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Lothlorian

Will the show end up revealing major plot twists before they should?

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Just wondering what the rest of you thought. Some of the unresolved things, particularly the theory of R + L = J, if they are true, would have to be at least hinted at during the first season of the show for it to make sense when it happens later. It being a show, a lot will have to be condensed, but some of the stuff that seems small needs to revealed for later events to make sense. In doing this, don't they risk letting readers know things that GRRM has kept vague or hidden for a reason?

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People may be able to (or at least think they can) intuit things like that from what the producers decide to keep in the show. *shrugs*

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Just wondering what the rest of you thought. Some of the unresolved things, particularly the theory of R + L = J, if they are true, would have to be at least hinted at during the first season of the show for it to make sense when it happens later. It being a show, a lot will have to be condensed, but some of the stuff that seems small needs to revealed for later events to make sense. In doing this, don't they risk letting readers know things that GRRM has kept vague or hidden for a reason?

Well, I don't expect D&D will uncover any secrets that GRRM has kept a mystery. We may get more evidence but we still wouldn't know anything for sure.

SImilarly, in theory, D&D probably don't have to do anything more regarding R+L=J. We already have a scene where Ned talks about Jon having "his blood". They can always point back to that scene in S6 (if we ever get that far). They probably will slip in something else but you can't say they have ignored the theory.

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About R+L=J ...im pretty sure D&D know the truth right know, as well as other answers. But they won't tell us, and we still have to wait..

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Maybe not quite the kind of spoilers you're talking about but there's no way they'll be able to make the revelation of Arstan Whitebeard as Barristan Selmy in a clash of Kings. There's a couple of other cases where GRRM uses the POV structure to have "mystery guests" in the books that will prove tricky in the TV show (but not impossible) eg Arya catching illyrio talking with Varys (they can just shade that one).

Another one that I was wondering about was the theory of Syrio being a Faceless man and existing as other characters in the book. This may not be the case but if it is then the director may want to make sure that the various actors carry some similarities over so that it doesn't appear to be pulled out of the hat.

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Maybe not quite the kind of spoilers you're talking about but there's no way they'll be able to make the revelation of Arstan Whitebeard as Barristan Selmy in a clash of Kings. There's a couple of other cases where GRRM uses the POV structure to have "mystery guests" in the books that will prove tricky in the TV show (but not impossible) eg Arya catching illyrio talking with Varys (they can just shade that one).

True. Those kind of mysteries wouldn't work so well. And they probably shouldn't try very hard to make them work. I expect most people will recognise Barristan in any S2 but hopefully he will have a beard. I'm sure some will forget who he is. Might be in inverse proportion to the amount of people who don't recognise Barristan in the books.

I think its best to just reveal Illyrio and have Varys in disguise. Again, most people will probably recognise Varys since its harder to hide visual clues like that.

The FM thing is different. The point about them is that they do look very different. So I don't think the show has to be concerned if people don't realise person A is also person B.

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The FM thing is different. The point about them is that they do look very different. So I don't think the show has to be concerned if people don't realise person A is also person B.

I was meaning more in terms of keeping the "suggestive" dialogue and in the case of the show, the body language similar. Of course if the faceless men are as good as they say they are, they can probably alter speech patterns and body language too.

I still hope we get to see Varys in his various disguises within the show. HAve him hanging around the background in various King's Landing scenes. It would be like a HBO version of where's Wally/Waldo :)

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I was meaning more in terms of keeping the "suggestive" dialogue and in the case of the show, the body language similar.

Right. Gotcha. Certainly possible.

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With the Barristan thing, I think there will be a different type of suspense for the people who recognize him and haven't read the books in wondering when and how Dany will find out his true identity and what exactly are his intentions toward her (Is he going to choose to side with her or decide to kill her in order to take the prize to become a lord of his own?).

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True. Those kind of mysteries wouldn't work so well. And they probably shouldn't try very hard to make them work. I expect most people will recognise Barristan in any S2 but hopefully he will have a beard. I'm sure some will forget who he is. Might be in inverse proportion to the amount of people who don't recognise Barristan in the books.

I think its best to just reveal Illyrio and have Varys in disguise. Again, most people will probably recognise Varys since its harder to hide visual clues like that.

Varys was in disguise, if I remember correctly. For the reader Illyrio was recognizable by Arya's description, but Varys wasn't. The scene also occurs before we learn that Varys is a master of disguises. This can be handled, I think. Barristan, I am not sure about. But his role is not all that big before he is kicked out of the kingsguard and with/without a beard and a changed hairstyle it may not be obvious. And it is not such a big spoiler anyway.

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I don't think revealing things will be so obvious. Remember, GRRM puts a lot of clues all over the books, but he still manages to surprise you the first time around, right?. Then you have an "Aha" moment. The Red Wedding is hinted heavily shortly before it happens and then it all unravels and Catelyn remembers all the clues, but I bet no one really imagined what was about to happen, even as it was happening.

For someone who hasn't read the books I guess it'll be just the same (and probably even less obvious as it is easier to overlook details and hints on TV as they come and go pretty fast). I really hope fans will keep spoilers at the minimum for those poor bastards who just recently discovered the books existed.

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But his role is not all that big before he is kicked out of the kingsguard and with/without a beard and a changed hairstyle it may not be obvious. And it is not such a big spoiler anyway.

Since some people knew who Arstan was when he showed up, I think its a different sort of spoiler from the kind people get really upset about.

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I'm pretty sure every reader of the books realized at once that Arstan was Barristan. Even their names are alike, and all he did to disguise himself was the beard. In the series people most likely are supposed to look through this, although neither Dany nor Jorah are going to recognize him. That is going to work perfectly, in my opinion.

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I didn't realize it on my first read, but then again I didn't remember his name at all. My reaction was: "Who is this Selmy guy? Why is this such a stunning revelation?" It was one of the things that I understood much better after my first rereading. ;) I'm impressed with how all of you could keep these secondary characters' names straight on your first read through. I sure couldn't, though fortunately it didn't hamper my enjoyment of the books, and it really made rereading the books so much more rewarding.

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