What's Wrong With Our Youth?

[Cantabile]

That man is proof that reality is often far more fucked up than fiction.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

This isn't universal, but in my circle, the pejorative use of "gay" implies (a) some degree of emasculation and nebbishness, (B) some effemininity © overly peppy and saccherine . For example, this song may fit the first definition while

fits the second and

is the third. Of course to some degree all three songs fit all three definitions. A good rule of thumb is that "gay" is something J.D. would like.

[Cantabile]

I'll save my rant on "emasculation" for another day. This will be my 45th post today. :eek: Time to call it quits and head to bed with the wife.

[TrueMetis]

To me intelligence in speech is manifested in one's eloquence. "Gay" is simply not as intelligent as many other options, because it lacks specificness and complexity of expression. If one says "This song is gay" what do they mean? Because when people make statements like that, I don't think anyone really knows what they mean, because 'gay' is simply a general pejorative. Is gay in that instance synonymous with "cool" and expressing that the song does not fit the criteria for the hearer's norms of music? Is it synonymous with "tasteless"? "Horrid"? "Bad"? All the words it could mean have variations in meaning and intensity, all of which is completely lost if someone says "gay"

Context sensitive, and person and place sensitive. To tell you what the person meant I would need to know the tone, a bit about the person, and a few other things.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting that if we normalize the terms enough they will no longer carry offense and that's a good thing? Another word would simply take it's place for expressing homophobia. As long as there's a sentiment, there'll be words to express that sentiment.

Not necessarily good just natural, fuck hasn't always been around it replaced a word that is no longer used. Some offensive words have more staying power than others but all eventually stop being used.

[Ski the Swift]

I understand where you're coming from with the parent's responsibility, but I just see too many variables being involved to lay sole responsibility on the parents. While it's great for a parent to be involved and check up on their kid, there are always times that the parent cannot be a watchdog, such as when the kids are at school, speaking in private, etc.

Since we have a sociologist in the thread they can elaborate more on this, but one of the incredible (for better or worse) things about the past century, is that the primary agents of socialization are changing from what they've been historically. Children spend more time receiving their socialization from media than they do from their actual immediate family in most American homes.

This is a giant cop out for lazy parents looking for an excuse. This shouldn't be "What is wrong with today's youth?" but more "What is wrong with today's people?". It just seems that those with the responsibilities don't want to take some slack for their own choices and actions. It's too hard for them to raise their child, so they blame the childs friends, or the media or education. Blame everyone but themselves.

I call bullshit.

[Ski the Swift]

Ps: Cantabile, change your avatar to Mr Wilson from Dennis the Menace.

[Salome the Persian Witch]

I want a bit of clarification on the woodshed thing. "Taken behind the woodshed", i.e. to be given a beating, is a fairly common phrase. If "and drop the pants" was appended... well, I can't say I've ever heard that before, and honestly I'd probably come to the same conclusion re: forcible sodomy that Annelise did.

Well... I hate to offer another explanation as I find either rather repulsive - but it was very common in my family that you had to pull your pants down to get a spanking. That way the spanking hurt way more. It's my understanding that caveat was quite common in many families as punishment, especially in older generations. Being as generous as I possibly can to that announcer, perhaps he was stating that the punishment hurt more.

Regardless, thanks for bringing the subject up - now with therapy I'll only be slightly scarred by the repressed memories! :bawl:

:P

[Darkostar]

Oh, so this is one of those threads were we use outliers to prove points, eh?

The average age of a KKK member is 57.

[Old Nan]

What's the average age of a Rolling Stones member?

[Zap Rowsdower]

Too much mollycoddling and not enough cruelty towards children when they are younger.

Spare the rod and spoil the child.

[Spastic Plastic]

I also came to the conclusion about anal rape when I heard "taken behind the woodshed and drop the pants".

Well, the Wikipedo article does mention "acid-filled vats" and a human heart in the freezer, but nothing specifically about canning.

Jeffrey Dahmer...what a fucking amateur. Ed Gein is my man.

[Balefont]

It's not intentional. Sometimes there'll simply be multiple people I'm trying to respond to, and I lose track of who I need to reply to still, so if you catch me ignoring a response please just point it out and I'll hop on it.

Will do. Whether or not its intentional, I just wanted to point it out. It seems the posts you often "miss" are those that specifically address the issue at hand in a manner which confronts or is in conflict with your views OR gives you just the weak argument against your points that you're looking for. Which in turn leads myself and I'm sure some others to wonder whether or not you are really seeking a discussion or are looking for a soap box opportunity.

Anyhow,

I understand where you're coming from with the parent's responsibility, but I just see too many variables being involved to lay sole responsibility on the parents. While it's great for a parent to be involved and check up on their kid, there are always times that the parent cannot be a watchdog, such as when the kids are at school, speaking in private, etc.

True, but I think you are dismissing the parents' role in this far too lightly. Or perhaps, your thread title is a bit off the mark and misleading. You're asking about what is wrong with our youth and then your OP focuses on youth today. Maybe what you're really after is a discussion about vulgar and derogatory language rather than <shakes cane> those damn kids on your lawn.

I remember my generation, a whole generation ago, where we used plenty of insulting and derogatory language as teens. While I never jumped on the "gay" or "nigger" bandwagon* (*to which I attribute my good upbringing), I did cuss (and still do for that matter). Most kids did at some point or another in certain company or even in public. I don't think this is anything different today as it was 20 years ago. The words may have changed (although it appears many are still around) but the teens are still doing it. Not all perhaps, but enough.

My point is, there is little difference between the lack of respect and manners of teens today vs. teens 20 years ago. So perhaps the focus should not be solely on kids today but on teens, throughout the generations, in general. Peer pressure is ever present, for teens, young adults, adults, etc.

Or better, as things seemed to be heading in this thread, the discussion should move away from teens using this language and instead revolve around the use of the language in general.

Since we have a sociologist in the thread they can elaborate more on this, but one of the incredible (for better or worse) things about the past century, is that the primary agents of socialization are changing from what they've been historically. Children spend more time receiving their socialization from media than they do from their actual immediate family in most American homes.

True, but I think it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other. There are plenty of poor parents out there who not only are not involved with their kids to the extent they need to be but also pass on their misogyny, their prejudices and bigotry from early childhood development and beyond. And these kids, like adults, will seek others like themselves as will their adult counterparts. In contrast, with media, the kids have more of an opportunity to be exposed to a 'PC society' for lack of a better term.

I have discussions at home about the word "gay" being used as an insult. My daughter is often bullied being called "gay" or "homosexual" because she doesn't wear skinny jeans and Uggs but rather Black Ops T-shirts, Grenade jackets, camo hoodie, and black and white Chucks. (This is her outfit today, in fact.)

We talk about how it shouldn't be an insult (we have several gay family members, on both sides, girls and guys a like - it's normal to her and always has been). Then we talk about how rotten it is that people use it as an insult. And then we talk about not using that language ourselves and how to diffuse the insults and stick up for others that are getting bullied as well.

I refuse to raise a shithead.

[Balefont]

This is a giant cop out for lazy parents looking for an excuse. This shouldn't be "What is wrong with today's youth?" but more "What is wrong with today's people?". It just seems that those with the responsibilities don't want to take some slack for their own choices and actions. It's too hard for them to raise their child, so they blame the childs friends, or the media or education. Blame everyone but themselves.

I call bullshit.

<3

[kungtotte]

Your daughter likes Call of Duty: Black Ops? You need to get on that shit before she's irreparably damaged. I recommend a dose of Bad Company 2 STAT.

[Balefont]

Your daughter likes Call of Duty: Black Ops? You need to get on that shit before she's irreparably damaged. I recommend a dose of Bad Company 2 STAT.

hahaha, yeah. Okay, will do. (She started playing Halo at 8 years old and it's been this way ever since. ;) )

[The Boar of Gore]

I find the word 'bitch' much more offensive than some young people seem to. They'll say things like 'What a bitch!' just because some girl seemed disinclined to talk to them, and it really makes me uncomfortable.

[kungtotte]

'Bitch' in all its incarnations or just the "what a bitch" kind? I'm asking because I tend to say "Son of a bitch" a lot :s

[Old Nan]

Are you black? Because I think that's another word black people have reappropriated. It might be racist to say it's sexist.

[Cantabile]

Are you black? Because I think that's another word black people have reappropriated. It might be racist to say it's sexist.

Black culture is responsible for the widespread use of "bitch"? That's not something I ever noticed. According to Wikipedia the word originally meant "high sexual desire in a woman" by means of comparison to a dog in heat.

For the record, I am also highly opposed to "bitch" when it refers to men, as its implication is that a man is subordinate and weak-willed. Women are no such thing, and to use a term for women to mean "subordinate" is about as sexist as you can get. I do, however, use the word myself to describe women in some cases, but I do not use it lightly as the majority of people do. If I call a woman a bitch, it's usually because I think she's the lovechild of Satan, Stalin, and Hitler, after they engaged in a kinky threesome.

[Darkostar]

If I call a woman a bitch, it's usually because I think she's the lovechild of Satan, Stalin, and Hitler, after they engaged in a kinky threesome.

Oh, well then. Continue on, sir. No hypocrisy here, folks. Move along.