Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Brude

Game of Thrones/Borgias Throwdown

Recommended Posts

As far as major plot developments are concerned, The Borgias cannot be as creative and perhaps surprising to the viewers.

I think GoT and Borgias are in a similar situation there. Neither story is commonly known but if anyone wants to, they can get a good understanding of the story from the internet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think GoT and Borgias are in a similar situation there. Neither story is commonly known but if anyone wants to, they can get a good understanding of the story from the internet.

Not exactly the same though. More people will be willing to read through several condensed pages of history, but few I guess will decide to ruin their prospects of reading a great series by skimming a resume of some kind on ASoIaF. Also, we do not know the ending of the series yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not exactly the same though. More people will be willing to read through several condensed pages of history, but few I guess will decide to ruin their prospects of reading a great series by skimming a resume of some kind on ASoIaF.

I imagine that the vast amount of viewers will have no interest in ever reading aSoIaF? But will be as happy to read about spoilers for GoT as for the Borgias.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it really doesnt mean anything, but the Facebook page for Borgias has just under 20k people that "like" it right now, the Game of Thrones page has over 70k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it really doesnt mean anything, but the Facebook page for Borgias has just under 20k people that "like" it right now, the Game of Thrones page has over 70k.

Indeed it doesn't mean anything. GoT already has a fanbase because of the books. Such measurements like Facebook likes and IMDB ratings are only viable (and to a small extent at that) only after a show progresses enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 97-min pilot of "The Borgias" was leaked online several days ago (probably intentionally, to generate buzz for the show) and I assure you, it is in no imaginable way like "The Tudors". It is far more serious and eloquent, the dialogues are more refined and wittier, the cinematography and the production design is of feature-film caliber and of course, Jeremy Irons is superb and spearheads a vastly talented cast that includes (among others) Joanne Whalley, Sean Harris, Derek Jacobi, Bosco Hogan, Vernon Dobtcheff, Peter Sullivan, Simon McBurney and Colm Feore. The younger actors, especially Holliday Grainger, Lotte Verbeek and Francois Arnaud do a masterful job and share great chemistry. The show does take license with history but the drama remains compelling and complicated. Neil Jordan's direction elevates the whole thing to another level, especially with the epic atmosphere he succesfully creates. And the credit sequence and music is pretty cool too! I don't know if "Game of Thrones" will be better (and it doesn't really matter, as I'll watch both shows), but "The Borgias" is definitely a force to be reckoned with. Thank God they are on different times so that people can watch both series.

Almost 25 more days to go for the premiere! I can't wait!

*By the way, "Camelot", despite the abysmal first episode that was previewed, is oddly fun too but it can not, I repeat not, in any way be included in the same quality group as that of "The Borgias" and "Game of Thrones".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank God they are on different times so that people can watch both series.

Almost 25 more days to go for the premiere! I can't wait!

*By the way, "Camelot", despite the abysmal first episode that was previewed, is oddly fun too but it can not, I repeat not, in any way be included in the same quality group as that of "The Borgias" and "Game of Thrones".

Agree about camelot. Pff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen the trailer of the Borgias and I must say that it seems worthy production. The epoch and clothing is very well developed.

The first episode of Camelot, I have not liked. The only thing I enjoyed was the ass of Jamie Campbell Bower. :drool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pleased to hear the Borgias isn't the same as "the tudors", even though it looks (or is marketed) as such. I enjoyed the tudors for what it was but there was only really season 2-3 that felt like anything good - the rest was just decent.

On a pure interest level the Borgias wins in terms of interest as i know nothing about that family or Italy at the time and as such there'll be a bit of tension in so far as what happens in it. GOT, I know what happens and while i'm eagerly awaiting seeing it - i'm never going to get that "what's going to happen next" that i did with shows like lost or BSG. I have the books for that :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Season 1 of the Tudors wasn't very good, but the rest was quite decent. I think they hired much better staff writers starting on Season 2, or something. It was a big step up in quality. Better dialogue and with that, much more for the actors to work with, so it improved their performances (especially Natalie Dormer who went from pretty bad on Season 1 to one of the best parts of the series in Season 2).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Purely on a pilot level, since that is the only episode I have seen of "The Borgias", it doesn't only outmatch "The Tudors", who as you have all said, was an uneven series, both a success and a failure at different departments and for me at least the pilot of "The Tudors" was an utter failure, except Sam Neill's exquisite portrayal of Cardinal Wolsey, but also other critically acclaimed series ("Boardwalk Empire" or "Damages", which have such extremely film-like pilots and are both favorite series of mine, never reached the artistic heights of the pilot of "The Borgias"). Of course, I think responsible for the immense quality of the pilot is none other than Neil Jordan who wrote and directed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 97-min pilot of "The Borgias" was leaked online several days ago (probably intentionally, to generate buzz for the show) and I assure you, it is in no imaginable way like "The Tudors". It is far more serious and eloquent, the dialogues are more refined and wittier, the cinematography and the production design is of feature-film caliber and of course, Jeremy Irons is superb and spearheads a vastly talented cast that includes (among others) Joanne Whalley, Sean Harris, Derek Jacobi, Bosco Hogan, Vernon Dobtcheff, Peter Sullivan, Simon McBurney and Colm Feore. The younger actors, especially Holliday Grainger, Lotte Verbeek and Francois Arnaud do a masterful job and share great chemistry. The show does take license with history but the drama remains compelling and complicated. Neil Jordan's direction elevates the whole thing to another level, especially with the epic atmosphere he succesfully creates. And the credit sequence and music is pretty cool too! I don't know if "Game of Thrones" will be better (and it doesn't really matter, as I'll watch both shows), but "The Borgias" is definitely a force to be reckoned with. Thank God they are on different times so that people can watch both series.

Almost 25 more days to go for the premiere! I can't wait!

*By the way, "Camelot", despite the abysmal first episode that was previewed, is oddly fun too but it can not, I repeat not, in any way be included in the same quality group as that of "The Borgias" and "Game of Thrones".

Purely on a pilot level, since that is the only episode I have seen of "The Borgias", it doesn't only outmatch "The Tudors", who as you have all said, was an uneven series, both a success and a failure at different departments and for me at least the pilot of "The Tudors" was an utter failure, except Sam Neill's exquisite portrayal of Cardinal Wolsey, but also other critically acclaimed series ("Boardwalk Empire" or "Damages", which have such extremely film-like pilots and are both favorite series of mine, never reached the artistic heights of the pilot of "The Borgias"). Of course, I think responsible for the immense quality of the pilot is none other than Neil Jordan who wrote and directed it.

Edit: First posts on this board are about the Borgias. You are Neil Jordan, aren't you? :leaving:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edit: First posts on this board are about the Borgias. You are Neil Jordan, aren't you? :leaving:

That was funny, I admit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks, stay polite, and don't imply personal motives to others that you can't prove and so on. Just discuss the matter at hand, or say nothing if you can't be constructive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I saw the Borgias pilot, too.

VERY impressive. I hadn't realized until the opening credit roll that it was by Neil Jordan, so I'm not surprised by the quality level. The writing is excellent, as is the acting (Jeremy Irons...I mean, come on, can't go wrong there). As pilots go, it was a barn burner. It probably packed enough plot into 90+ minutes for any six episodes and if anything I wish it had moved at a slightly slower pace. One wonders what plot is left for them to cover for the rest of the season.

I'd rank it better than Tudors and Boardwalk Empire so far. It's a better pilot than Rome had, but Rome really improved as it went on. The dialogue is much better than in Rome, though. It will have to do great things to beat The Wire (okay, it won't beat it) or Deadwood, for me, which are probably at the pinnacle of series TV to me.

One major difference I noticed is that the central cast is much, much smaller than most of these dramas have been. It's almost entirely focused around Rodrigo Borgia and his immediate family, and those who come into direct contact with them. Jeremy Irons was probably in at least 2/3 of all scenes. I suppose more may enter the story, but Rome, Deadwood, The Wire, Boardwalk Empire all seemed to have multiple characters in multiple areas that were equal or near-equal as leads (as will GoT, I'm sure). Here, it's Rodrigo and his children or those immediately touching upon them who get all of the attention.

Nothing wrong with that, just a storytelling choice. Perhaps the story will open up later with more factions getting more time, or maybe Jordan wants to keep the action very focused for this story. It is called "The Borgias" after all, so it's maybe not surprising it closely follows them and them alone. I suppose "The Sopranos" is more the structural template, with Rodrigo in place of Tony as the central pillar of the show. (Is there any real difference in how they operate, too?)

Oh, and Urquhart, I was a big fan of "House of Cards" when that aired way back when. Another great, GREAT show, so it seems you have some good taste when it comes to series TV. Welcome to the board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and Urquhart, I was a big fan of "House of Cards" when that aired way back when. Another great, GREAT show, so it seems you have some good taste when it comes to series TV. Welcome to the board.

Thank you very much, Brude, for your warm welcome. I agree with everything you said about the pilot of "The Borgias" and I agree that it is a bit too focused, in danger of becoming monotonous, but that is always the risk when you have the Academy Award winner superstar Jeremy Irons as head of the cast. If you are interested, Episode 3 looks exciting too. Promo here:

As for "House of Cards", I 've strived to find a better mini-series and I 've failed. Ian Richardson's performance is indelible. And the sad thing is I found out about the trilogy only last year! Can't wait for the Kevin Spacey/David Fincher remake!

*Don't forget, 24 days to go for the premiere!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why was this thread moved to the GoT's forum? If this has to be the case, can someone create a separate thread to discuss 'the Borgias'?

Anyway...

I'd agree with everything Brude and our new friend, Urquhart, talked about. This is a show of high quality and I eagerly await more of the same. I'd only expect as much from Neil Jordan! :)

If GoT can attain a similar level, I'll be very pleased.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, when I read the thread title, my first thought was Cartman screaming, "IT'S ON!!!" in the Race War bit from the episode "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson." Don't know why. :smoking:

The Borgias looks good. Of course, we know how the story has to end...

Ezio Auditore assassinates them :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank God they are on different times so that people can watch both series.

I thought they were both on Sundays at 9PM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×