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Devastated by the...


crispy

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I am a bit off topic here, but many times when Robb and the RW come up, we make the same points: there is no singular protagonist in the series, and hey, we never had a POV from him anyway.

On the first point that's true there is no singular hero to be sure-if there are even heroes of any number might be debatable. However I feel no less attached to Robb just because we had no POV from him. in someways, it almost

makes it worse. I never had the chance to get in his head and truly find out how I felt about the poor chap. To me, I felt robbed (no pun intended) of getting to know a character that I was really looking forward to reading more of. I guess that's what "hurt" the most. I sometimes think GRRM writes his non POV's better than he does the POV's. see Kevan Lannister and Blackfish.

Damn that's deep brotha.

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Yeah, character "bonding" doesn't necessarily need POV chapters. Though I "let" Robb go long before the Red Wedding, simply because it was clear that he was pretty much done. And there wouldn't be a "golden handshake" for him, not by Martin.

I was sad because of the loss of Catelyn. I had grown somewhat fond of her lately, despite the Brienne and other nonsense. But I wasn't shocked. Martin made a good job of preparing me: The salt-and-bread, Roslin, GW, I was pretty sure there was something ugly going on.

But as for non-POV character bonding: I really like Melisandre and felt "cheated" if she'd die just like that. Therefore I understand what you mean with the Robb bonding thing ...

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I guess I'm just one of those who don't like the idea of invincible spells or prophesy. Too fatalistic for my taste. That's 1 reason I hope certain prophecies are disproved, much like Dany's unborn son's failed prophecy. I remember the House of Undying, and Dany spotting a man with the head of a wolf. Silly me, I thought that was a reference to Ned, who was the head Stark and also, dead.

Sigh.

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One interesting thing, I think, about prophecies, Dany, her son and the House of the Undying is that she actually saw a glimpse of a possible future in which Rhaego never died in her womb and he had become the Stallion. That's interesting, because it's a proof that there are no invicible prophecies or a fixed future. Rhaego wasn't supposed to die, but it happened, and thus Dany became the Prince that was Promised; but it could have went another way, and perhaps it did, in some alternate world.

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Also it's very unlikely that Mel's leech burning had anything to do with the three kings deaths - she almost certainly foresaw their deaths in the fires and pulled the leech stunt to rebuild Stannis' faith in her.

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I like that thought, Horza. OT, the only connect I could find with leeches was Bolton and while he was instrumental in the RW, he had naught to do with Joff or Renly.

Rinso, your words about alternate realities are spot on. What fun that could be! :) I know it isn't in the scope of this universe, but I like the idea of various realities being created via various choices.

On a serious note, choices defeating prophecies is a much more palatable route than immutable prophecy. I'd hope that a certain other prophecy that's been shoved down our throats in AFFC is disproved too (though in that case, I fear the subject has actually brought us closer to its fulfillment with her actions!).

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I like that thought, Horza. OT, the only connect I could find with leeches was Bolton and while he was instrumental in the RW, he had naught to do with Joff or Renly.

Rinso, your words about alternate realities are spot on. What fun that could be! :) I know it isn't in the scope of this universe, but I like the idea of various realities being created via various choices.

On a serious note, choices defeating prophecies is a much more palatable route than immutable prophecy. I'd hope that a certain other prophecy that's been shoved down our throats in AFFC is disproved too (though in that case, I fear the subject has actually brought us closer to its fulfillment with her actions!).

I really hope that this prophecy is fulfilled, over and over again!

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I am somewhat taken aback about this thread evolving mainly around Robb who I never really cared for at all. Instead I was really upset about losing Catelyn who indeed was always among my favorite POVs.

As for the Red Wedding itself: I was prepared for something bad to happen but certainly did not foresee a massacre. I remember being utterly mad for at least two days. ;)

And since this is my first post on these boards: Hello everyone :cheers:

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Yay! I'm always happy to see someone like Catelyn and her PoV. She always seems to get so much hate. I wasn't upset by the Red Wedding, despite losing some of my favorite characters in it, but I was surprised by it, and it made me really fall in love with these books even more.

Anyway, to the original poster, I definitely sympathize with your feelings, and I think Red Wedding is one of those events where all readers can really bond over whether it be from anger or just surprise and appreciation for GRRM's skill as an author.

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Rhaego was supposed to be the Stallion Who Mounts The World, not the Prince Who Was Promised. Had he lived, he would have become a Targaryen-Dothraki-conqueror, not the savior character Daenerys is now becoming. He would have been someone else. The real Prince, Daenerys, needed to sacrifice her own son to realize her own potential. Before Rhaego's death she only lived for her husband and her son, she did not intend to pursue her own claim or become herself a ruler/conqueror. But now with the dragons she is doing just this.

Losing Cat was also more devastating for me then losing Robb. That he was to go was clear when he was hit by these arrows, but Catelyn could have become a hostage. She could have survived. The apparent totality of the obliteration of the Starks as a House of political power and influence really got to me. They are all but destroyed right now, and they need more than a few accidents and happy coincidences to rise again. Sansa is in the best position for these, but technically Bran and Rickon are the next Lords of Winterfell.

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I remember the House of Undying, and Dany spotting a man with the head of a wolf.

And a haunch of mutton for a sceptre. That's when I knew Robb was doomed. I

Yay! I'm always happy to see someone like Catelyn and her PoV. She always seems to get so much hate. I wasn't upset by the Red Wedding, despite losing some of my favorite characters in it, but I was surprised by it, and it made me really fall in love with these books even more.

I liked her pov's too. I don't understand where so much hate comes from. It's more than simply not liking her character. But it's a seperate discussion, so let's not get into it here.

Anyway, to the original poster, I definitely sympathize with your feelings, and I think Red Wedding is one of those events where all readers can really bond over whether it be from anger or just surprise and appreciation for GRRM's skill as an author.

Yes, it was heartbreaking, but no other litary death has had such an impact on me as this one. That's kind of beautiful too, in a way.

For the op: stick with it. There may be more death in store for you (though nowhere near Killing Fields orders of magnitude), but it's worth it. If not for the rest of the series, ASOS also ties up a lot of loose ends in the final chapters, especially the Sansa ones.

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The apparent totality of the obliteration of the Starks as a House of political power and influence really got to me. They are all but destroyed right now, and they need more than a few accidents and happy coincidences to rise again.

Yes, me too. I remember being quite upset about that.

Sansa is in the best position for these, but technically Bran and Rickon are the next Lords of Winterfell./quote]

For some reason, I think it will be Rickon. I doubt Bran will eventuelly be the Lord of Winterfell. I don't really have argument for that, just a gut feeling.

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I just read this a couple weeks ago. I'm almost done with my first read of a Storm or Swords and that was so disapointing to have Cat & Rob die.

I unfortunately find it hard to stay away from this forum and others and was spoiled for it but it still was disapointing when it happened.

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I really can't see how people were shocked by this it was foreshadowed unto death in late ACOK & ASOS, I really felt the sword hanging over Robb here ever since Tywin beat Stannis on the Blackwater, and the hints just kept comming. However none of that stopped me from praying for some darring escape or to jump in book and worn our merry band. Needless to say I still felt devastated and remember reading those pages with dread. I also took a day off at that point.

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Just because someone is dead that doesn't mean that you can't treasure the time you spent with them in life. It doesn't even mean that you'll never see or hear from them again. Death isn't cheap in Westeros, but it's not always final either. Robb and Lady Catelyn may be as lifeless as stones, but in your heart they will live forever.

I see what you did there. :leaving:

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There really should be a series of Red Wedding reaction videos... somewhat similar to a 2 girls one cup reaction video. I hope the series is even more subtle with its hints, as they will be even more obvious on screen, IMO. I can't wait for people watching the series on TV to react to it for the first time, as I can watch it unfold.

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