Rane Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Well, opposition groups are generally against the peace agreement between Egypt and Israel. Supporting a regime that have oppressed them for the past few decades certainly doesn't help your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Lemme ask a question of the board - anyone know if the 'V' hand sign, what would be considered a 'peace sign' in the US means something different in the middle east? Cause whenever you look at pictures of riots and protests there are always a couple protesters standing there holding up that sign. Not just in Egypt, but you see it all over the world. It always makes me think... dude, you are at a riot, save the peace sign... pick up a rock or something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edda van Heefmstra Ruston Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 V for victory, as used in places like the UK? V-meaning-peace for relatively peaceful overthrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Was under bush.Agreed. Seems like a very minor case. I mean, they sent him to a conference, lolDates said 2008-2009 and indicated there was also pressure to release other dissidents and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 V for victory, as used in places like the UK? V-meaning-peace for relatively peaceful overthrow?That was my other thought as well - V for victory. Just wouldn't be my hand gesture of choice if I was participating in a riot. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edda van Heefmstra Ruston Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 OTOH, if I'm facing a guy with a tank, I might fight to stay where I am*, but I'm probably not going to be more provocative than I need to be!*Maybe. I'm an incredible wuss, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoadm Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Supporting a regime that have oppressed them for the past few decades certainly doesn't help your case.If I had to chose between a regime that supports my anihalation (or at the very least dismantling the peace agreement that has saved thousands of lives), versus an authoritarian regime that does the opposite, then I don't have the privelage of easy utopian choices as you do. Furthermore, there is no proof that the regime that replaces Mubarak will be any more democratic. Previous revolutions in the middle-east haven't given more civil liberties and simply replaced one authoritarian regime with another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padraig Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 `Recent` is subjective. Let's say in the last 50 years (you do know how long Democracy existed before that, right?)::lol: No...could you explain with pictures?I give you Iran (although you did originally ask for an Arab rising) but 1968 Iraq was just a typical coup d'etat. Hardly the kind of popular rising that has happened in Egypt so far. So for successful risings that led to democracy, we have 0/1 so far.Sometimes and sometimes not. Look at Tienanmen Square I accept that. But I don't think Egypt's current government will manage to follow that path, even if Mubarak survives this.If I had to chose between a regime that supports my anihalation (or at the very least dismantling the peace agreement that has saved thousands of lives), versus an authoritarian regime that does the oppositeAs I said, you are just delaying the inevitable. And next time there may be no question about how nasty the incoming rulers will be. I do understand why you would be worried but in the end you are going to have to make some sort of peace with all the people in Egypt. Not hide behind a few nasty generals. So bring it on and be thankful that it could be a lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoadm Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 As I said, you are just delaying the inevitable. And next time there may be no question about how nasty the incoming rulers will be. I do understand why you would be worried but in the end you are going to have to make some sort of peace with all the people in Egypt. Not hide behind a few nasty generals. So bring it on and be thankful that it could be a lot worse.You do understand that some regimes will not make peace with you no matter what (Iran, for instance)? Sometimes it's not up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsdale! Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Check this out.The bribe everybody theory of foreign policy in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padraig Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 You do understand that some regimes will not make peace with you no matter what (Iran, for instance)? Sometimes it's not up to you.Even Iran may change someday. Even Israel may change someday. As I said, I can understand worry but in the long term removing Mubarak now is best. The current situation is unsustainable. Better face the future than worry about it.Although, I honestly don't expect Mubarak to fall now. His regime will end eventually though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoadm Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Even Iran may change someday. Even Israel may change someday. As I said, I can understand worry but in the long term removing Mubarak now is best. The current situation is unsustainable. Better face the future than worry about it.Personal big brother advice doesn't allways work in international relations. You don't know what happens in 20 years, but a country hostile to you now is a present danger. Who knows, if Mubarak survives, his succesor might be more moderate, give more institutional, media, educational freedom to make the transition to democracy smoother. If I have to chose Mubarak or a fanatical regime (worst case) right now, I would chose Mubarak, no doubt about it. Adding one more fanatical country to the middle east right now is suicide, it can push the ME to the brink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Obama just gave his speech. Mostly what you'd expect. Not taking sides, condemning violence, there must be reform, will of the people must be enacted, give back the internet, US condemns human rights abuses, future of Egypt will be determined by Egypt's people, US committed to working with them to see it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 As I said, I can understand worry but in the long term removing Mubarak now is best. The current situation is unsustainable. Better face the future than worry about it.This is not obvious. After all, Saddam was quite a bit worse than Mubarak and look what happened after we got rid of him. Revolution always means rolling the dice and they're usually stacked against a good outcome for everyone except the small minority that comes to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 A good write-up on WTF is up with Egypt:http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/whats-happening-egypt-explained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 kick ass. knock the fuck out of the US client regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonblade Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If Obama doesn't in the end support these protesters I will lose all respect for the guy. Who knows? If Egypt sorts itself out the US might end up having an ally out of them anyway. If democracy truly comes to Egypt, no matter what government, then in the end it'll be good for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Has anyone seen this?(CNN) - GOP Conference chairman Thaddeus McCotter voiced his support for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak Friday in a statement released on his website.The Republican congressman from Michigan likened demonstrations in Egypt to "Iran's 1979 radical revolution." He cautions that those who "will be tempted to superficially interpret the Egyptian demonstrations as an uprising for populist democracy" should instead "recall how such similar initial views of the 1979 Iranian Revolution were belied by the mullahs' radical jackbooted murderers."McCotter, the chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee, called for America to back Egypt, stating, "Thus America must stand with her ally Egypt to preserve an imperfect government capable of reform; and prevent a tyrannical government capable of harm.My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If Egypt sorts itself out the US might end up having an ally out of them anyway. But we technically have an ally in Egypt now in Mubarak. Politically, its a big gamble to support the protesters. If Mubarak wiggles out of this and the POTUS is vocal in supporting the protesters... then Obama kind of looks like an asshole, doesn't he? I honestly think a 'wait and see' approach by any US administration is not out of line whatsoever. Especially after 8 years of Bush, as there were plenty of times I wished he'd kept his trap shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonious Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 McCotter, the chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee, called for America to back Egypt, stating, "Thus America must stand with her ally Egypt to preserve an imperfect government capable of reform; and prevent a tyrannical government capable of harm.I assume he voted against the Iraq war for similar reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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