she doesn't look like the horsefaced boy described in the novels may mean they have to make changes to the story; I think it will have a bigger affect than Tyrion being too handsome as well. Not that I think it matters overmuch - this is the changes we don't mind thread after all.

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Indeed. She still manages to look like Arya to me, but still the fact that she doesn't look like the horsefaced boy described in the novels may mean they have to make changes to the story; I think it will have a bigger affect than Tyrion being too handsome as well. Not that I think it matters overmuch - this is the changes we don't mind thread after all.

I'd be more annoyed if they made changes to her personality then her appearance, if they made her wear dresses all the time, then i would be way more annoyed then if the person playing her doesn't look like she is described.

I always imagined Tyrion not being entirely ugly pre-nosejob, just thought of that way because of his handicap.

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I'd be more annoyed if they made changes to her personality then her appearance, if they made her wear dresses all the time, then i would be way more annoyed then if the person playing her doesn't look like she is described.

I always imagined Tyrion not being entirely ugly pre-nosejob, just thought of that way because of his handicap.

Well, yeah, of course all of us fans prefer changes to appearance than to characterisation. My only point is that because Maisie doesn't look exactly as Arya is described, the writers either face some work adapting her story, or they risk it being unconvincing (no matter what she wears or how short her hair is, I think I will have trouble believing that people take her for a boy)

I agree on Tyrion as well, but I don't think it's really valid based on the text - even allowing for prejudice against him, he's still described as ugly. But like you, I don't really think this matters, because the main point is that he isn't taken seriously because of his size, regardless of what his face looks like.

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Not that I think it matters overmuch - this is the changes we don't mind thread after all.

Yes. Even if she doesn't look like a boy, she is still heading off with Yoren and the recruits. So its making no difference to the overall story. Either they are still pretending that she is a recruit or Yoren has hired a few servants for the trip. I don't think i'll care if they do pretend she is a boy though.

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I agree on Tyrion as well, but I don't think it's really valid based on the text - even allowing for prejudice against him, he's still described as ugly. But like you, I don't really think this matters, because the main point is that he isn't taken seriously because of his size, regardless of what his face looks like.

I've always gotten the impression that Tyrion is regarded as ugly in the series simply because he's a dwarf. It is used as such a derogatory term I'm pretty sure the citizens of Westeros would always refer to a dwarf as ugly.

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Well, yeah, of course all of us fans prefer changes to appearance than to characterisation. My only point is that because Maisie doesn't look exactly as Arya is described, the writers either face some work adapting her story, or they risk it being unconvincing (no matter what she wears or how short her hair is, I think I will have trouble believing that people take her for a boy)

I don't see the problem here. Kids under the age of 10 are quite androgynous. 90% of what differentiates little kids is culture, not appearance. That is, hair length, mannerisms, clothing, and the name (which is usually gendered). The other 10% is variation in how pretty vs. rugged they look, but until hormones, this makes VERY little difference in the gender we perceive.

Arya can easily be mistaken for a boy as long as she puts on the uniform. I was a tomboy and wore boyclothes as a little girl and kids would ask me if I was a boy or a girl. This wasn't because I was exceptionally unattractive or masculine looking - it was because I had chosen to take on the cultural male trappings (short hair, no skirt, etc).

I always assumed Arya talking about being "horsefaced" and therefore ugly was insecurity about her femininity and not really anything real. Plus, a bit of pride - she was happy to have an excuse reject the "girly" stuff that she didn't like anyway.

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I always imagined Tyrion not being entirely ugly pre-nosejob, just thought of that way because of his handicap.

You are free to imagine that, but it is not consistent with the text.

Tyrion Lannister, the youngest of Lord Tywin’s brood and by far the ugliest. All

that the gods had given to Cersei and Jaime, they had denied Tyrion. He was a

dwarf, half his brother’s height, struggling to keep pace on stunted legs. His

head was too large for his body, with a brute’s squashed-in face beneath a

swollen shelf of brow. One green eye and one black one peered out from under a

lank fall of hair so blond it seemed white.

This is Jon Snow, not Sansa. He doesn't normally go out of his way to decide who is handsome and who is not (save mayhaps one night at Castle Black when Dareon was looking mighty fine - thankfully GRRM spared us the details on that one). Squashed-in face and swollen brow are pretty damned ugly.

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Squashed-in face and swollen brow are pretty damned ugly.

Depends on how extreme we're talking about. Most people with achondroplasia (the most common type of dwarfism) have a disproportionately large head, small skull base, and prominent brow, giving the face a characteristic look that you could describe as "squashed" to some degree. You can even see this a bit in Peter Dinklage even though he's clearly pretty handsome.

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Depends on how extreme we're talking about. Most people with achondroplasia (the most common type of dwarfism) have a disproportionately large head, small skull base, and prominent brow, giving the face a characteristic look that you could describe as "squashed" to some degree. You can even see this a bit in Peter Dinklage even though he's clearly pretty handsome.

Yeah that's how I took it, or at least, accepted it. Even the best looking dwarf on the planet (Dinklage) still has those features, just to a lesser degree.

He's handsome, yes. I don't think it changes the story. If he was 5 feet tall instead of 3? Then I might see something worth griping about.

I think it's quite interesting how people are so invested in the appearance of the characters. I think a lot of folks invested a great deal into the "ugliness" of some and the "legendary beauty" of others. When casting a TV show with real people (with talent and in some cases, respectable resumes) there are greater constraints. Personally I think the casting has been absolutely top notch and in the right direction. I think sometimes that Nina Gold has my dream job.

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I've always gotten the impression that Tyrion is regarded as ugly in the series simply because he's a dwarf. It is used as such a derogatory term I'm pretty sure the citizens of Westeros would always refer to a dwarf as ugly.

Probably true, but I agree with Bronn - tyrion is being dscribed as a dwarf and as being ugly

I don't see the problem here. Kids under the age of 10 are quite androgynous. 90% of what differentiates little kids is culture, not appearance. That is, hair length, mannerisms, clothing, and the name (which is usually gendered). The other 10% is variation in how pretty vs. rugged they look, but until hormones, this makes VERY little difference in the gender we perceive.

You say that and it is probably true in a lot of cases. My issue came because I tried looking at just Maisie's face, ignoring her hair and clothes and she still looked decidedly female to me. Maybe they can get away with it, but I think I will have problems with suspension of disbelief if they try to get everyone thinking she's a boy.

Yeah that's how I took it, or at least, accepted it. Even the best looking dwarf on the planet (Dinklage) still has those features, just to a lesser degree.

He's handsome, yes. I don't think it changes the story. If he was 5 feet tall instead of 3? Then I might see something worth griping about.

I think it's quite interesting how people are so invested in the appearance of the characters. I think a lot of folks invested a great deal into the "ugliness" of some and the "legendary beauty" of others. When casting a TV show with real people (with talent and in some cases, respectable resumes) there are greater constraints. Personally I think the casting has been absolutely top notch and in the right direction. I think sometimes that Nina Gold has my dream job.

I think everyone on this thread agrees with you; I haven't come across anyone who thinks Tyrion being too handsome is that big a deal, and I certainly don't think Maisie's appearance is problematic. Everyone knows they have to cast real people; you don't need to point this out.

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Probably true, but I agree with Bronn - tyrion is being dscribed as a dwarf and as being ugly

You say that and it is probably true in a lot of cases. My issue came because I tried looking at just Maisie's face, ignoring her hair and clothes and she still looked decidedly female to me. Maybe they can get away with it, but I think I will have problems with suspension of disbelief if they try to get everyone thinking she's a boy.

I think everyone on this thread agrees with you; I haven't come across anyone who thinks Tyrion being too handsome is that big a deal, and I certainly don't think Maisie's appearance is problematic. Everyone knows they have to cast real people; you don't need to point this out.

Judging by the comments on this forum, on WIC and other sites, some people DO have a problem with the casting and make-up. Plenty of people have stated that Dinklage should be made uglier, or that certain actors are too good looking, or that the Hounds scars aren't big enough, or that certain actors aren't good looking enough or that Robert isn't tall enough or that unbelievably, Conan Stevens is not tall enough, or that the dogs aren't big enough, or that Sansa is too tall, or all these things that the believe aren't true enough to the text, or sometimes, their own image. I'm not imagining this, so apparently it is a point of contention. Is it everyone? Absolutely not. It is most likely a very vocal minority. That doesn't mean it is any less valid to point out that some people have unrealistic expectations out of the cast, set design, effects and makeup.

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My biggest concern with the series is that they're going to tone down the ignorance and bigotry of the people of Westeros for the sake of being politically correct enough to appeal to American audiences. Women, dwarfs, fat people and people of low birth are all treated more or less like trash by the dominant males of the series.

I'm worried that a lot of the Tyrion bashing will be significantly played down at the very least.

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