A Thread for Small Questions VI

[KyleLitke]

Briefly, because this is supposed to be small questions:

Probably a better word than 'poetic', actually. But either way, not something that's meant to be read as a legal contract. An argument based on doing so is, I'm afraid, silly. If that word suits you better than 'daft'. ;)

Of course it's binding: it's an oath. But oaths are oaths, and contracts are contracts, and the two often use a different kind of language. Exegesis of a text must take into account the nature of the text.

What claim is that? I didn't make any such claim... I just said that the oath is clearly not, in practise, read literally and probably isn't meant to be. Celibacy is expected, even if it's not generally observed.

Then, I have to ask, why is it every other part of that oath is strongly adhered to at all costs, to the point that a man of the Nights Watch who leaves is immediately executed no matter what the reasoning or who he is, without question, but "Nah, it's cool if the majority of you guys all sleep around"?

It doesn't seem to make any sense to me that there's this strong oath sworn to the gods that the Nights Watch takes extremely seriously, an oath that even seems to have a magical element to it (as mentioned with Sam) but oh, that part about sex we'll just totally ignore.

I'd also point out that it keeps being said that it's clear everyone knows sex is oath breaking...we don't have a point of view on the matter, but I'd wager that the majority of the "half the Nights Watch" that are going down to Mole's Town don't consider themselves oathbreakers who should be hunted down and executed. We don't know if most of the Nights Watch really considers that Oath Breaking or not. I'm willing to concede that at least some people obviously do. But all we really have are the opinions of two people who have never seen the Wall (Tyrion mentioned that before reaching the Wall I believe), two people who were clearly looking for any reason to get Jon Snow executed and would have claimed he was an oathbreaker no matter what he did, and Jon himself who comes from a family where sex = marriage and who thought he'd have to marry Ygritte for sleeping with her.

I think it's at least possible that this is a part of the oath that is not definitively absolute, like the US second amendment I mentioned earlier, open to multiple interpretations. If it's as definitive as you say, then why aren't they executed for sleeping around? Before someone responds with "Well, they'd lose half the Wall...", if they started enforcing that to that extent it'd stop. The threat of an immediate execution is enough to keep the murderers and rapists on the Wall rather than escaping at the first opportunity, I'm sure it'd stop the trips to Mole's Town too.

[Kinzee]

Was Ned betrothed to anyone before Brandon died and he became betrothed to Catelyn instead? I know there are rumors about Ashara Dayne, since Ned danced with her at the Tourney of Harrenhal. She also threw herself from a tower after Ned came to deliver her brother's (Arthur's) sword. But it could be that she was stricken with grief both for her dead brother and losing Ned to Catelyn.

But were they ever formally betrothed, or was Ned officially a bachelor up until Brandon died?

[Maestress Sand]

Far as I know Kinzee, we have never heard that Ned was at all betrothed prior to Brandon's death. And the Ashara Dayne references are famously vague as to what they actually meant about their interaction and her death.

[Yarl Snow]

Far as I know Kinzee, we have never heard that Ned was at all betrothed prior to Brandon's death. And the Ashara Dayne references are famously vague as to what they actually meant about their interaction and her death.

I personally doubt very much that she killed herself over Ned. They only met once, that we know of. Similarly, I find it strange that she would kill herself because her brother had died. Even combined, I don't think it adds up. There's something more there that we do not know.

[Dragonfish]

I personally doubt very much that she killed herself over Ned. They only met once, that we know of. Similarly, I find it strange that she would kill herself because her brother had died. Even combined, I don't think it adds up. There's something more there that we do not know.

I recall reading a theory that Ashara was the one who told Ned where to find Lyanna during the war. So she may have blamed herself for inadvertently causing the death of her brother at the hands of the man she (presumably) loved.

Incidentally, if she told Ned this information through some clandestine meeting, then this may have been some good grist for the rumors that she and Ned had an affair.