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xythil

Why did they change the reason Eddard goes to kings landing?

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This show looks perfect.

I don't expect it to be EXACTLY the same as the books...

But why change this? It was catalyn that made eddard go... he didn't want to.

She wanted them to go for the families prestige ect...

She doomed house stark... and thats why we all hate her

Why reinterpret this?

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She wanted them to go for the families prestige ect...

She doomed house stark... and thats why we all hate her

It was a little more nuanced than that Catelyn was worried they would offend Robert, and anyway once she got Lysa's letter the reason became going to investigate Jon Arryn's murder and that was all in the same chapter. Besides Catlyn did not MAKE Eddard do it. She simply advised he do so. The second Catelyn Chapter in AGOT, go back and read it. Oh and we all hate her? She doomed House Stark? That is, like, your opinion.

What reinterpretation do they take in the series?

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It was a little more nuanced than that, and anyway once she got Lysa's letter the reason became going to investigate Jon Arryn's murder and that was all in the same chapter. Oh and we all hate her? She doomed House Stark? That is, like, your opinion.

Everythings opinion.. mine just happens to be right :P

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Anyway I updated my response a bit.

How did they change the reason in the series?

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Anyway I updated my response a bit.

How did they change the reason in the series?

From comments that Elio and Linda made after they saw the screening, it seems that Catelyn is against Eddard going south both before and after Bran is injured.

In the books IIRC, Catelyn is at first pro Eddard going south both because it would be doing their duty to the king, and secondly to investigate Arryn's murder on behalf of Lysa. In addition, she thinks it would be a good experience for Sansa and Arya to spend time at court (HA!). After Bran is injured, Cat BEGS Eddard to stay, but now Ned is resistant (he doesn't want to break his word to Robert).

It does seem strange - I'm not sure what the discussion is going to look like in the end. After all, I would think that Cat would still want Eddard to follow up on Lysa's letter (we know that the letter exists in the show - they released an image of the cyphered letter awhile back).

Also to the OP, most people that hate Catelyn also hate all the other female characters in the books except for Arya, who acts like a boy. Shockingly, most of these Cat haters are men and boys under the age of thirty... hmm... interesting...

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From comments that Elio and Linda made after they saw the screening, it seems that Catelyn is against Eddard going south both before and after Bran is injured.

In the books IIRC, Catelyn is at first pro Eddard going south both because it would be doing their duty to the king, and secondly to investigate Arryn's murder on behalf of Lysa. In addition, she thinks it would be a good experience for Sansa and Arya to spend time at court (HA!). After Bran is injured, Cat BEGS Eddard to stay, but now Ned is resistant (he doesn't want to break his word to Robert).

It does seem strange - I'm not sure what the discussion is going to look like in the end. After all, I would think that Cat would still want Eddard to follow up on Lysa's letter (we know that the letter exists in the show - they released an image of the cyphered letter awhile back).

Also to the OP, most people that hate Catelyn also hate all the other female characters in the books except for Arya, who acts like a boy. Shockingly, most of these Cat haters are men and boys under the age of thirty... hmm... interesting...

Not being misogynistic as you seem to be insinuating.

Dany was not shown to be tricked or forced into a sexual relationship with Drogo.

Drogo seemed pretty decent and kind to Dany for being a barbarian horse lord who has probably raped hundreds.

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She doomed house stark... and thats why we all hate her

They changed Catelyn apparently. Although we need to see how exactly. But Ned's reason for going doesn't really change.

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Everythings opinion.. mine just happens to be right :P

Except for the dumb parts. Like "Catelyn made Eddard go to King's Landing" and "She doomed House Stark".

Which are both quite wrong. Eddard had doubts. But he never seriously considered refusing.

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Ned doomed House Stark. Or Robert did. Or Littlefinger or Lysa. Or Robb. Or, or, or...

Catelyn has a pretty small measure of guilt, compared to a lot of the others involved.

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Why shift the motives and actions of the characters some? It might be as plain as that with limited screen time they decided to somewhat simplify the mini-conflict about which course of action to take once she and Ned realize he would be asked to become Hand. This then leads into how Catelyn behaves after Bran's fall: in the book we can take more time for her to psychologically move from being highly practical about why Ned needs to leave her and Robb (and eventually Bran) behind, to her being overwhelmed with grief and acting far less rationally about such things. On screen, they will need to get her character to that place within the second hour of the series, so it's likely she'll have all of 20 minutes or so of screen time to go from caculating and plotting, strong-willed and decisive counterpart to Ned, to somewhat (and I hate to use this word) hysterical and bereaved mother who can think only of her one broken child, even over her other children and Ned. That's a lot of emotional ground to cover in 20 or 30 minutes of screen time, and it's not the central focus of the story, so I think they may have just simplified Catelyn's character a bit in this way.

I see it as one of those decisions one has to make to keep an adaptation coherent and not overburdened, even if it means losing some of the fine nuance in the novels. A shame, perhaps, but possibly necessary so they can get on with other aspects of the plot and characters more cleanly.

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Ned doomed House Stark. Or Robert did. Or Littlefinger or Lysa. Or Robb. Or, or, or...

Catelyn has a pretty small measure of guilt, compared to a lot of the others involved.

Catelyn was only made radical by events! Almost everyone else was radical before. Before Bran fell off and Rob went off.

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For me, it's a fairly substantial change to Catelyn's character, and one I'm disappointed in because Catelyn is the character that I find the most realistically-drawn by GRRM. It takes something away from her that's somewhat unique in your typical drama, and replaces it with a fairly standard story of the homebody, overprotective wife. At least, from those scenes. Fortunately, I guess once she's ready to go out of Winterfell, we'll leave this sort of thing behind and maybe move more faithfully into her story from the novel.

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One thing that comes to mind is the old gods and the blood of the First Men in the Stark line tying them to the North - it's a subtext that's present in the doom of Eddard and Robb and I'd guess has something to do with the former's reluctance. It could be played down in the series for whatever reason, leaving the job to Cat.

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It could be played down in the series for whatever reason, leaving the job to Cat.

Maybe but it would surprise me. Its a small but consistent idea throughout the novels. From the direwolf cubs to Rickard and Brandon's deaths. Adds to the air of danger.

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(and I hate to use this word) hysterical

You know, I was thinking about this while reading one of the recent feminism threads and I decided that despite it's derivation, sometimes it's simply the most accurate word to use as we understand it now. I think the only situation I would never use it is in reference to a female participant in a feminism discussion. /off topic

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Also to the OP, most people that hate Catelyn also hate all the other female characters in the books except for Arya, who acts like a boy. Shockingly, most of these Cat haters are men and boys under the age of thirty... hmm... interesting...

I didn't like her and am over 30. Was really annoyed when she returned as a zombie. I liked Sansa, Arya, Cersei etc. They were not whiny cows though.

I read some of the reviews on amazon and most of the negative ones focused on the lack of a strong female character. I thought that might have been the reason for brienne being a big ugly tomboy. A way for GRRM to stick it to the feminist critics.

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Killuncle,

Uhm. No, not really...

Hiver,

In the 15-minute-reel, I noted that in the godswood scene (which was extended from what is shown in this trailer), Ned notes out loud that if the king's coming all this way, he wants something from Ned, and they know what that is (i.e. make Ned the Hand)... and Catelyn tells him he can always refuse. Not an ironic or chiding way; it's said seriously.

She is against Ned having to go south from the get-go on the TV show.

ETA Our impressions of the reel, which discusses these changes in more detail.

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Cat is actually quite a complex character in the books, and her being portrayed as somewhat ambitious was a good nuance. This change also needs a substantial change in Ned and his background. Somehow they seem to make us believe that Ned Stark is more the veteran of many long wars, instead of being just involved in two rather short military campaigns - and only one of them as Cat's husband.

I'm not sure how Ned's own doubts about the whole Handship thing can be as strong as they are in the books. They are likely going to make this 'the guy is my friend, I've to do this' sense of duty. And this is not really Ned Stark, either. Ned goes south because his wife wants him to, because she wants to see her daughter become Queen, and because he wants to solve this murder mystery - both because he loved Jon Arryn as a second father and because the Lannisters wronged his wife's family (i.e. Lysa) in murdering him.

But Cat's line 'I knew they have done it, in my bones I know it' is at least a good sign for me that Fairley will be able to show us Cat's determination and resolve when things become more complicated. But if they start to go down the 'house wife' road from the start, I'm pretty sure the Catelyn in season 2 and 3 will be considerably less complex/interesting than the real one. She does all she can to find a peaceful solution to the war - first, when she argues for peace with Robb and his men, and then later on when she parleys with Renly.

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The change to Ned's character is minor, IMO. He could still be reluctant and in need of persuasion, only now it seems like the task of persuasion falls to Luwin alone instead of Luwin and Cat (this is my guess since I don't think we've had a clip of Luwin actually talking). He still seemed hesitant when Robert first makes his offer in person, and possibly ruefully cognizant of Robert's intractability when he's talking to Catelyn in the godswood.

As for the change to Cat's character, Catelyn is not the most important character in that obvious way Jon and Dany are, more than a few people say her main purpose is to report on Robb. Nor does she have the greatest plot arc like Tyrion or perhaps Jaime, the mechanics are pretty ad-hoc if not incoherent. She doesn't often turn up in collections of people's favorite lines or most memorable scenes, barring the obvious. Her character brings the human element to the table, she's the real human being of the story and the realization of her nuances, the craft of her character and consciousness, was her greatest contribution. I must say I don't see why they would make it a priority to supply later on what was lost in these early scenes if it wasn't a priority early on in the first place, and I personally am kind of thinking that later on her sense of duty and honor and her stiff upper lip will come off ... smaller and lesser in stature, somehow, but that's baseless guessing on my part.

Re. Brude's point about simplicity: pro-King's Landing Catelyn would be episode one, anti-King's Landing Catelyn would be episode two, if Bran's fall is at the end of the pilot anyway. So the audience would have a solid introduction before the change. I feel it could've been doable keeping things consistent with the books. What if the first thing we see in episode two was Catelyn begging Ned to not go, Ned pointing out that she herself said that he ought to accept, worried parental gazes at poor Bran's broken body? I think it could've enhanced the drama of it all.

I'm not sure what we'd do if we couldn't debate any more about what a disastrous harpy Catelyn is. Who knows what kind of nefarious developments might follow? PC and Mac users holding hands? Yankees and Sox fans singing Kumbaya?! ;) <--

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