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Triskele

The Judging Eye XI (spoilers)

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Continue.....

From the chronicles of the ASOIAF:

The obscure identity of "Cleric" was finally ferreted out by the ecstatic known as Triskele who posited that the dream sequence in Cil-Aujas "outed" Cleric as Nil'giccas. A host of obscene boarders assembled themselves upon the teknelogic planes of the "the web" to assail his thesis, but the legions backing Triskele were emboldened by the cutting geometries of their logic and study. While the ultimate nature of Cleric had not been written into cannon, the enemies of the Nil'giccasari were driven back for at least one month's time....repelled by the fierce logical weapons of Trisk and his Nil'giccasasari. Nerdenal and her Nin'janjiri retired to their fell recesses for reasons that only they could understand.

So...yeah...continue.....

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This thread should be XI, not X, since the Reread thread is number X. (Trisk: Full edit the first post, then you can change the subtitle.)

(Or this thread could be Judging Eye X Leopard or something.)

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This thread should be XI, not X, since the Reread thread is number X. (Trisk: Full edit the first post, then you can change the subtitle.)

(Or this thread could be Judging Eye X Leopard or something.)

Apologies to the reread thread. I've changed the OP accordingly.

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I'd been coming around to the Cleric = Nil-G camp, but . . .

In Seswatha's entry in the TTT glossary, it talks about Seswatha becoming "an adroit political operator . . . forging relationships with important personages . . . including Nil'giccas, the Nonman King of Ishterebinth."

Also, Nil-G fought with Celmomas and Seswatha in the First Ordeal before bailing when his sons died. In fact, in the dream you reference, Triskele, Seswatha is talking about the incredible great ordeal that Celmomas has assembled: "Our foe has no hope against the Ordeal you have assembled. Think. Nimeric [another Anasurimbor, by the way]. . . Even Nil'giccas marches." But from what we know it seems likely that Seswatha himself has been instrumental in assembling it.

So . . . it's not like they're BFFs or anything - I assume - but wouldn't we expect Akka to recognize Nil-G from the Seswatha dreams?

Edited because I can't spell evidently . . .

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Continue.....

From the chronicles of the ASOIAF:

The obscure identity of "Cleric" was finally ferreted out by the ecstatic known as Triskele who posited that the dream sequence in Cil-Aujas "outed" Cleric is Nil'giccas. A host of obscene boarders assembled themselves upon the teknelogic planes of the "the web" to assail his thesis, but the legions backing Triskele were emboldened by the cutting geometries of their logic and study. While the ultimate nature of Cleric had not been written into cannon, the enemies of the Nil'giccasasi were driven back for at least one month's time....repelled by the fierce logical weapons of Trisk and his Nil'giccasasi.

So...yeah...continue.....

You, sir, are no Happy Ent.

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So . . . it's not like their BFFs or anything - I assume - but wouldn't we expect Akka to recognize Nil-G from the Seswatha dreams?

Fair question. But I'll say again that I don't think Akka would know either NG or Mek on sight despite perhaps knowing them within the context of the Seswatha dreams. As the text has pointed out they all look exactly the same to men. Can Akka tell the difference on sight without knowing context? I don't think so, but I am not positive. That is to say that while I still think it's absurd to say that Cleric = Mek, it's not because Akka would know him on sight. He might not.

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You, sir, are no Happy Ent.

I'll be the first to agree to that. Happy Ent's parodies are golden.

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The dreaded triple-post:

Here is a passage from a Cil-Aujas chapter in TJE:

Pg. 297

Pir-Pahal, Achammian realized. the entire hall was dedicated to it, a great and ancient battle fought between Nonmen and the Inchoiroi. He coudl even recognize the principals: the traitor Nin'janjin, and his sovereign, Cu'Jara Cinmoi, the Nonman Emperor. The mighty hero, Gin gurima, with arms like a man's thighs. And the Inchoroi King, Sil, armoured in corpses, flanked by his inhuman kinsman, winged monstrosities with wicked limbs, pendulous phalli, and skulls grafted into skulls.

How does Akka "recognize" the principals? Is it by sight or by the context of what he's looking at? Because if by chance it's the former it eviscerates the idea that Cleric is Nin'janjin.

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The dreaded triple-post:

Here is a passage from a Cil-Aujas chapter in TJE:

How does Akka "recognize" the principals? Is it by sight or by the context of what he's looking at? Because if by chance it's the former it eviscerates the idea that Cleric is Nin'janjin.

Well, it can't be from the Seswatha memories as this is way before Seswatha's time and Sil and CC die in this battle (IIRC). In this case, it has to be context or similarity to other representations.

Also, I take your point above about Nonmen all looking alike. I wish I knew how literally we were supposed to take that. Does anyone say this besides Mimara?

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Ok, Im going full crackpot here.

Last night it struck me that we don't know for sure that Cu'jara Cinmoi is dead, only his headless corpse was recovered after the battle where he died. So we don't know for sure it was him.

So, regardless of the probability, C=CC would be a very cool possibility. Doesn't really rhyme with his discussion with the Wight though. Or much else we know.

Also - we don't know the location of the old Mansion of Siöl. I propose Siöl=Ishual. The names aren't that different, and it would make Ishual even more interesting.

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Also, I take your point above about Nonmen all looking alike. I wish I knew how literally we were supposed to take that. Does anyone say this besides Mimara?

I think so, but I'm not certain. I'm pretty sure that it has been suggested that they look so alike before, but I can't remember if its been taken to \the level of what Mimara said which suggewst that they are utterly identical to men.

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It is clear to me now. Siol is Ishteribinth is Ishual and Cleric is Cujara Cinmoi with the skull of Ninjanjin grafted to CC's body. It makes perfect sense, we never saw CC's body after the bit in the appendix and just cause you're beheaded doesn't mean you're dead dead.

on the other hand, the fact that Siol is pretty well known probably shoots this all to hell, it'd be foolish to build a secret fortress in the ruins of the most famous of all nonman mansions.

Triskele: All parodies must contain a variant phrase inclusive of the quartet word string, "death came swirling down" at some point.

It's in the bylaws. :rolleyes: :dunno:

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Ok, Im going full crackpot here.

Last night it struck me that we don't know for sure that Cu'jara Cinmoi is dead, only his headless corpse was recovered after the battle where he died. So we don't know for sure it was him.

So, regardless of the probability, C=CC would be a very cool possibility. Doesn't really rhyme with his discussion with the Wight though. Or much else we know.

Also - we don't know the location of the old Mansion of Siöl. I propose Siöl=Ishual. The names aren't that different, and it would make Ishual even more interesting.

But if Cu'jara Cinmoi's head is still alive, surely it would be the Tekne keeping it alive, and he'd be sitting in Golgotterath somewhere.

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Last night it struck me that we don't know for sure that Cu'jara Cinmoi is dead, only his headless corpse was recovered after the battle where he died.

I'll see your crackpot and raise it: We find out in the Unholy Consult that the Inchies recovered the head, kept it/him alive with the Tekne, and have been doing unconscionable things to it for . . . a good long time now.

It'll be left to Cleric to put CC out of his misery, which - lucky guy that he is - will prove to be a memorable experience for him.

ETA: Jurble beat me to it.

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Ishuäl being Siöl actually sounds rather likely. The locations of Viri and Siöl are both unknown, but we know that Viri was close enough to Golgotterath to suffer severe damage and Siöl would almost certainly have been the mansion closest to Viri since that's where Nin'janjin sent his letter asking for aid. Also, the point of impact is said to have been in the western, not northern, lands ruled by Viri.

Therefore I think Ishuäl is Siöl and the exact location of Viri is still unknown to us.

EDIT - By the way, it occurred to me too that Cû'jara-Cinmoi's severed head might be still alive, but I chose to post some more solid speculation instead. The one time I don't jump straight into wild speculation others do, with the same idea...

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my apologies for quoting the rape of omindalea, I posted form work and didn't realize it had been excised from the published appendix.

Or maybe the Ordeal will strike clear east of the Sea of Neleost towards Dagliash?

This is directly below Ishterebinth - "Exalted Stronghold" (Ihrimsu) in the TTT Appendix.

The naming convention always struck me. Men have created Mannish names for everything so this would be a serious deviation. Plus, the closeness of Isterebinth and Ishual directly on either side of a the Demua Mountains, which would mirror Cil-Aujas construction, through the Osthwai Mountains, and their translated names.

Finally, the Thousand Thousand Halls, always, always struck me as a Mansion because of those names.

EDIT: Btw, Pat claims that though they don't show up in force the Consult's presence is very much felt throughout the events of WLW. I wonder how?

It would make sense, I think, for Ishual to be the place where Nil Giccas sequestered away the hybrids. Away from the other nonmen and away from man. Then it really would be the secret home of the anasurimbors since it's construction.

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What I meant was that we can't be certain it really was his corpse. A corpse in his armor, yes.

But his Consult-reanimated head would be cool to see as well. That pot is even crackier.

Though for the record I'm still firmly in the C=NG camp.

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I think so, but I'm not certain. I'm pretty sure that it has been suggested that they look so alike before, but I can't remember if its been taken to \the level of what Mimara said which suggewst that they are utterly identical to men.

There's a further mention of it somewhere, but Non-men all "look alike" the same way you'd hear a (rather uncouth) westerner say "All Chinese people look the same to me". They mention in fact, if I remember correctly, that Non-men think most men all look the same.

Basically, I think the point is not that they all look identical but that, being two differing species, neither group is very good at spotting the small differences that differentiate the other group one from another.

Which would mean that it could be done, if one had enough experience or knew the Non-man in question well enough.

The dreaded triple-post:

Here is a passage from a Cil-Aujas chapter in TJE:

How does Akka "recognize" the principals? Is it by sight or by the context of what he's looking at? Because if by chance it's the former it eviscerates the idea that Cleric is Nin'janjin.

I'd assume from context, since he'd have no way of meeting them all, even as Seswatha. The Gin'gurima guy mentioned dies in the Cuno-Inchoroi wars for sure.

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