mummer Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 BTW, Lord Raul's profile is now showing as "Group: Banned", so it's likely that he can no longer respond to anyone here... in case anyone was really dying to know what he would say next. Looks like he lasted about a week on the board and managed to generate quite a bit of rancor in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daimonion Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Lol! I like people who shakes things up, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renasko Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hmm, didn't know they were going to make the relationship 'open'. Similarly, I wonder if they're going to dip into Margaery's off-chapter trysts. The potential for even more sex is amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It's not really an open relationship, though there's an open reference to it from a well-informed, mocking sort of character which seems to go over the heads of most who are party to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of Valyria Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 BTW, i don't think it's an homophobic statement. There actually are people who just don't like gay sex. They maybe never think about the fact that straight sex could be as disturbing to an homosexual as gay sex is to them.No. He pushed it beyond "uncomfortable with dudes kissing" when he called it "filth" and "for perverts." Those were homophobic statements and bigoted statements. NOW, to address something pertaining to the show... And why would Renly being gay affect the logic of Margaery's marriage to him? Marriage between nobility in the middle ages was largely political; girls were often married off quite young, to men they didn't even know (often regardless of their feelings). The Margaery/Renly match is made to strengthen the ties between the two houses, and give Mace a king for a grandson. GRRM has also said that Loras's family knows he's gay, so I don't see the Tyrells giving two of their heirs to one individual being a problem, especially when they plan on that individual being a king; that's probably worth two.The views on homosexuality in Westeros haven't really been set in stone, but judging that its always spoken all hush-hush like, I imagine its not widely accepted. Now as to why open knowledge of Renly being gay would affect the marriage; you are correct, such marriages were mostly political, and part of the politics is the heir. If Renly isn't into girls, the chances are slim that he'd father a child with Margy. No heir, no grandson for a king, etc.Also, I didn't know GRRM said the Tyrells knew about Loras' sexuality. When did that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfish Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I can't believe this thread happened :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j52y Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Ok, I have only read the books once, but I don't remember Renly and Loras's relationship being anything more than implied, and the only implication I can recall is in A Clash of Kings. Is this early inclusion of thier relationship the writers taking creative liberties with the story (which I have no problem with), or did I completely miss it when I read A Game of Thrones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Also, I didn't know GRRM said the Tyrells knew about Loras' sexuality. When did that happen?Do they? Margaery and Garlan obviously know, and its kind of a half open secret around court - Cercei, Stannis and LF all know - but I'm not sure that Mace or Allerie know. Though someone mentions Loras being hard to marry off, so maybe Mace does know. I just kind of see westeros as not really having a modern, binary, sense of homosexuality. Its not like Loras sat the family down in the living room one day and told them he was gay, to which Mace responded that he was fine with that and will now donate to the campaign against Prop 8 of the Reach so Loras can be the one to marry Renly and cement the political marriage. I think the family could totally respect Loras being gay and still fully expect him to marry some girl (and produce an heir too) if it became politically necessary, without seeing any contradiction whatsoever. (in the same way Renly or Lyn Corbray or Xaro Xoan Daxos are perfectly willing to marry women without anyone pressuring them into it. Politics is politics.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I can't believe this thread happened :rofl:Apparently you've managed to stay out of the downward spiral that is the "Opportunities to cast non-white actors" thread; if you hadn't, this thread would have been eminently predictable ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sparrow Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The views on homosexuality in Westeros haven't really been set in stone, but judging that its always spoken all hush-hush like, I imagine its not widely accepted. Now as to why open knowledge of Renly being gay would affect the marriage; you are correct, such marriages were mostly political, and part of the politics is the heir. If Renly isn't into girls, the chances are slim that he'd father a child with Margy. No heir, no grandson for a king, etc.Also, I didn't know GRRM said the Tyrells knew about Loras' sexuality. When did that happen?I don't see why Renly being gay would necessarily mean he couldn't father a child, unless he was just disinterested in trying. As a king, he would know it was his duty and probably best interest to father an heir, and would make an effort. As far as GRRM's statement about the Tyrells, somebody linked to it in SSM once, I thought. I'll see if I can find it.ETA: Here's the SSM link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanrn Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Well I hope atleast they leave in the "Loras come help me pray". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfish Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Also, I didn't know GRRM said the Tyrells knew about Loras' sexuality. When did that happen?It was in a fan chat he did on the Barnes&Noble.com site, IIRC.Apparently you've managed to stay out of the downward spiral that is the "Opportunities to cast non-white actors" thread; if you hadn't, this thread would have been eminently predictable ;)Hah, I actually read that one, but this thread's very title offers so much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieWife Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The scene goes on for a long time, too, actually.Needs "like" button. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Not sure if Ran is trolling or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brude Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I can't see how it's at all political to show gay sex between Renly and Loras considering the characters were gay in the books, too. No, you don't see them together, but the film/TV medium is different than a book. You have to show, not tell as much as possible. The fact is, the show is going to have far more straight sex than the books have, too, so why not show other important couples in the story as well. To me, if they avoided showing Renly and Loras, that would be more of a political issue for this show because that would mean they were avoiding it in some way.So they are gay, so we see them kiss or grinding on each other, whatever. It's not the end of the world. It does nothing for me erotically either, but it's a part of life and a part of this story so I see no reason to not show it. It's very much in the context of the story, considering how important the Renly/Loras relationship affects the political situation in the Seven Kingdoms. Had that not been the case, it's quite likely the Tyrells would have never backed him for the Throne. It was that relationship, secret or not, that led to Renly going to Highgarden and the Renly/Magaery match being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensuki Dorjan Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I have watched the whole series of Oz.I am prepared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixiehellcat Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (noob peeks in)Okay, I have a tangentially related but admittedly ignorant question, which may be due to the fact that I only just started reading CoK. Is Catelin's uncle gay? Early in CoK, when she arrives at Riverrun & is talking to her dad & he asks if Brynden has married yet, she basically says, 'you know better than that'. Which made me wonder if he was gay & the Tully family knew it but just didn't talk about it.ETA--to stay on the topic of the thread, Renly & Loras getting busy? Won't bug me in the least. lol. Just keeping it real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (noob peeks in)Okay, I have a tangentially related but admittedly ignorant question, which may be due to the fact that I only just started reading CoK. Is Catelin's uncle gay? Early in CoK, when she arrives at Riverrun & is talking to her dad & he asks if Brynden has married yet, she basically says, 'you know better than that'. Which made me wonder if he was gay & the Tully family knew it but just didn't talk about it.ETA--to stay on the topic of the thread, Renly & Loras getting busy? Won't bug me in the least. lol. Just keeping it real!We don't know if the Blackfish is gay, he could be or he could just not be interested in getting married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The Blackfish is a Hustler, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brude Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It is a popular theory that the Blackfish is gay, but when asked about it GRRM has neither confirmed nor denied it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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