The Heroes - Spoiler Edition

[Imagica]

I also found it neat that the Union characters seem to realize the Closed Council is where the real power sits, and their view of Bayaz as a controlling, interfering douchebag is fairly spot-on.

I thought it strange, personally. In TFL, I got the impression not many people know the real extent of Bayaz's power over the throne - only the King and high-ups like Glokta. But here, it almost seems like common knowledge.

, for example, I got Gorst being the one to kill Whirrun the second the bone thing was said

Remind me please, how is a bone thing connected to Gorst? Can't seem to recall it.

But yeah, the book wasn't really plot-twisty, but then, I don't think it was supposed to be. BSC relied on it way more.

it doesn't seem Abercrombie's style to re-use a PoV

I'm hoping he's saving it for the presumable trilogy :) The stories of some of the earlier POVs just scream "to be continued". Of course, they can be continued through the other POVs, but it's just not the same.

[Lord O' Bones]

Remind me please, how is a bone thing connected to Gorst? Can't seem to recall it.

Something about Whirren meeting his end by a man with a chicken bone caught in his throat. Maybe some reference to Gorst and his voice. Which I don't recall how that even happened. Just born that way? A wound to his throat, possibly from a chicken bone?

Time for some re-reads.

[Sariel]

I personally think that Bayaz seems to be getting the upper hand at this point. He controls the Union, arguably the the economic and cultural centre of the world, and the north (more tenously for sure, but in such a way that it will not threaten the Union for a long time).

Furthermore, though he failed to gain control of Styria it never did fall into Khalul's hands, and Bayaz' way of manipulating the world allows him continued influence on the continent as far as I understand.

Having lost most of his disciples, Khalul seems to be on a retreat as far as I can tell.

[polishgenius]

Maybe some reference to Gorst and his voice.

Yeah, that was my thinking. I think Gorst was born that way, and if not I don't remember how he got it (I doubt he'd be so embarrassed if it was a wound)- I just thought that seers aren't ever straightforward and having a chicken-bone caught in his throat seemed a good metaphor for Gorst's pitch problems.

[Poobah]

that short-story prequel

What?

On another subject, did anyone else find it ever-so-slightly predictable? Not the plot as a whole and it's not even really a flaw because I have a lot of fun guessing those details, and in these cases they're not unsatisfyingly predicable like in some others, but, for example, I got Gorst being the one to kill Whirrun the second the bone thing was said, Shivers killing Dow was obvious as soon as the challenge was made, and I got Reachey being the guy who sent the killers after Calder, although quite close to it after a fairly obvious hint in one of Reachey's reactions to him talking about it.

I didn't foresee any of this. I don't really read looking to try really. Not on a first read.

[The Iceman of the North]

I didn't foresee any of this. I don't really read looking to try really. Not on a first read.

Yes, guessing what's going to happen is so much easier on a re-read.

[Arthmail]

Did this come out in Canada? I'm looking at Chapters and they say it won't see release until March

[MinDonner]

Spoiler thread at last! And what a great book. Though Joe's strengths have always been characters, battles and showing good people get broken by terrible events, so it would have been disappointing to be otherwise... while more of the characters made it out alive than I was expecting, it was horribly depressing to see all that waste of life from, essentially, a Warhammer game played by Bayaz & Ishri using real people. No point in even picking a side to root for.

Whirrun's parting words about "(prophetess whose name I forget) was full of shit, if I'd known that I would have worn more armour" did crack me up, though. This probably makes me a bad person.

Onto specifics.

Well yeah, but Dow and Dogman knew him otherwise. And never even thought it. Let alone the narrator editor. Or Craw for that matter.

But, we never got a POV from either Dow or Dogman, and the narration does stick pretty closely to what the POV character knows or doesn't; would Craw have had any reason to think of Logen by his first name and not his Name name?

Is it just me, or did anyone else get the impression that Bayaz was eating human flesh in the dinner scene with Calder? Neither Bayaz nor Sulfur specified the type of meat.

Human meat was the first thing that sprang to mind as well, what with the parting comments about Calder having a "stronger stomach than they expected" when he said he might eat some later, and that Dow would be providing the dessert (or whatever it was). Bayaz doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would scruple at such a thing.

The thing about Finree v Ferro and Monza is that the other two are primarily motivated by revenge and focused entirely on one goal. Finree's just a normal person with all the complexities that entails.

I liked Finree a lot, but there was a nice touch with her picturing Monza as some kind of ideal to live up to, at one point. But she said something about how she'd grown up following Papa Kroy round on all his various campaigns - was there any mention of a daughter in the first trilogy? I can't remember there being one, but it would have been a nice touch if so. Like the lack of foreshadowing of Whirrun, I guess, you can't have everything.

[Werthead]

Didn't realise this earlier, but the Waterstones edition of The Heroes comes with Joe's short story (presumably that one from the anthology last year) setting up the events of the book, though oddly located at the end.

[Maltaran]

I don't think the Waterstones short story is the same one - from the comments I'm reading, the earlier short story was focused on Craw, right? The one in the Waterstones edition is focused on Gorst and his involvement in a skirmish with a raiding party led by Pale-as-Snow a day or two before the main battle.

[jurble]

I don't think the Waterstones short story is the same one - from the comments I'm reading, the earlier short story was focused on Craw, right? The one in the Waterstones edition is focused on Gorst and his involvement in a skirmish with a raiding party led by Pale-as-Snow a day or two before the main battle.

Yeah, the anthology story is about Craw's crew's and shiz. Wtf is a Waterstones btw?

[mjgambino]

Does anyone else get the impression that Joe hasn't decided whether or not "The Bloody Nine" is dead... or West, for that matter?

[Poobah]

Book Shop.

[unJon]

Does anyone else get the impression that Joe hasn't decided whether or not "The Bloody Nine" is dead... or West, for that matter?

I didn't think that the bit about West in the last Tunny POV was that ambiguous. He's dead.

[Ski the Swift]

I didn't think that the bit about West in the last Tunny POV was that ambiguous. He's dead.

It didn't mention anything about him being dead though, only that he is no longer Lord Marshall. The context was that he was discussing all the Lord Marshall's he's been under and Kroy was now another one, they weren't pointing out who had died and who had not. Joe left West and Logen's ending in TFL very ambiguous for a reason methinks.

And Min, in regards to Finree following her father around the campaign's: It has been ten years since Kroy became Lord Marshall so he has had plenty of time to take his young daughter around to untold battles, that's the way I see it anywho.

[unJon]

I don't think the Waterstones short story is the same one - from the comments I'm reading, the earlier short story was focused on Craw, right? The one in the Waterstones edition is focused on Gorst and his involvement in a skirmish with a raiding party led by Pale-as-Snow a day or two before the main battle.

Well this sucks for the non-UK people. Wonder if it will eventually be sold as part of a collection or otherwise. >_>

ETA: Joe, you didn't play fair with the title of The Heroes. I like that you always have the title match a famous quote, but you're quote for The Heroes was missing the "the". :-P

[Lord O' Bones]

But, we never got a POV from either Dow or Dogman, and the narration does stick pretty closely to what the POV character knows or doesn't; would Craw have had any reason to think of Logen by his first name and not his Name name?

Logen is kind of unique in that he is named twice. Originally as a named man he was called Ninefingers. But he also later on developed beast mode The Bloody Nine. But everyone would have know him as Logen Ninefingers as well. Not a big deal in any case, just thought it was weird.

[Jora]

Wasn't Craw always thinking of the instances when Logen was the Bloody-Nine? Like the High Places where he just butchered everyone.

[MinDonner]

One of the important things here, I think, is the fact that this is an oral culture; nothing gets written down, it's all only preserved in songs and legends and swiftly forgotten. Now it's been, what, 7 years or so since Logen vanished, and the Bloody-Nine is the only part of his legend that seems to be surviving, it's not surprising at all that this is how everyone thinks of him.

Also, I am 100% convinced that West is long dead, I don't see any ambiguity there at all.

[Ski the Swift]

Also, I am 100% convinced that West is long dead, I don't see any ambiguity there at all.

Boooooo hiss!