Huan Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I noticed something about the Targaryen family tree... after Baelor the Blessed died, none of his three living sisters inherited the throne. It passed to his uncle, the nearest male relative. So, say Lyanna and Rhaegar never married, then would that mean that after Viserys' death the throne should still technically pass to the Baratheon line instead of Dany?According to AWOIAF: Since the Dance of Dragons (the civil war between two of King Viserys I's children, Rhaenyra and Aegon II), House Targaryen has practiced a highly modified version of agnatic primogeniture, placing female claimants in the line of succession behind all possible male ones, even collateral relations.It seems that Dany wouldn't have a claim to the throne according to Targaryen rules, but if she's the LAST Targaryen, perhaps a different rule would apply to maintain the Targaryens on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masha Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 actually that's possibly when people have the most sex!You cut off my 2nd sentence - Short of spontaneously lets do it before we die in hopeless battle!I've read the House of the Undying part of ACOK and the part where Rhaegar is holding a baby kind of got me.I think that baby is Jon...call me crazy (I think it's far-fetched myself, but this IS GRRM) but he said his is the song of ice and fire. If it was Aegon, why would he say it? Sure he said there must be another...but I don't think he was counting Dany in that.Impossible! Jon does not look like Martells or has any Dornish looks! He looks like a Stark - Ned and Lyanna. And if its not her son, then why would Elia would be holding baby so lovingly as her own?! Granted Dornish are far more accepting of bastards and infideliites than the rest of 7 Kingdoms, but not to this extent! Plus baby Aegon was at least couple of months (if not a whole year) older than Jon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 According to AWOIAF: Since the Dance of Dragons (the civil war between two of King Viserys I's children, Rhaenyra and Aegon II), House Targaryen has practiced a highly modified version of agnatic primogeniture, placing female claimants in the line of succession behind all possible male ones, even collateral relations.It seems that Dany wouldn't have a claim to the throne according to Targaryen rules, but if she's the LAST Targaryen, perhaps a different rule would apply to maintain the Targaryens on the throne.Roughly generalising...Dany is the last Targaryen (known). It isn't a different rule, its the same rule but the next step.-> Targ males -> Targ females -> Sub-Targs -> Not-TargsThe Baratheon-Targaryen connection comes through a Targ female, so the Baratheons don't count as male Targs. They are sort of sub-Targs.But really, its just a made up justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestress Sand Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Impossible! Jon does not look like Martells or has any Dornish looks! He looks like a Stark - Ned and Lyanna. And if its not her son, then why would Elia would be holding baby so lovingly as her own?! Granted Dornish are far more accepting of bastards and infideliites than the rest of 7 Kingdoms, but not to this extent! Plus baby Aegon was at least couple of months (if not a whole year) older than Jon! GRRM has said in interviews that baby Aegon had the Targaryen looks, and little Rhaenys had the Dornish looks. Having a white haired baby would sure make him hard to hide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zed Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Impossible! Jon does not look like Martells or has any Dornish looks! He looks like a Stark - Ned and Lyanna. And if its not her son, then why would Elia would be holding baby so lovingly as her own?! Granted Dornish are far more accepting of bastards and infideliites than the rest of 7 Kingdoms, but not to this extent! Plus baby Aegon was at least couple of months (if not a whole year) older than Jon!Whoa, dude, calm down. What's with all the exclamation marks? :laugh: You misunderstood. Nobody is suggesting that it was Elia holding Jon. Since the woman whom Dany saw with Rhaegar isn't described, some people think that Dany actually saw Lyanna, Rhaegar and Jon. (And that Rhaegar, despite already having one kid named Aegon, wanted to name Jon Aegon as well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huan Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I've read the House of the Undying part of ACOK and the part where Rhaegar is holding a baby kind of got me.I think that baby is Jon...call me crazy (I think it's far-fetched myself, but this IS GRRM) but he said his is the song of ice and fire. If it was Aegon, why would he say it? Sure he said there must be another...but I don't think he was counting Dany in that.Per The Citadel: Prophecies, "The fifth room shows Rhaegar and Elia with the newborn Aegon, as confirmed by Martin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huan Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Roughly generalising...Dany is the last Targaryen (known). It isn't a different rule, its the same rule but the next step.-> Targ males -> Targ females -> Sub-Targs -> Not-TargsThe Baratheon-Targaryen connection comes through a Targ female, so the Baratheons don't count as male Targs. They are sort of sub-Targs.But really, its just a made up justification.You're right, a made up justification. But your point about Robert being descended from a Targaryen female is a good one. He'd have to have the last name of Targaryen to really be in line for the throne per the Targaryen rules, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleLitke Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 You're right, a made up justification. But your point about Robert being descended from a Targaryen female is a good one. He'd have to have the last name of Targaryen to really be in line for the throne per the Targaryen rules, right?Well, I think it's less about the name and more about the fact that he's descended from a female Targaryen. That's WHY the name is different, but that's more the point. Dany would have a claim over him (in theory) regardless of his gender because his claim is from a female Targaryen that is more removed from the main line. If Aerys had a brother who had a son, then that kid might have a claim over Dany by Targaryen law (I don't know the actual rules, just going by what you're saying). If a kid with Targaryen relatives isn't named Targaryen, it's because he's descended from a female somewhere and that's why he's not eligible. If for some bizarre reason a brother of Aerys had a son who took his mothers last name (can't come up with a compelling reason...maybe the mother was, say, a Tully, and the Tully line was dying out, so the child took the Tully name to better claim that seat...just throwing out random reasons), then perhaps that child would be next in line over Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azor Azai Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Jon Snow will die and be freed of his Oath...Jon Targaryen will be reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angalin Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Move along, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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