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Excerpt from R. Scott Bakker's The White-Luck Warrior


pat5150

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Will Amazon.ca ship to Europe?

Amazon.ca will ship to Europe and Australia (I know because I've ordered both Erikson and Bakker from them and received the titles promptly). Canadian postal charges tend to be on the high side. If shipping to the UK, you may pinged for VAT upon entry of the goods.

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Not @ non-man erratic because that wan't a spoiler, but please put WLW spoilers in spoiler tags in this thread or better yet just open a dedicated WLW spoiler thread and discuss the book over there once all you canucks finish it. Thanks!

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It just seems strange to me that if damnation was a certainty, that many would dare to practice sorcery. A lifetime of power for an afterlife of damnation?

Because its not a certainty except to those who practice the Daimos, people had gay sex and were bankers during the rule of the Catholic church when damnation was as certain for those things and yet people still did them. Plus the afterlife seems remote especailly if you're a caste-menial offered a caste-nobles life.

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Because its not a certainty except to those who practice the Daimos
Wrong. It is an absolute certainty in Bakker's world. Or at least it was; it's not clear whether or not Kellhus actually erased said damnation (though I think he did not).

For the Mandati it was because they choose damnation to save the world. It was a sacrifice. For the Cish it wasn't damning (or they didn't think so). For the anagogic schools a lot of them weren't real believers in the first place or were fine with sacrificing the afterlife for the now.

The thing about Bakker's world is that damnation is still a far away, sometimes scoffed at notion by many who aren't super religious. It doesn't slap them in the face and tell you it's real. We (the readers) know it's real because of what we've read, but most everyone hasn't had that direct experience with damnation. For them, it's as real or not as it was in medieval times - who knows if they're really telling the truth?

Except the Mandati, who knew it and did it anyway because the price was worth it.

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Spoiler alert:

The first "Death came swirling down" doesn't happen until page 218...

I'm pretty sure that the line in question was inspired by Homer's Iliad. That is when Achilles or Hector stick a spear into some poor bugger, "death comes swirling down", or the "unlovely night of death settles upon their eyes".

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£18 for expedited shipping to London. I'm a sucker.

The best thing about this however, is it justifies many additional book purchases since you're paying the shipping anyway. Consumer logic ftl.

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Wrong. It is an absolute certainty in Bakker's world. Or at least it was; it's not clear whether or not Kellhus actually erased said damnation (though I think he did not).

I admit it's been awhile, but I am not sure about this. I remember one of the chapter epigraphs mentioned the idea that if God writes the world's rules, and sorcerers cheat, then who wrote the rules of sorcery?

It seems to me, upon recollection, perhaps "damnation" comes from the mark - the mage creates a topos of his own soul. The mage becomes noticed and vulnerable to forces from the Outside, meaning damnation is more taking a risk. We also have no proof that anyone who worships the gods is saved either - unless I missed something.

I would be curious to see what the people of Zeum think of sorcery and damnation, not to mention the Non-Men.

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It seems to me, upon recollection, perhaps "damnation" comes from the mark -
Nope. We know that you can be damned without being a sorcerer or having a mark (being a whore, for instance). It's not exclusively part of the damnation. Though it's quite reasonable that sorcery does corrupt the soul like you say. So I guess in that respect the mark causes damnation, but it isn't the sole cause.
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Nope. We know that you can be damned without being a sorcerer or having a mark (being a whore, for instance). It's not exclusively part of the damnation. Though it's quite reasonable that sorcery does corrupt the soul like you say. So I guess in that respect the mark causes damnation, but it isn't the sole cause.

Sorry, wasn't trying to say it was the sole cause. What I meant was that what mortals think of as "damnation" due to sorcery is actually a side effect of sorcery. It amounts to the same thing, but without the moral factor. Sorcery isn't wrong, there may be gods who dislike it but perhaps the reason so many sorcerers seem damned is that the Mark is also seen in the Outside, where it attracts the attention of malevolent entities that then snatch the sorcerer's soul upon his death.

But I'm curious if there have been Shamans in actual recorded history, rather than a rumor. I know Akka and Esmi talk about the idea of the "God singing His own song" but I don't recall the story or appendices mentioning a shaman who walked Earwa.

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That was my take on it too, basically. That sorcery is damning not because of God saying 'thou shalt not sorcer' but that doing that damages your soul to the point where it gets put in the 'remnants' bin of the afterlife and thus is not useful fuel for the Gods. Or whatever your analogy is. I don't think that it's a 'you get snatched because you look shinier' but rather that the Mark permanently damages your soul and makes it unusable. Again, it's the difference between saying don't eat pork because it's unhealthy and don't eat pork because God says so. In this case whether you get damned or not is completely out of the God's hands; it's not a judgment call any more than trichinosis is.

Same thing with whores; my gut feeling there is that the whore's shell does something to the soul to damage it as well.

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I am still quite curious as to whether we'll see the Cishaurim return to the story or if they've truly been destroyed. Is there any "water" left in Earwa?

It is mentioned that Fanayal's rebel army contains Cishaurim so we'll most likely see them, which I'm glad about I've alway liked the Cishaurim.

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Its in the Judging Eye when Esmi is listing the problems of the empire she mentions Fanayal attacks something with Cishaurim I don't remember exactly what but she says "with Cishaurim no less." I don't no exactly were but its when she's talking about the problems becoming worse when Kellhus leaves how the cults are chafing and such. I think he might have attacked the road at Shigek and cut the Empire in two, but I'm not sure about that.

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