The Middle-eastern riots

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

3) If people don't want us to launch attacks on their territory, they shouldn't harbor terrorist camps!

Really? We haven't learned this lesson yet?

I think Tunisia should reclaim the mantle of Carthage, and invade Sicily.

[Samalander]

But how many have blown themselves up? ;)

I would say the number is very close to, if not indeed, zero.

The Palestinians blowing themselves up are not Israeli citizens.

[Rane]

2) Israel has over one million Arab citizens. To date, not a single one of them has self-immolated. Make of that what you will.

So that's how we measure the happiness of our citizens? If they don't set themselves on fire, everything is fine? Good to know.

[Samalander]

So that's how we measure the happiness of our citizens? If they don't set themselves on fire, everything is fine? Good to know.

Well, it's a start... :dunno:

[Cantabile]

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=115372325200575

There is the so-called revolution, with 70,000 people saying they're going to participate. I was incorrect, it's scheduled for January 25th.

[Cantabile]

From what my Egyptian friends have told me it certainly seems like the country is long due for an overhaul. I just hope it works and doesn't backfire on everyone.

[All-for-Joffrey]

Assailed them? I think that's kind of strong wording for are usually empty threats. I mean, the woman goes over there to finalize arms (not to mention airplane) contracts with the Saudis.

Touche, but all the same I don't think I've ever seen a US figure bluntly call out the Arab autocracies on all their problems before, so at least it's a quasi-step in the right direction. Also, for the record, I don't think she ever threatened them, she merely pointed out their corruption to them at her speech in Doha.

[Lord of Oop North]

Or perhaps it's because Tunisia is not exactly a big player in the Middle Eastern scene? If this were happening in Syria, Saudi Arabia or Egypt I assume people would be paying far more attention? But given the potential ripple effect that this uprising could have on the region I still think some discussion would be warranted.

Because Tatooine is the armpit of the Outer Rim.

[Shryke]

Considering that neither the US nor Israel would be in the mood for a revolution in Egypt, I suspect it will have great difficulty.

Israel certainly not, but as long as the new regime makes overtures of being friendly enough with the West and isn't stupid enough to fuck with the Suez Canal, they may get left alone.

And while the Muslim Brotherhood wouldn't really be classified as "good" in the objective sense, they aren't that bad comparatively.

I'm not sure on what kind of support they'd have though. I remember reading that they are mostly older types and the younger folks aren't super keen on them. Not sure on that one though.

[Samalander]

Anything would be a whole hell of a lot better than what they have right now.

No, it wouldn't. Have you seen what the Taliban did in Afghanistan? Do you see what is happening in Iran? Giving religous fundies absolute political power is always the worst option:

1) They use it to enact ever strickter and crazier "religous" rules on the population, and enforce it with draconian measures.

2) They do not believe in Democracy. Once they have political power they never want to relinquish it, thus becoming worse tyrants than the corrupt bastards who came before them.

[Padraig]

No, it wouldn't. Have you seen what the Taliban did in Afghanistan?

But this presupposes that they are all the same. Afghanistan is different from Iran. Why shouldn't another country be different from both of them? Even the Turkish government has Islamic roots.

[Shryke]

No, it wouldn't. Have you seen what the Taliban did in Afghanistan? Do you see what is happening in Iran? Giving religous fundies absolute political power is always the worst option:

1) They use it to enact ever strickter and crazier "religous" rules on the population, and enforce it with draconian measures.

2) They do not believe in Democracy. Once they have political power they never want to relinquish it, thus becoming worse tyrants than the corrupt bastards who came before them.

And you know this from ... where?

And 1 and 2 already apply in Egypt. So you are saying it would be worse based off ... what?

[Lord of Oop North]

It is the national flower of Tunisia, apparently.

[Samalander]

1) But this presupposes that they are all the same. Afghanistan is different from Iran. Why shouldn't another country be different from both of them?

2) Even the Turkish government has Islamic roots.

1) So, they are not exactlythe same. So what? It always starts the same (saviors of the people) and ends the same (Dark Theocractic Regime).

2) And they just keep sliding deeper and deeper into fundamentalism.

And 1 and 2 already apply in Egypt. So you are saying it would be worse based off ... what?

Based on every single instance we have seen to date, of Zealous Islamic regimes coming to power.

[Galactus]

1) So, they are not exactlythe same. So what? It always starts the same (saviors of the people) and ends the same (Dark Theocractic Regime).

Well, the point is, they already are in "repressive authoritarian dictatorship" mode. As far as I can see they don't have much to lose.

[Shryke]

Based on every single instance we have seen to date, of Zealous Islamic regimes coming to power.

You mean the vastly different ones that don't function the same?

Also, I love "Dark Theocractic Regime". It's like the Muslim Brotherhood is lead by Sauron, Darth Vader and Lord Foul or something.

[Mad Monkey]

It is the national flower of Tunisia, apparently.

It's also pretty common for revolutions in the post-USSR era to get those cool nicknames. You've got the Velvet Revolution, the Green Revolution, the Orange Revolution, probably a Boysenberry Revolution or two.

[Samalander]

Well, the point is, they already are in "repressive authoritarian dictatorship" mode. As far as I can see they don't have much to lose.

Well, for instance, as far as I know, women don't get stoned to death in Egypt for adultery. So, you know, we have that to look forward to.

1) You mean the vastly different ones that don't function the same?

2) Also, I love "Dark Theocractic Regime". It's like the Muslim Brotherhood is lead by Sauron, Darth Vader and Lord Foul or something.

1) Yes, those are exactly the ones I mean.

2) Thank you, that's what I was going for :thumbsup:

[Thelonious]

Well, for instance, as far as I know, women don't get stoned to death in Egypt for adultery. So, you know, we have that to look forward to.

This is not a fundamentalist movement. It's a nominally leftist popular uprising that (as far as I know) crosses religious lines. What makes you think they will tolerate a hardline religious dictatorship any more than they're tolerating the current mob?

Taliban style movements don't have a lot of traction in comparatively developed nations like Egypt. Afghanistan, Kashmir and Somalia are basically tribal societies that exist under completely different circumstances. Even in Iran, it's the remote countryside that sees the worst in terms of stoning and the like, while the urbanised areas are surprisingly liberal.

[Samalander]

This is not a fundamentalist movement. It's a nominally leftist popular uprising that (as far as I know) crosses religious lines. What makes you think they will tolerate a hardline religious dictatorship any more than they're tolerating the current mob?

The Muslim Brotherhood is the biggest, strongest, most motivated and organized opposition force in Egypt. There is no such thing as a power vacuum. If the current regime is ousted, these guys will definately try to take over.

As for the people's toleration being a must for a regime to survive...well, that just depends on how iron fisted the regime is willing to be to maintain itself. And people who believe they are chosen by God to lead a country, tend to be the most iron fisted of them all.