Boy Refuses to Wrestle Girl

[Merentha]

I was raised that boys should never hit girls, men should never hit women, etc. I know, really old-fashioned, but it was ingrained in me that women deserve better than getting hit by men. Is it really that bad a thing to teach a boy given how some men seem to think there's nothing wrong with that?

Yes. In my opinion, setting women apart and giving them special rules is "protective" sexism or "benign" sexism, which is still sexism. And sexism leads to sexual violence. And therefore, sexual violence. Why do only women deserve better than being hit by men? What makes them different? And why would having it be ingrained in you that everyone deserves better than being hit by anyone lead to any less violence between men and women than what was ingrained in you?

[Tempra]

Yes. In my opinion, setting women apart and giving them special rules is "protective" sexism or "benign" sexism, which is still sexism. And sexism leads to sexual violence. And therefore, sexual violence. Why do only women deserve better than being hit by men? What makes them different? And why would having it be ingrained in you that everyone deserves better than being hit by anyone lead to any less violence between men and women than what was ingrained in you?

... are you serious? Yes, being taught that it is extra bad to hit women leads to sexual violence.

[Merentha]

... are you serious? Yes, being taught that it is extra bad to hit women leads to sexual violence.

Yes. I am.

[Analu]

I've never wrestled myself, but I have practiced martial arts, and in no way did we ever let up because the opponent was a girl. That would be a significant form of disrespect and dishonor to one's opponent, in a sport where these kinds of things are taken pretty seriously.

If you're talking about sparring here and saying that no one at your gym ever let up on a girl during sparring then... I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this, but I find that pretty hard to believe. I love women and have all the respect in the world for them, but striking is striking, and at every gym I've ever been to, guys would get thrown out faster than they could blink if they were doing hard sparring 100% against a girl.

Because respect and honor is all well and good, but if I let my male students throw power shots at 100% against female sparring partners, then I can guarantee you that I'd be getting choke phone calls from angry parents that wouldn't give a shit about disrespecting and dishonoring their precious daughter. They'd be demanding to know why I let her get knocked around at the gym.

But maybe TMA schools are different. My background is more boxing, and for the last several years, BJJ and Muay Thai.

As for the wrestling situation, I never wrestled in high school (really wish I had now), but I think I'd have no problem wrestling a girl in a competition. God knows I did enough of that growing up, having 3 older sisters.

[Tempra]

It's sexist. If you're OK with that, that's fine, but don't complain we people call you a sexist because you do sexist things.

Yeah, guys (and women) who believe it is extra wrong to hit women are sexist pigs. Way to condemn most of the population.

I think when you use "sexism" to denounce such benign (if not beneficial) action, then you are doing a great disservice to actual sexism. Or not, because little boys who are taught that hitting women is extra bad are future rapists, at least as Merentha sees it.

[Commodore]

Occam's Razor, he's worried about getting a chubby in a unitard and made this up as an excuse.

[Poobah]

Yeah, guys (and women) who believe it is extra wrong to hit women are sexist pigs. Way to condemn most of the population.

I think when you use "sexism" to denounce such benign (if not beneficial) action, then you are doing a great disservice to actual sexism. Or not, because little boys who are taught that hitting women is extra bad are future rapists, at least as Merentha sees it.

Opening a door for a woman is benign (if not beneficial), so is standing up and pulling out her chair for her... both they are both rooted in sexism. Women should be treated the same as any other person. If you're ok with punching guys in the face but not women then you are a sexist by the default of treating people differently based entirely upon their gender.

[Tempra]

Yes. I am.

My brain tells me that I shouldn't punch, slap, wrestle, etc, women because they are delicate flowers, but my cock wants to force itself on every broad with a pulse. WHAT DO I DO!?

I would like some shred of evidence backing up your statement.

[Balefont]

I'd rather teach my son that it's wrong to hit women period, and hold to that even if it means a forfeit, than to watch him pound in some girl's face, which certainly happens in things like boxing, and can happen with forearms, etc., in wrestling. People might not agree with this kids decision, but I hardly think it is deserving of ridicule that this kid just thinks that pounding on women is wrong.

Speaking as a women who trains in a fighting sport, thanks but not thanks. I'll look out for myself. It's insulting to me that you think I can't. (And yes, I made this a personal statement but I'm sure there are plenty of other female competitors that would join me in saying this.)

[kairparavel]

The earlier boys learn to respect women in sports as competitors parents and coaches teach boys to respect women in sports as competitors, the better human beings they will be it will be for sports in general, and go a long way to tearing down gender roles and expectations.

Adolescence totally sucks. Your body is changing and weird and unflattering things are happening to you. And now, on top of all that, a 14 year old needs to suck it all up and deal and not think about all the other stuff that occupies their brain during the rest of the time. How about a little guidance from coaches and parents, telling their players to go out, and wrestle an opponent like you would any opponent - based on what you know about their strengths, weaknesses, favourite moves etc etc. That yes, the crotch and chest that might get thrust in your face isn't built the same as yours, but don't think about it. You're playing a sport. That sure, you're both going to be sweaty and stinky and make weird noises and stuff, but once you're each showered and back into your street clothes, it's back to life as normal.

Unfortunately, wrestling is a very unique case where you are very up close and personal with your opponent. Football has contact, but not constant maintained contact. Nor does hockey. And they are team sports. This is one on one. So while I'm not going to say that because it's so unique it gets a pass, I will say that the sport itself needs a little more overhaul from the inside out with coaching and outreach to integrate girls if they are out there and want to wrestle, instead of from the outside in with people not even involved saying to just get over it and do it.

[Poobah]

My brain tells me that I shouldn't punch, slap, wrestle, etc, women because they are delicate flowers, but my cock wants to force itself on every broad with a pulse. WHAT DO I DO!?

What a disgusting joke.

You have problems. Seek Help.

[peterbound]

FLOW,

I teach my son not to hit girls. I teach my son to open doors for girls. I teach my son to stand up when his mom or grandma sits down at the table. He says please and thank you, and takes his hat off when he is indoors. I'm old fashioned with that shit too. However, if a woman, in the same weight class wishes to roll on the mat, i say let her.

ETA: If i did indeed have a daughter, i'd never tell her that she could not do anything, much less wrestling. She would of course have to accept the strong physical differences between men and women, and deal with the fact that there are indeed going to be things that she may not be physically able to do (same could be said for some men), but i'd never out and out tell her she couldn't do it.

Merentha,

I teach him to 'respect' women. They are our mothers and wives, and make the world an interesting place to live in. I see no issue with teaching him these values and to call it sexism is dumb. Is it ageism to defer to your elders, open their doors, carry their groceries and show them respect?

You are seriously blurring the lines between true sexism and respect, and jumping to major conclusions that shown respect leads to sexual/physical violence.

[Dornish]

Yeah, guys (and women) who believe it is extra wrong to hit women are sexist pigs. Way to condemn most of the population.

Lovely argument from popularity there.

I think when you use "sexism" to denounce such benign (if not beneficial) action, then you are doing a great disservice to actual sexism. Or not, because little boys who are taught that hitting women is extra bad are future rapists, at least as Merentha sees it.

If a person is asking to be treated as an equal and you refuse, it is disrespectful. Being disrespectful to a woman because she's a woman is the definition of sexism. By refusing to compete with a woman you are effectively telling her that you know better than she does what is good for her.

[Balefont]

Men who are of the "It's not okay to hit wimminz because they are wimminz and must be respected" do contribute significantly to violence and sexual violence because they perpetuate the idea that women are the weaker sex and therefore this implied weakness can be taken advantage of by less "respectful" men.

If, instead, boys were raised to respect women because women can hold their own against them and should be respected because they are human beings, this would go far towards gender equality and make us seem less ripe for the picking by the assholes.

[Commodore]

Adolescence totally sucks. Your body is changing and weird and unflattering things are happening to you. And now, on top of all that, a 14 year old needs to suck it all up and deal and not think about all the other stuff that occupies their brain during the rest of the time. How about a little guidance from coaches and parents, telling their players to go out, and wrestle an opponent like you would any opponent - based on what you know about their strengths, weaknesses, favourite moves etc etc. That yes, the crotch and chest that might get thrust in your face isn't built the same as yours, but don't think about it. You're playing a sport. That sure, you're both going to be sweaty and stinky and make weird noises and stuff, but once you're each showered and back into your street clothes, it's back to life as normal.

Unfortunately, wrestling is a very unique case where you are very up close and personal with your opponent. Football has contact, but not constant maintained contact. Nor does hockey. And they are team sports. This is one on one. So while I'm not going to say that because it's so unique it gets a pass, I will say that the sport itself needs a little more overhaul from the inside out with coaching and outreach to integrate girls if they are out there and want to wrestle, instead of from the outside in with people not even involved saying to just get over it and do it.

Good post, like I said, maybe the poor kid is just uncomfortable and embarrassed (I can't imagine how I would act in that situation at that age) to say why, so he tries to find a reasonable excuse.

"Hey fourteen year old boy, get on the ground and rub up against that chick in tight spandex while a bunch of people watch you."

[kairparavel]

Speaking as a women who trains in a fighting sport, thanks but not thanks. I'll look out for myself. It's insulting to me that you think I can't. (And yes, I made this a personal statement but I'm sure there are plenty of other female competitors that would join me in saying this.)

I agree with you a hundred percent, as a woman. But did you feel the same way as a teen or pre-teen? I have, a lifetime of experience and maturity I didn't have at 10 or 13 and while I wanted to play hockey with boys, I didn't really understand what that meant. Hell, when I played hockey with men in a league at 25 I didn't fully understand what that meant. I knew I could get hit, I knew the risks but 1) just wanted to play and 2) hoped and prayed that even though it was a non-contact league I wasn't hit accidentally (or possibly on purpose). And no one took it easy on me.

[Commodore]

Men who are of the "It's not okay to hit wimminz because they are wimminz and must be respected" do contribute significantly to violence and sexual violence because they perpetuate the idea that women are the weaker sex

They are the weaker sex, physically.

[Tempra]

FLOW,

I teach my son not to hit girls. I teach my son to open doors for girls. I teach my son to stand up when his mom or grandma sits down at the table. He says please and thank you, and takes his hat off when he is indoors. I'm old fashioned with that shit too. However, if a woman, in the same weight class wishes to roll on the mat, i say let her.

ETA: If i did indeed have a daughter, i'd never tell her that she could not do anything, much less wrestling. She would of course have to accept the strong physical differences between men and women, and deal with the fact that there are indeed going to be things that she may not be physically able to do (same could be said for some men), but i'd never out and out tell her she couldn't do it.

Stop being sexist. You are contributing to sexual violence against women.

[peterbound]

Men who are of the "It's not okay to hit wimminz because they are wimminz and must be respected" do contribute significantly to violence and sexual violence because they perpetuate the idea that women are the weaker sex and therefore this implied weakness can be taken advantage of by less "respectful" men.

If, instead, boys were raised to respect women because women can hold there own against them and should be respected because they are human beings, this would go far towards gender equality and make us seem less ripe for the picking by the assholes.

I think you'll find this is the prevailing attitude in most respectful man. Outside of holding their own of course. I respect the fact that you are in 'combat sports' but lets be serious here, you'll never find a male ufc competitor ever, ever fighting a female, even in the same weight class.

It will never happen.

[Dornish]

They are the weaker sex, physically.

Would you consider it more acceptable to hit a physically weak man than an athletic woman given an identical situation?