Extended Trailer Screened to Critics

[Westeros]

At the Winter TCA tour, HBO has now screened the 15 minute extended trailer of Game of Thrones for journalists in the run-up to Friday’s thirty-minute presentation and various interviews with GRRM, the executive producers David Benioff and Dan Weiss, and actors Sean Bean, Peter Dinklage, and Emilia Clarke. Thanks to WiCnet, who’s fortunate enough to be on the scene, here’s a quick preliminary run-down of the scenes shown, in the order that they were shown:

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[Lady Blackfish]

To get my negativity out of the way, as well as to be the only one who'll be paying attention to Cat here, may I just say I really dislike that she is the homing voice from the get-go. Before Bran's fall, Cat was the one with the initiative and drive to want to go to King's Landing to investigate Jon Arryn's murder, and the ambition to marry her children up high. And even after Bran's fall, it was not about Ned leaving her so much as their child. Catelyn would never ever explicitly say "But you're leaving me", she's accustomed to waiting, her men always make her wait and she accepts it without complaint. I rather dislike how she's the one telling Ned from the first letter that he can stay home if he wants, as if because she's The Wife And Mom she has to play that role. If anyone is the natural homebody in the marriage, it's Ned. Blegh.

Other than that, I'm glad that the buzz is so positive and apart from my lingering distaste for Ned vs Jaime I'm liking a lot of what I'm reading.

[Ran]

I don't think you're the only one who pays attention to Catelyn....

You know, in all the rush of news and stuff, I'm a little scatter shot. Are we ever actually made privy to how Eddard and Catelyn interacted after Bran's fall? I can't quite recall an example, but maybe there is some thought or word from Catelyn or Ned about it.

If there isn't, though .. you know, the distraught Catelyn, it seems to me, could very well plead to Ned that he should stay for her sake (and Bran's as well). I don't see why she wouldn't. She was, as we're told, half out of her mind with grief -- her decorum would be all out of sorts.

Does someone say that when they get the letter, she's telling Ned he can just stay put? If you mean WiC's write up, I'm pretty sure that they were pasting together the two scenes. If you compare Catelyn in this photo, she's much more together than Catelyn in this one, and Ned's very clearly in different garments.

I think the extended trailer just put two different Catelyn scenes together, basically, and they have not changed Catelyn in the scene following the arrival of Lysa's letter at all.

[alguien]

I'm almost positive Catelyn pleaded with Ned to stay after Bran's fall. I'm pretty sure its in one of her POV chapters.

Something to the effect of "things were different now" and "of course he couldn't leave with things like this."

[Ran]

Ah-ha, that rang a bell. Can't believe I forgot it:

She had begged Ned not to go, not now, not after what had happened; everything had changed now, couldn't he see that? It was no use. He had no choice, he had told her, and then he left, choosing.

[Padraig]

I think the extended trailer just put two different Catelyn scenes together, basically, and they have not changed Catelyn in the scene following the arrival of Lysa's letter at all.

Right. I didn't notice that at the beginning but on re-reading it, it does seem very likely that they are 2 different scenes.

[Lady Blackfish]

After Bran's fall, yes she certainly did. But before Bran's fall, she was pushing him to be the Hand. But there is a part in the write-up that says that she tells Ned, when telling him of Robert's arrival in the godswood well before Bran's fall, that he can just say "No" (here it is: Cut back to Catelyn and Ned discussing in the godswood. Catelyn: “You can always say no, Ned.”). That doesn't seem like a similar reading to me? When Ned first tells Catelyn that he's going to refuse Robert, she's rather flummoxed and shocked that he would even entertain such a notion. She basically argues that it would be political suicide to say no.

Regarding the farewell, it's a technically possible interpretation of a scene that Martin left off screen in the books. But I do think it's against the spirit of the character. It would've made more sense to me if she pleaded for him to stay on behalf of their child, but it's a consistent trait of Catelyn's that she does not speak for herself or her needs and that's what makes her emotions so edgy as they often are. Is a scene like this technically possible? Sure, everyone has lapses, people aren't perfect algorithms of traits. But this is fiction and they have to establish personalities carefully early on, they won't be able to show us characters day in and day out so they have to select their moments wisely so it creates the right impression.

I think it's pretty clear from Catelyn's monologue that she is not a person who feels like it's okay to ask for emotional support for herself, she just feels bad on the inside but is stoic on the outside. And I actually think showing her swallowing those needs makes her lashing out at Jon later on a lot more logical, you can tell that she's a timebomb waiting to blow at that point.

This is also a line I can't see coming out of her mouth: “That’s what men always say when honor calls, that’s what you tell your families, tell yourselves.” Catelyn accepts the call of duty even when it is to her own detriment, she'd feel the emotional abandonment but I can't see her ever voicing it. It'd probably be fine if we had more of her at that point to understand that this is an atypical breakdown in her personality, but we'll be just getting to know her at this point, so I do wish they could have made some changes here. After all it'd be so very minor and not affect anything overarching.

[Ran]

I think it's pretty clear from Catelyn's monologue that she is not a person who feels like it's okay to ask for emotional support for herself,

Hrm. How is that true? She asks Ned not to take away Bran from her, after all. How isn't that a plea for emotional support? She certainly tries to maintain a stoic position, to not be an emotional dependent, and so on, but ... she's human.

Catelyn does and says a lot of things when she's mad with grief that she would not necessarily say or even believe, IMO.

As to the thing where she says he could say no, I think I'd like to see more context to the scene before making a decision. I agree with you that if she's seriously telling him that he could say no to being the Hand, well, that's not a change I'd be keen on. OTOH, could be delivered ... well, any number of ways, where it's not a serious suggestion, or put forward in a way that makes it plain she's dubious or considers it ridiculous.

[Lady Blackfish]

Ran, I find it really hard to see Catelyn saying "Choose me or duty to your king." If it was a choice between her child and the world at large, then yes. Children is always where Catelyn's behavior goes off the wheels, and it's easy to see her being angry that Ned would leave his child on his deathbed, but never about herself. Yes you're right that situations like that can bring out the atypical, but again, how will the viewer know that's atypical? They hardly know her at this point, and it seems smarter to me to begin to set up the habits that need to be established to enable people to understand her later moments, where she is often wishing only in her own head that she had someone and, even though she is a grieving widow with children missing or dead and her father dying of cancer and various family members in the thick of war, never asking for it. Not because she is emotionally dysfunctional, but because she is practical and accepting of reality and aware that the world outside needs her family "more" than she does. That is what makes her moments of willful self delusion about her children (no no Arya is not dead, no no Jon does not exist), and only her children, so notable, because they're so exceptional. Reading the series I always felt that nobody accepts reality as consistently and relentlessly as Catelyn, except for that one weak spot. And they have a limited amount of time to establish that without the help of monologue, and making this scene actually play out on screen is potentially a great way to do that, but I think we'd learn more useful things about her if we saw a stiffer upper lip. Or least see her plead on behalf of her child.

I don't see her asking to let Bran stay behind as quite the same, she is not asking for Ned to take himself away from his obligations there, merely to allow her child to remain because Bran's life isn't slave to obligations yet. And then it's when Ned points out that he was around Bran's age when he, the second son, was fostered away, and that Bran could be needed to repair ties between Robb and Joff, that she actually relents.

[Ran]

Difference of interpretation. Seems very clear to me that holding on to Bran was for her first and foremost, not for Bran:

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran.

She cites his age as a reason to Ned, because she can't tell him the real reason, that Bran's the child the speaks most to her heart. But she does back down, dutifully, despite it tearing her heart apart a bit. She recognizes she's being selfish.

The point is, she's shown to be perfectly capable of wanting to express the need and desire for emotional support, even in a selfish way. Now add her beloved, broken child, and the thing she wrought has come back to bite her: now Ned is leaving her and her son at this very moment when they need him most. She's not eaten or slept in days. She's going to say everything she can never bring herself to say normally, because that's what her pain drives her to do.

So ... I'm fine with the Catelyn scene we saw in the clip, and I'm fine with it because, well, I care about Catelyn as well but it falls in line with my own interpretation of her. It just seems very plausible. Look at everything else that's uncharacteristic of her after Bran's fall -- neglecting herself, her family, her duties, saying something terribly cruel that afterwards makes her feel shame for how she was and the way she acted -- and her demanding that for once Ned abandon duty to do something for her seems right in line with that.

Again, I'll agree on a little concern about the scene at the hearttree, but I'll wait to see just what they're discussing and the way the lines are delivered myself before judging. So far, though, it sounds like Fairley is playing Catelyn very much as how I imagined she should be played.

[About Yea High]

Just a quick note before I trundle off to bed, but I have to say the screening was fantastic. The scenes between Emilia and Harry were electric. When she drops the "You have no right to a braid," line, she hits it perfectly. I heard a collective breath being sucked in by the viewers.

Tyrion was great too. The breakfast scene at Winterfell where he sort of toys with Cersei and Jaime (the Morning After), interacts with Myrcella and Tommen... it felt like we were dropped right into the middle of a real-life family scene. Perfect.

George was in good spirits and clearly feeling better. I got to meet King Lodey of the BwB (an honor and pleasure), George's assistant Ty, Mo Ryan, and Mara from HBO.

Ran's name was dropped like nine times in different conversations. I feel like I'm the only person who hasn't met him yet.

Ran, you are beloved!

Yea

(FaBio)

[Ran]

Thanks for all your reporting! Good times, but exhausting, no? Felt much the same when I was running around Belfast without much chance to catch my breath. :)

Glad George is on the mend, I was worried the whole experience would set him back a bit due to tiredness.

Any thoughts on our conversation up thread? Namely the heart tree scene and just what Catelyn means when she tells Ned that he can say no? I'm wondering if what's happened is that they've decided to have Robert say in his letter that he means to make Ned Hand, which is a departure...

[Lady Blackfish]

Seems very clear to me that holding on to Bran was for her first and foremost, not for Bran

I don't debate that, of course it's for her, and of course she can express her needs when there is less than duty on the line, but to me an ultimatum like "choose between me and duty" seems out of character and I don't think that applies to her first appeal regarding Bran. And as I said, I do agree that this is a situation that can make people act out of character, but I also think it could create a less than desirable impression (I honestly feel we should get the sense that Catelyn is actually more duty-driven than Ned, and there's a limited time to establish that) too early and isn't exactly necessary either. I don't have an issue with Michelle Fairley, she's only reading the lines she's given.

Regarding the heart tree scene, we still have that image from the Starks bedroom where Ned is flanked by Cat and Luwin in the background, and at least based on imagery and body language I doubt that Ned isn't feeling pressured from all sides, so I doubt they've dropped the tension between Cat and Ned in that scene altogether. I did forget about that earlier and it just occurred to me now. I'm still having a difficult time envisioning a scene that makes her "You can always say no" mean anything more than the straightforward, given that they have to squeeze so much into that episode and a lot of it is going to be added material, but it might not be very consequential.

ETA: In the books it seemed like Ned already guessed the purpose of Robert's visit by the time he asks, so if he's talking about the offer in the heart tree scene, it's not that huge a change on Ned's part. I just think that "You can say no" is an odd thing for Catelyn to say in response.

By the way, when I said only I would care, I meant it more as a jibe at myself for being a little single-minded sometimes, given everything else that there is to comment on.

[About Yea High]

Any thoughts on our conversation up thread? Namely the heart tree scene and just what Catelyn means when she tells Ned that he can say no? I'm wondering if what's happened is that they've decided to have Robert say in his letter that he means to make Ned Hand, which is a departure...

It seemed clear to me there were two distinctly different Catelyn mindsets. In the godswood, she approaches Ned with concern for his reaction to the letter she has in hand, addressing him as "My love..."

Whereas her teary "You still have a choice but you've already made it" (paraphrased) statement clearly happens after Bran's fall. It seems to me she's really just sick with worry and lashing out. There's certainly blame affixed, but you get the feeling it's a little misplaced (sort of like with the iconic "It should have been you," line, which we still haven't seen yet). I don't think the onus should be on the words themselves so much as the fact that she's suddenly feeling very vulnerable. I would say she's not exactly choosing her words carefully.

But no, the letter did not seem to include any mention of the Hand title.

[So1ar]

Just a quick note before I trundle off to bed, but I have to say the screening was fantastic. The scenes between Emilia and Harry were electric. When she drops the "You have no right to a braid," line, she hits it perfectly. I heard a collective breath being sucked in by the viewers.

wait, i don't remember this scene. what does she mean by "you have not right to a braid"? i loaned out my copy of GoT to a friend so i can't look it up :(

[Ran]

So1ar,

Here's the scene from the books:

Viserys frowned suspiciously. "What is all this?"

"New raiment. I had it made for you." Dany smiled shyly.

He looked at her and sneered. "Dothraki rags. Do you presume to dress me now?"

"Please . . . you'll be cooler and more comfortable, and I thought . . . maybe if you dressed like them, the Dothraki--" Dany did not know how to say it without waking his dragon.

"Next you'll want to braid my hair."

"I'd never . . ." Why was he always so cruel? She had only wanted to help. "You have no right to a braid, you have won no victories yet."

[So1ar]

oh i forgot about that scene! thanks alot ran :)

[Sidereal]

I can see where Lady Blackfish is coming from about Catelyn, who I'm also a fan of. I don't have a firm opinion on Michelle Fairley as Catelyn yet. It's too early for that. But I'm worried and not very encouraged by a bunch of things. I fear they're making her character more cliched and taking away the interesting aspects that made me like her to begin with. We get a lot of POVs on Catelyn's character: Ned trusts and respects her as his life-partner, Arya longs to come back home to her, Sansa sees her as an example of strength, Robb sees her as a nagging and embarrassing presence (but still loves her), Lysa is jealous of her attractiveness, Littlefinger lusts after her and romanticizes her, and Jon sees her as a wicked stepmother. I am worried that Fairley's Catelyn reflects Robb's and Jon's POVs, but not the others. I might be wrong, and I hope I am. I don't plan to make up my mind about the show till I've seen it.

I don't like that they condensed the two Cat-Ned conversations into one. The first conversation I'm referring to is the one where Catelyn urges Ned to go to King's Landing. The second is the one after Bran's fall, referred to in the books but not actually described in detail, where Catelyn asks Ned to stay back instead. The movie apparently just shows Catelyn asking him to stay, not her asking him to go.

I think asking Ned to go is very important to Catelyn's character, at least as important as asking him to stay. She asks him to stay because of a very extreme and unusual situation (her favorite child nearly dying in a tragic accident). She asks him to go in a more ordinary circumstance, which involves a milder but still significant sacrifice. She is willing to leave home herself, and later (as the discussion goes on) to have him and Arya and Sansa leave her, for the sake of honor and duty and ambition. That's an important side to her character. If you just show her asking him to stay, then she looks like the stereotypical Emotional Mother who is just trying to be with her family and is motivated only by personal concerns. But Catelyn is also motivated by dynastic and political concerns, and leaving out the first conversation removes that from her character.

Unless they bring it back in some other context--like I said, it's still too early to tell. But I'm not encouraged by the other stuff that I've read and seen. I'm not encouraged by how weepy Michelle Fairley is in that scene. Lady Blackfish is right that Catelyn doesn't seek "emotional support" in that she doesn't ask people to comfort her. She asks Ned to DO something concrete (leave Bran with her) but she doesn't ask him to hold her, cry on his shoulder, etc. In fact when she's emotional she usually speaks "coolly" or "sharply." Even after Bran's fall, her response is to obsessively do things to watch or help Bran, even when she can't really do anything. Her response isn't to spend a lot of time crying. Jon even comments on how rare it is to see her cry.

I'm also not encouraged by the "earthy" description. I don't know what the critic meant by that, so I'm still hopeful, but 'earthy' suggests someone who is raw and simple and emotionally open and maybe a bit crude. Someone with stereotypical 'peasant' qualities, in other words. But Catelyn is very much an aristocrat, not just by birth but also in her behavior. She's cool, she's stoic, she's commanding, and she's usually either icily courteous or icily rude. "Earthy" can also mean practical, which Catelyn is, but it always suggests simple, homespun qualities, which mothers of many children also stereotypically have. I fear that if they portrayed Catelyn as 'earthy,' it's because they thought "well, she's the mother character, so we'll give her all the stereotypical 'mom' qualities." That's what I'm afraid of. A lot of Catelyn's more interesting traits don't fit into this 'mother' stereotype, and I'm worried they'll try to jam her into it anyway, to the story's detriment.

I'm also not thrilled about the critic saying that Fairley is "less warm" than Ehle. I've seen a lot of Ehle's performances and I think the 'warmth' he was referring to is a certain wry, energetic good-humor, not mushy gushy warmth. Which makes me suspect and fear that Fairley comes across as a joyless shrewish harridan (think Molly Weasley from the HP books in Howler-sending mode) in comparison. This part is pure speculation, of course.

So I can see Lady Blackfish's point. Catelyn is the character I'm most worried about, because in my opinion she's the one who least fits into a stereotypical genre-fantasy trope AND the one least likely to appeal to a young fanboy's imagination. I'm very confident they'll get Tyrion and Arya and Jaime right, even though those are complex characters, because they're more likely to appeal to fans of action and fantasy. But like I said, I'm still hopeful, if a bit discouraged. We don't know very much yet.

[Ran]

It is all very speculative, true.

I think that my own vision of Catelyn was not one where "wry, energetic good-humor" was a part of her makeup. So, different opinions. That said,

I don't like that they condensed the two Cat-Ned conversations into one.

They didn't condense them. They placed two separate scenes together in the extended reel, I think to show a hint of that storyline's development for critics. But it was very clear they were separate scenes, so ... one has to imagine all the stuff between them.

From what I can tell, we have Ned and Catelyn speaking in the godswood, and it seems that they've added to this scene an awareness from Cat and Ned that Robert means to make Ned his Hand (which, really, probably should have been the case in the actual book -- their apparent blindness to this possibiltiy until Robert makes the actual offer is curiously ignorant of them), but while we see Catelyn telling Ned he doesn't have to go, we don't really have context for what she actually means.

Then we have Catelyn and Ned discussing Lysa's message.

And then we have the scene at Bran's bedchamber where Ned is being asked to stay. This is their take on the scene that is mentioned in the books, as you say, where she begged Ned not to leave, that everything was different. As I said up-thread, I don't think it's anything but personal opinion as to whether Catelyn would have asked Ned to stay for her sake.

As to how Catelyn speaks when emotional, she's actually trembling when she asks Ned to let her keep Bran. Usually, one's voice because tremulous then. Ned would have heard it in her voice, so ... he knew what she was asking him.

[Sidereal]

When I said "wry, energetic good-humor" I was talking about Jennifer Ehle's usual acting style. Like you, Ran, I don't think it's a big part of Catelyn's character. But I don't think it contrasts with Catelyn's character either. I think it contrasts with someone who is joyless and tired. So when the critic contrasts JE with MF's vibe, it makes me worry they're portraying Catelyn as joyless and tired. I may be reading too much into that, though.

Is the debate over whether Cat asks Ned to stay for Bran or for Cat herself? If so, I think it's for both, but it's an extreme circumstance. I think the text suggests Cat wouldn't ordinarily ask Ned to give up honor/ambition just for her own emotional needs. That's not just speculation. Not only does she initially ask Ned to go, but she also stays with Robb though Bran and Rickon might need her emotionally more. Because Robb is where the political action is. So I think the books show us a Catelyn who is ordinarily unlikely to choose personal feeling over honor or ask Ned to do the same, but is driven to it in the extreme circumstance of her favorite child's near-death.

But that's not my real beef. My real beef is the contrast they seem to be drawing between Ned leaving for honor and Cat asking him to stay for love, and I think that's a one-sided and stereotypical view of her character. Initially she's the one seeing the potential for honor and political ambition in the Hand position, and Ned's the one who just wants to stay home. I hope we get to see some of that.

And of course Ned knew what Catelyn was asking him. I guess I wasn't clear. My point is Catelyn wasn't weepy about it. She may have been trembling, but the impression I still get is one of great emotion held in check, not let loose. I feel like that type of behavior is an important part of her character, and it doesn't look to me like Fairley is conveying that impression. YMMV, and of course we'll see for sure when it airs. I just think Catelyn will be one of the hardest characters to pull off well because of her non-genre trope quality.