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A Thread for Small Questions VI


Lady Blackfish

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Bizarre question that just now struck me on Westeros weather patterns:

Does the winter/summer flux follow that of the real world? For example, its winter where I sit in the U.S., but down south in Peru it's summer. It seemed like this whole, very large continent was on the same weather pattern, as well as where Dany is, so I am unclear on this point.

It seems that both Westeros and the relevant parts of Essos are on the Northern Hemisphere. We do not how how much the more southern parts like Dorne or the Slaver's Bay are affected by the weather pattern, supposedly much less than the North, but it seems still to be the same pattern.

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So what was the significance of Robert Arryn's fostering? The first time I read Game of Thrones I realized that there were many differing opinions about where Robert was supposed to be fostered, but I just thought it would be significant later, but now on my reread I've realized there wasn't ever an explanation. The only thing I can think of was that Jon originally planned to have Robert fostered at Casterly Rock but changed his mind once he found out about the incestuous relationship between Cersei and Jaime. But is there any significance to the fact that Maester Colemon thought Robin was going to Dragonstone but Robert (and the Starks) thought it was Casterly Rock?

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So what was the significance of Robert Arryn's fostering? The first time I read Game of Thrones I realized that there were many differing opinions about where Robert was supposed to be fostered, but I just thought it would be significant later, but now on my reread I've realized there wasn't ever an explanation. The only thing I can think of was that Jon originally planned to have Robert fostered at Casterly Rock but changed his mind once he found out about the incestuous relationship between Cersei and Jaime. But is there any significance to the fact that Maester Colemon thought Robin was going to Dragonstone but Robert (and the Starks) thought it was Casterly Rock?

Jon Arryn wanted Robert to be fostered at dragon stone, but after he died, Cersei and/or Tywin said Jon Arrayn wanted him to be fostered at Casterly Rock (aka as hostage... they didn't know if Lysa knew what Jon knew)

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Jon Arryn wanted Robert to be fostered at dragon stone, but after he died, Cersei and/or Tywin said Jon Arrayn wanted him to be fostered at Casterly Rock (aka as hostage... they didn't know if Lysa knew what Jon knew)

I don't think anybody was under the impression that Jon Arryn was behind the decision to foster Robert at Casterly Rock. Robert says that it was his idea, although of course it could easily have been Cersei's.

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But is there any significance to the fact that Maester Colemon thought Robin was going to Dragonstone but Robert (and the Starks) thought it was Casterly Rock?

Jon Arryn was going to foster his son at Dragonstone because he was preparing to make his move against Cersei and wanted his family out of the way. However, Lysa's desperate need to keep her Sweetrobin close at hand made her a willing accomplice when Littlefinger told her to poison her husband. Remember Lysa's words to Catelyn: "Sister or no, if you try to steal my son, you will leave by the Moon Door." The decision (officially Robert's) to foster Sweetrobin at Casterly Rock was presumably a Lannister attempt to ensure Lysa's silence after Jon Arryn's death.

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Jon Arryn was going to foster his son at Dragonstone because he was preparing to make his move against Cersei and wanted his family out of the way.

I always thought it was actually an alliance between Jon and Stannis - Stannis (the true heir) would take Jon's son as a ward and possibly an agreement to marry Robert and Shireen had been made. I further thought that it was also because Jon wanted to remove Robert from Lysa's custody and poor parenting practices.
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When Dany was in the house of the Undying and I dont remember the exact passage, but it says something similar to - a great stone dragon took wing from the ruin of a smoking smoldering tower.

Most of the timelines are a little fuzzy, and I am sure that there have been multiple threads on this so far, but is it possible that it is the same dragon that summer saw.

Is this possibly the dragon that Melissandre is trying to awaken? Has it already been done with Roberts death? Joffs death? Renly? Any and or all of the above?

If it has been discussed before, can someone please link the thread.

Cheers.

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When Dany was in the house of the Undying and I dont remember the exact passage, but it says something similar to - a great stone dragon took wing from the ruin of a smoking smoldering tower.

Most of the timelines are a little fuzzy, and I am sure that there have been multiple threads on this so far, but is it possible that it is the same dragon that summer saw.

Is this possibly the dragon that Melissandre is trying to awaken? Has it already been done with Roberts death? Joffs death? Renly? Any and or all of the above?

If it has been discussed before, can someone please link the thread.

Cheers.

There was a thread called "Dragonsighting at winterfell" or something like that. Can you quote the passage from house of the undying in that thread?

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If it has been discussed before, can someone please link the thread.

See here.

As you can see in the thread, very few people believe that there was a Winterfell dragon, because it's hard to justify why there are no dragon sightings in the North or surrounding environs in the subsequent books. I personally don't think that GRRM ever anticipated that people would read Summer's description literally, as the wolf POVs are filled with figurative language ("sky-high man-cliffs," that sort of thing) and GRRM tends to flag an important mystery so that the reader knows to be thinking about it.

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There was a thread called "Dragonsighting at winterfell" or something like that. Can you quote the passage from house of the undying in that thread?

I will quote it here and then in the other thread as well.

The verse says......... " A cloth dragon swayed on poles amongst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire..............."

That is the exact quote. If we are to draw conclusions, which we all do here. I would have to say that is pretty darn close to what summer has seen in the the ruins of Winterfell.

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Can any of you remember in which chapter of which book Joffrey starts throwing a particularly violent tantrum and GRRM descriebs Tywin staring at him with a blank expression, almost looking through him? I remember, looking back, realizing that was the moment Tywin started to hatch his plan for eliminating Joffrey, and it was the reason for the blank stare--he was plotting. But I just can't remember where.

Thanks for your help!

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Might have been asked already but

in one of Tyrion's chapters hen the talks to Bronn about whatsherface, the woman he loved after he was done telling the story Bronn says "Thirteen Thirty or Three I would kill the man who did that to me." I was wonder if the numbers meant anything because I do not recall them coming up in the story like maybe it was some sort of saying of some kind.

Also in the same chapter Tyrion says something about a drunken septon the septon on the wall is said to also be a drunk could it be the same guy sent up there by Tywin as punishment?

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Can any of you remember in which chapter of which book Joffrey starts throwing a particularly violent tantrum and GRRM descriebs Tywin staring at him with a blank expression, almost looking through him? I remember, looking back, realizing that was the moment Tywin started to hatch his plan for eliminating Joffrey, and it was the reason for the blank stare--he was plotting. But I just can't remember where.

Thanks for your help!

It's a Tyrion chapter in Storm of Swords, pages 711-721, US paperback edition.

Joffrey had that sullen, sulky look he got. Cersei had him firmly by the shoulder, but perhaps she should have had him by the throat. The boy surprised them all. Instead of scuttling back under his rock, Joff drew himself up defiantly and said, "You talk about Aerys, Grandfather, but you were scared of him."

Oh, my. hasn't this gotten interesting? Tyrion thought.

Lord Tywin studied his grandchild in silence, gold flecks shinning in his pale green eyes. "Joffrey, apologize to your grandfather," said Cersei.

He wrenched free of her. "Why should I? Everyone knows it's true. My father won all the battles . He killed Prince Rhaegar and took the crown, while your father was hiding under Casterly Rock." The boy gave his grandfather a defiant look. "A strong king acts boldly, he doesn't just talk."

"Thank you for that wisdom, Your Grace," Lord Tywin said, with a courtesy so cold it was like to freeze their ears off.

SoS, p. 715-716.

Then Tywin sends Joffrey off and starts pointing out Cersei's flaws in educating him.

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Guest Other-in-Law

Might have been asked already but

in one of Tyrion's chapters hen the talks to Bronn about whatsherface, the woman he loved after he was done telling the story Bronn says "Thirteen Thirty or Three I would kill the man who did that to me." I was wonder if the numbers meant anything because I do not recall them coming up in the story like maybe it was some sort of saying of some kind.

Tyrion was 13 years old when it happened.

Also in the same chapter Tyrion says something about a drunken septon the septon on the wall is said to also be a drunk could it be the same guy sent up there by Tywin as punishment?

Using the logic of "Oswell Kettleblack=Oswell Whent", they almost certainly are. It would be quite a coincidence if there more than one alcoholic septon in a continent the size of South America.

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Might have been asked already but

in one of Tyrion's chapters hen the talks to Bronn about whatsherface, the woman he loved after he was done telling the story Bronn says "Thirteen Thirty or Three I would kill the man who did that to me." I was wonder if the numbers meant anything because I do not recall them coming up in the story like maybe it was some sort of saying of some kind.

Also in the same chapter Tyrion says something about a drunken septon the septon on the wall is said to also be a drunk could it be the same guy sent up there by Tywin as punishment?

Tyrion tells Bronn the story in AGoT, by a campfire, after Bronn champions Tyrion in the trial by combat and they are thrown out into the mountains of the Vale, to presumably be killed by the mountain clans.

I don't think the numbers mean anything, apart from all having a "3" in them. It basically means "No matter what age I was, I would have killed Tywin."

Other-in-law sees fit to use sarcasm against your septon theory, I notice, which is hardly constructive behaviour, and I fault him for that. I think it is possible it is the same septon: Likely, the septon who married Tyrion to Tysha would have been dispatched of somehow, as punishment and to prevent him talking about it. Whether or not it is the same septon, well, you'd have to compare the details provided by GRRM. If it is the same septon, GRRM will probably have left some minor hint about it. If there are none, it is most likely not the same septon.

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The fact that Tyrion was at Castle Black for some time without ever mentioning how Septon Cellador was a fellow he once knew would pretty clearly suggest that, no, they're unrelated. As OiL suggests in turn, Westeros is a very large place, and there are probably quite a few septons who are drunkards as a small subset of all septons.

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I will quote it here and then in the other thread as well.

The verse says......... " A cloth dragon swayed on poles amongst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire..............."

That is the exact quote. If we are to draw conclusions, which we all do here. I would have to say that is pretty darn close to what summer has seen in the the ruins of Winterfell.

You left out the most important part of that verse, which is (if I remember right) that the warlocks call her "mother of dragons, slayer of lies," before giving her the three visions; the two visions you described come after a vision of Stannis holding Lightbringer.

The implication here is most likely that these are three falsehoods Dany will expose; Stannis being Azor Ahai reborn is the first. Then comes a cloth dragon - she explains to Jorah later in ACOK that this was a mummer's dragon. Possibly a fake Targaryen? And the third vision of the stone dragons awakening would be Melisandre's claim that Dragonstone will come to life if Stannis gives her the blood of a king.

These visions, like all the others in this chapter (and there are A LOT of them), are visions of things to come for Daenarys Stormborn.

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In thread "Is Tyrion a rapist" people draw parallel between Shea's and Bronn's "jobs". In that thread people constantly mentioned Bronn's "involment" in trial on contrary Shae's.

Why Bronn isn't called as witness?

Because Cesei didn't ask him :)

Maybe she didn't trust him...

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Cersei had leverage over Shae. Tywin had stated that he was willing to hang Tyrion's next mistress, so Shae had to cooperate. Bronn, on the other hand, wasn't accused of doing anything wrong, and as Lady Tanda's good-son was sufficiently noble that Cersei couldn't just kill him with impunity.

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